Honor Muslims with U.S. Stamps!

[falxori 0]

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That's my point

the point is that they act when (and only when) they feel they themselves are in danger.

don't forget that in many arab countries the minority rules (jordan, syria, former iraq).
in some cased they managed (e.g jordan) and in some cases they didnt (iran).

what would you say about saudi arabia? formally they help the US fight terror, yet they dont really make an effort (if any) to eliminate it from their own coutry (even though many saudis have been killed lately in terror attacks...)
O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Trent 0]

Saudi Arabia is no exception. They're willing to let us hang out over there, but they have taken no leadership role in the ME to quell the extremism. Don't like that either.

Oh, hello again!

[JohnRich 4]

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I seriously hope you realize your gross overgeneralization only shows your narrow mindedness and gives no credit to your 'rants'.

My comments don't apply to those who disapprove of murder and terrorism - I made that clear - and that is not a "gross overgeneralization". My comments only apply to those who, as I said, celebrate the murder of innocent people by terror.

In the news last week:

"Iran's hard-line Guardian Council, in a surprise move, has approved a law banning torture two days after the measure was passed by the departing reformist Parliament. The council, a powerful oversight agency, had rejected an earlier bill three times, saying it violated Islamic law..."

New York Times

New York Times logon, if necessary:
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They just now, in the year 2004, got around to legally banning torture in their country! Gee, it's about time! And even getting this plain law passed, has been a long and contentious process.

[kallend 2,070]

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I seriously hope you realize your gross overgeneralization only shows your narrow mindedness and gives no credit to your 'rants'.

My comments don't apply to those who disapprove of murder and terrorism - I made that clear - and that is not a "gross overgeneralization". My comments only apply to those who, as I said, celebrate the murder of innocent people by terror.

In the news last week:

"Iran's hard-line Guardian Council, in a surprise move, has approved a law banning torture two days after the measure was passed by the departing reformist Parliament. The council, a powerful oversight agency, had rejected an earlier bill three times, saying it violated Islamic law..."

New York Times

New York Times logon, if necessary:
User ID: DZ.com
Password: DZ.com

They just now, in the year 2004, got around to legally banning torture in their country! Gee, it's about time! And even getting this plain law passed, has been a long and contentious process.

Most of the world feels the same way about the US's use of the death penalty, especially as applied to juveniles. Don't throw stones if you're in a glass house.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rocketdog 0]

I suppose this really isn't a big deal, but it somewhat maddens me that the government becomes involved in religious matters.

It's sorta like saying the pledge of allegiance in schools: by saying it (since it contains "under God") there is an implied favoritism shown towards Christianity.... but the church & state are separate.

Same with this. While it is important to acknowledge and celebrate multiculturalism, I think that the *federal* government should stay neutral & close the lid on the can of worms it opened *just my Soap Box*

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[newsstand 0]

No more Chirstmas stamps then.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Newbie 0]

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are you saying you think that you think every single one of the more than 1 billion Muslims worldwide wants to either fly planes into things and behead people, or celebrate such events?

I personally wouldn't say that, but if you were to dig into the Koran, you would find that terrorism, fighting, killing infidels until all the world sees Allah as the true God is written and studied and worshipped. Does every Muslim believe this? Probably not. Does every Christian believe the Bible is true? Probably not. But the vast majority does.

In Islam, any Muslim that does not believe the Koran is true is considered a traiter and treated as one. Read This. You can't argue with what the Islam book says... it is in black and white. I have a copy I would mail you if you want to read it too.

i'm sorry, but i honestly don't think that book is worth more than the paper it's written on.

If religion teaches anything, it should be that nothing is black and white, and i'm not referring to just Islam. Everything in this world, religious or otherwise, is open to your own interpretation, bias, misinformation etc. Who is Craig Winn that wrote this book?

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_18/b3679001.htm

Aside from being someone who suffered at the hands of the bursting dot com bubble, he's a salesman by nature, proclaiming that God came to him and gave him this mission - to expose Islam - as he "watched the second plane fly into the World Trade Centre".
He claims Mossad and the FBI gave him insights into Islam and it's teachings which is what he based his findings on. I can only guess going the usual route of scholastic research was too time consuming. If all of that doesn't seem a little odd, then it doesn't surprise me people can take what he has said as a given.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Malfunction 0]

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Aside from being someone who suffered at the hands of the bursting dot com bubble, he's a salesman by nature, proclaiming that God came to him and gave him this mission - to expose Islam - as he "watched the second plane fly into the World Trade Centre".
He claims Mossad and the FBI gave him insights into Islam and it's teachings which is what he based his findings on. I can only guess going the usual route of scholastic research was too time consuming. If all of that doesn't seem a little odd, then it doesn't surprise me people can take what he has said as a given

Yeah, and Paul that wrote 2/3 of the New Testament was also known as Saul, a crusifier of Christians.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a religion guru to open a book, see what it says, and be able to understand it. When the book says "kill all the infidels," how else can you interpret that? No religion isn't black and white and I never said it was... but writing is black and white (or blue and white, or red and white, depending on what color font you use).

I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

[Newbie 0]

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Aside from being someone who suffered at the hands of the bursting dot com bubble, he's a salesman by nature, proclaiming that God came to him and gave him this mission - to expose Islam - as he "watched the second plane fly into the World Trade Centre".
He claims Mossad and the FBI gave him insights into Islam and it's teachings which is what he based his findings on. I can only guess going the usual route of scholastic research was too time consuming. If all of that doesn't seem a little odd, then it doesn't surprise me people can take what he has said as a given

Yeah, and Paul that wrote 2/3 of the New Testament was also known as Saul, a crusifier of Christians.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a religion guru to open a book, see what it says, and be able to understand it. When the book says "kill all the infidels," how else can you interpret that? No religion isn't black and white and I never said it was... but writing is black and white (or blue and white, or red and white, depending on what color font you use).

you are basing what you have learnt from the Qur'an on what Craig Winn has "learnt" from it. There is inherent bias there.

Read this:

http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/tomuslims.html

Winn says in a passage he is helping out "Muhammed and Allah by cleaning up their grammar, punctuation and verbosity" for them. I mean come on, how ridiculous a statement is that? You may as well just say you interpreted what you looked at as what you wanted it to be. But of course he wouldnt say that, because saying so adds less weight to his arguement and belief, and his book sales will drop off.

It's authors like this, that lead to the beliefs the initial poster in the thread has, which lump all people together as one uniform group based on the fanatical views of a few. The world certainly isn't going to change for the better until we become more tolerant fo each other and realise that lumping everyone together like this is what the fanatical factions want, and just adds fuel to the fire and flames their cause.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Malfunction 0]

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Winn says in a passage he is helping out "Muhammed and Allah by cleaning up their grammar, punctuation and verbosity" for them. I mean come on, how ridiculous a statement is that? You may as well just say you interpreted what you looked at as what you wanted it to be. But of course he wouldnt say that, because saying so adds less weight to his arguement and belief, and his book sales will drop off.

Unfortunately, he is correct in 95% of his quotes. I have a Koran, I studied Islam in college, I was involved in religious debates, and his quotes exist. He didn't interpret it into what he wanted, it is there. How you read "kill the infidels" is up to you, but is tells me that someone is prejudice. Yes, there are also versus in the Koran that talk about love, life, and well-being, but the majority of the book is not that way.

There is a reason there are multi factions of Islam, the same way there are multi factions of Christianity. There are different ways to look at the book, but the book still says the same things.

I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

[billvon 3,031]

>When the book says "kill all the infidels," how else can you interpret that?

The bible says "kill all the gays." Are most christians homophobic murderers by nature as a result? Does that make christianity a religion of death?

[Skyrad 0]

1000 Marched through Luton in the UK only two weeks ago on a 'Muslims against terror' march. They were protesting against Al Queeda and extremists. But thats not as newsworthy as some psychos cutting off someones head.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[airdweller 0]

Just out of curiosity, Where does the Bible say
"kill all the gays"

------------------------------------------------------
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[billvon 3,031]

>Just out of curiosity, Where does the Bible say "kill all the gays"


Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

[Newbie 0]

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Winn says in a passage he is helping out "Muhammed and Allah by cleaning up their grammar, punctuation and verbosity" for them. I mean come on, how ridiculous a statement is that? You may as well just say you interpreted what you looked at as what you wanted it to be. But of course he wouldnt say that, because saying so adds less weight to his arguement and belief, and his book sales will drop off.

Unfortunately, he is correct in 95% of his quotes. I have a Koran, I studied Islam in college, I was involved in religious debates, and his quotes exist. He didn't interpret it into what he wanted, it is there. How you read "kill the infidels" is up to you, but is tells me that someone is prejudice. Yes, there are also versus in the Koran that talk about love, life, and well-being, but the majority of the book is not that way.

There is a reason there are multi factions of Islam, the same way there are multi factions of Christianity. There are different ways to look at the book, but the book still says the same things.

could you quote from the Qur'an then, where is says that Mohammed was "a thief, liar, assassin, mass murderer, terrorist, warmonger, and an unrestrained sexual pervert engaged in pedophilia, incest, and rape. He authorized deception, assassinations, torture, slavery, and genocide. He was a pirate, not a prophet."

This quote is taken from that link you sent, about the book, Prophet of Doom.
Please detail where it states these characteristics, as well as what version/translation you have taken that from, i'm quite curious to know.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Malfunction 0]

English and Composition Lesson 101:

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could you quote from the Qur'an then, where is says that Mohammed was "a thief, liar, assassin, mass murderer, terrorist, warmonger, and an unrestrained sexual pervert engaged in pedophilia, incest, and rape. He authorized deception, assassinations, torture, slavery, and genocide. He was a pirate, not a prophet."

This quote is taken from that link you sent, about the book, Prophet of Doom.
Please detail where it states these characteristics, as well as what version/translation you have taken that from, i'm quite curious to know.

Unfortunately, if you read what YOU wrote, you would see that it was pure substantial; an opinion. There are sections in the Koran that support that kind of behavior, and evidences from Muhammad's life that also support that statement, but the book of Islam is not about Muhammad, so you will not find that quote in there.

Furthermore, the reference quote that you responded to said "95% of his quotes", not all of them. Although I can easily find the verses in the Koran, I can find no verse to support everything he says about the man himself. If this is a source of tension and anger for you, there is therapy.

I would love to quote from the Koran and on Monday I will bring it to work. See, I have no internet access at home, only at work. So Monday, I will quote anything you wish me to quote. Deal?

I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

[Newbie 0]

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English and Composition Lesson 101:

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could you quote from the Qur'an then, where is says that Mohammed was "a thief, liar, assassin, mass murderer, terrorist, warmonger, and an unrestrained sexual pervert engaged in pedophilia, incest, and rape. He authorized deception, assassinations, torture, slavery, and genocide. He was a pirate, not a prophet."

This quote is taken from that link you sent, about the book, Prophet of Doom.
Please detail where it states these characteristics, as well as what version/translation you have taken that from, i'm quite curious to know.

Unfortunately, if you read what YOU wrote, you would see that it was pure substantial; an opinion. There are sections in the Koran that support that kind of behavior, and evidences from Muhammad's life that also support that statement, but the book of Islam is not about Muhammad, so you will not find that quote in there.

Furthermore, the reference quote that you responded to said "95% of his quotes", not all of them. Although I can easily find the verses in the Koran, I can find no verse to support everything he says about the man himself. If this is a source of tension and anger for you, there is therapy.

I would love to quote from the Koran and on Monday I will bring it to work. See, I have no internet access at home, only at work. So Monday, I will quote anything you wish me to quote. Deal?

Deal. I know what i wrote is my opinion, but what i quoted was what Winn had said was fact (according to him). I'm just curious more than anything to find out where in the Koran lies evidence that paints this sort of picture of Islam and Mohammed (not being familiar with the Koran i'm intrigued to see how he gleaned these facts). I know he said only "95% of the quotes" but that statement he made seems pretty self assured about what Mohammed and Islam represents.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Malfunction 0]

One thing I want to point out, Winn also used other sources not available to me. He used internal history resources as well as other Islamic doctrines. I can not defend everything he said, but I will bring the Koran and do my best to show what he said is in print.

I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire