Dumb Move, GWB

[Zenister 0]

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We are separated from God by sin

no. your separatedfrom God because you adopt dogma that says you are, and you chose to believe it, nothing more....

that doesnt make it true..

I am not, have never been, and never will be separated from God, no matter what your divisive literature says..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

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This spells it out pretty clearly and doesn't leave much for misinterpretation. I believe homosexuality will be seen as wrong 50 years from now by Christians just like it is now.

sort of like modern cosmology was 'seen' as wrong by christians for ages before the church apologized and admited they were wrong, or do you still believe in the crystaline spheres?

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[PhillyKev 0]

Once again, I respect your opininion and everything you're stating. I just don't understand it. And yes, for the record, I am biased and a bigot towards certain people. However, I hope that I restrict my bigotry for those who do things out of choice as opposed to how they were born.

[Zenister 0]

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>That's funny but, to me, this is a sad issue.

I'm serious. I am talking about splitting the civil/legal issues of a partnership away from the love/sex/religious ones. Two people can form a civil union; more than two people can form a corporation. I know a child that has three (legal) parents, and she has benefited from that arrangement.

the social control system (churches) in the US would absolutely hate that.
it undermines their ability to bond and manipulate people as 'social corporations' begain to replace the support structures churches have traditionally used to attract and keep members.

Allowing people to form larger legal 'family' support groups would transfer the 'lure of belonging' away from religious institutions, fewer participants equals less influence, so of course they will scream about how 'wrong it is in the eyes of God'

when all they are really speaking for is the church.

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[pajarito 0]

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How could they be able to handle this? If they never were in touch with it, never were explained what it is... They will never be able to deal with this.

My oldest son is 8. I also have a daughter who is 5 and another son who is 2. I also shield them from what I consider to be obscene on TV, on the radio, in video games, in magazines/books, etc. It’s one of my jobs as a parent. I’ll explain the complexities of adult life to them when I feel they’re old enough and ready.

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How I love to be a sinner and knowing God will always love me.

He does love you regardless. That doesn’t mean that he wants you to continue to sin. He does not love sin.

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Really, I do not want to live'n die like Jesus Christ!

You don’t have to. He did it for you.

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It's simply respecting my religion and loving to live.
Jesus surely is not expecting more.

He expects you to love the Lord with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself.

[pajarito 0]

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We are separated from God by sin

no. your separatedfrom God because you adopt dogma that says you are, and you chose to believe it, nothing more....

that doesnt make it true..

I am not, have never been, and never will be separated from God, no matter what your divisive literature says..

Good for you....drive on!

[pajarito 0]

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This spells it out pretty clearly and doesn't leave much for misinterpretation. I believe homosexuality will be seen as wrong 50 years from now by Christians just like it is now.

sort of like modern cosmology was 'seen' as wrong by christians for ages before the church apologized and admited they were wrong, or do you still believe in the crystaline spheres?

I don't know what church you think I belong to. I'm not Catholic by the way. I don't adhere to their policies or decisions. I'm reformed Baptist. I don't discount science for religion. I believe it supports my beliefs. I just look at it from the other side.

[pajarito 0]

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Once again, I respect your opininion and everything you're stating. I just don't understand it. And yes, for the record, I am biased and a bigot towards certain people. However, I hope that I restrict my bigotry for those who do things out of choice as opposed to how they were born.

You can't prove biological origin just like I can't prove that it's all a product of one's environment. It is, however, a choice to act on one's impulse however you cut the cake. You may think that view unfair but you can't deny that they make the choice to live that way.

[PhillyKev 0]

Won't go down that road again, we already have. Except to point out, once again, that some animals are homosexual as well. And last I checked, they didn't have the ability to make choices.

[christelsabine 1]

It's fully OK what you said. You believe in God. Me too.

But I will never love my neighbor, my boss, never come back to the belief I had before my husband died over nearly 2 years.

You belong to which church?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[pajarito 0]

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Won't go down that road again, we already have. Except to point out, once again, that some animals are homosexual as well. And last I checked, they didn't have the ability to make choices.

They're animals. Of course, they don't decide not to follow their animal insticts. We're humans and have that cognitive ability.

[PhillyKev 0]

So you're confirming that their instinct is to be homosexual. That implies a natural affinity they are born with, not one brought on by environmental conditions. And to follow that instinct is not making a choice, it is being who you are as nature intended it. Not following instincts would be making a choice. What they are doing is being who they were born to be.

[pajarito 0]

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It's fully OK what you said. You believe in God. Me too.

But I will never love my neighbor, my boss, never come back to the belief I had before my husband died over nearly 2 years.

You belong to which church?

I’m sorry to hear about your loss. Nothing worldly can replace that.

I am a Christian first and foremost regardless of denomination. As for denomination, I hold a lot of Presbyterian (PCA (conservative) and not PCUSA (liberal split)) views as well as Baptist. I currently belong to a Southern Baptist church, however due to my Presbyterian views, I consider myself to be more of a Reformed Baptist.

[pajarito 0]

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So you're confirming that their instinct is to be homosexual. That implies a natural affinity they are born with, not one brought on by environmental conditions. And to follow that instinct is not making a choice, it is being who you are as nature intended it. Not following instincts would be making a choice. What they are doing is being who they were born to be.

I’m saying that I don’t know. I think it might be either or both depending on different situations. Even if one has the natural tendency to be homosexual, however, he/she still makes the choice to act or not act on that impulse. That is what differentiates us from animals. I have the natural tendency to be an adulterer. However, I choose not to act on that impulse and be faithful to my wife. I know we’ve been down this road already.

[christelsabine 1]

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I am a Christian first and foremost regardless of denomination. As for denomination, I hold a lot of Presbyterian (PCA (conservative) and not PCUSA (liberal split)) views as well as Baptist. I currently belong to a Southern Baptist church, however due to my Presbyterian views, I consider myself to be more of a Reformed Baptist

Confusing. "You currently belong to a Southern Baptist...."

How can this work? According to what do you change your affiliation?

We are evangelic (that's me), catholic (roman catholic), w/o anything, small sub religions... cannot imagine to change my affiliation.

To confirm in one point: I am a Christian like you.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[pajarito 0]

I'm sorry everyone. I didn't mean to steer this into a religious debate.......again. I actually tried on a couple of occasions to bring it back on track. Christianity and its teachings just plays an integral role in the minds of most Americans concerning this topic and makes Christians a popular target in these threads. I don't think this debate will be won or lost based on Christian religious beliefs.

[pajarito 0]

Being Christian is more important than being Catholic or anything else. Denomination is secondary to Bible based theology. I could just as easily go to a non-denominational church and be happy as long as the Bible is used as the final authority. I may differ with their ideas as to whether you should be immersed or sprinkled during baptism or whether children should be baptized or just dedicated. I may differ with their ideas concerning pre-destination vs. free-will or both. As long as the fundamentals are emphasized, I can have my own ideas about the small stuff. We have to keep the goal in sight and not get tangled up in the weeds. I think there is way too much division in the Christian church (speaking collectively). I also consider myself Evangelic. I would change my affiliation immediately as soon as I felt like God was not at the center of my church. If His will was not being done and anything else took the forefront (i.e. the church system, power structure/hierarchy, peoples own selfish desires, etc.).

[PhillyKev 0]

I think you've demonstrated that the restriction in place against homosexuality is based on Christian belief. That is, in essence, one of the problems i have with it.

[pajarito 0]

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I think you've demonstrated that the restriction in place against homosexuality is based on Christian belief. That is, in essence, one of the problems i have with it.

The restriction in place that we're referring to is not restrictive against homosexuality. It is against the redefinition of marriage as being between one man and one woman. My Christian views are my own personal beliefs. It's ok that you have a problem with that.

[mpsniper98 0]

you implied that you had two mutually exclusive choices; one was to announce that your child's friend was wrong for being gay (to which you said "bs") and the other was to keep treating him as a friend of the family. my point was that in this situation, one can do both with a little tact.

NBFT

[skydyvr 0]

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I am not, have never been, and never will be separated from God, no matter what your divisive literature says..

Good for you....drive on!

All of pajarito's beliefs, he "chooses to believe in". All of Zenister's, "fact".

Ok, I think I've got it straight now . . .

. . =(_8^(1)

[christelsabine 1]

Where did I say I had two mutually exclusive choices?

My girl friend's son is gay (I did not refer to this with BS!) My girl friend is part of my life, her son is part of her and my life. Enjoying to be with both of them is what I like. My part of "a little tact" simply is asking him how his boy friend is. They are happy since more than 2 years.

Pls explain more clear or just let it like it is.

My girl friend's son is 24.His decision is made. By his own nature.

I fully do understand him: I love men too.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[pajarito 0]

It does appear so...

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[pajarito 0]

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I fully do understand him: I love men too.

I've always been sure that I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

[mpsniper98 0]

our relationship isn't working out christelsabine...i'm going to have to break it off. i can't find the words to make myself any clearer. just know that i will always think of our transactions fondly.

NBFT