U.S. fired on Iraqi wedding?

[billvon 2,991]

>Bill, how can you suggest that? Soldiers in a war zone taking fire >returned fire. How on earth can you say that they fucked up?

If a soldier hears gunfire, and opens up on a local school, killing all the students there, he fucked up. Perhaps that might 'teach the Iraqis a lesson' (or even kill the shooter in the process) but killing civilians to teach people a lesson was more Saddam's method than the US's. At least it used to be.

[rickjump1 0]

]According the BBC online yesterday, "In 2002, 50 people at a wedding in Afghanistan were killed in a US air strike". Surely, they have civic action teams or psyops warning the locals about this?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[pajarito 0]

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>Bill, how can you suggest that? Soldiers in a war zone taking fire >returned fire. How on earth can you say that they fucked up?

If a soldier hears gunfire, and opens up on a local school, killing all the students there, he fucked up. Perhaps that might 'teach the Iraqis a lesson' (or even kill the shooter in the process) but killing civilians to teach people a lesson was more Saddam's method than the US's. At least it used to be.

Well duh...
What a weird ass comment. If a soldier hears gunfire and blindly decides to open up on a school killing all the civilians, of course he's fucked up. If, however, a soldier hears gunfire coming from the school and determines that he's being shot at by the enemy using that school as cover, he has the right to defend himself and either shoot back or call-for-fire. How does your made up scenario relate to anything? Do you think they shot up a wedding party to teach the Iraqis a lesson? Your anti-Americanism really knows no bounds.

[Jimbo 0]

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How does your made up scenario relate to anything?

It doesn't. Bill is good using vaguely similar situations to attempt to get his point across, unfortunately though, vaguely similar isn't what really happened.

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Your anti-Americanism really knows no bounds.

Hey, it's trendy these days.

I'm willing to accept criticism of the war of the Iraq - but the constant negatives without any of the positives are really getting old.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[cyric77 0]

So your planning to celebrate your wedding in a War Zone. Your reaching on that reply.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Hey, it's trendy these days.

I'm willing to accept criticism of the war of the Iraq - but the constant negatives without any of the positives are really getting old.

Sure is for me as well. After the thread he started last week. sad really.

[rmsmith 1]

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anyway, believe what you want, i hope you'll never have to face the dillema we're facing...

Well, as a U.S. taxpayer I'm not happy with the illegal settlements in the West Bank and Gaza. Without U.S. aid Israel would not be able to fund the military protection of these settlements, and quite frankly I'm surprised with the presidents recent endorsement and financial commitments for these terrible policies i.e., "They've had this stolen property for so long that it must be theirs because they've had it for so long!" The world has become a small and dangereous place for Americans due to this miserable part of the planet.

[Skyrad 0]

Anti americanism, the new term that covers all sins. Its the new *Puts on German accent & jack boots* 'Your attitude has been noted'! *Off German accent* The worst charge a man can be labeled with post 9/11. I'm so SICK of people being branded 'Anti American' just because they are critical of US foriegn policy and don't swallow all the propergander unthinkingly. Billvon anti american???? Don't make me laugh!



(P.S Kept the Jack boots on as they kinda suit me)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[falxori 0]

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with the illegal settlements in the West Bank and Gaza

my family was driven out of Hebron in the riots of 1936-39, after living there for centuries, but no one seems to care about jewish refugees from arab countries.
the solution will be compromising, but you can't do that when there is no one to talk to on the other side

i don't think we have anything to do in Gaza and like most israelis i want to get out of there.
the situation now is that if israel pulls out, no one is willing to take over (PA, egypt, UN) and with the amount and types of weapons stored there, its very risky.

and as for the west bank, most of them will be removed, and some will be annexed to israel in exchange for lands.

the sad thing is that most of it was agreed upon in negotiations already, before Arafat decided that its either everything or nothing...
O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[PhillyKev 0]

Without getting into every issue in this thread and all the other supposition, I just have one comment. Although I agree that if they believe they were fired upon they have every reason to fire back, there were small children killed and they showed on the news the funeral for a famous Iraqi wedding singer who was also killed. Yes, the pilot probably thought he was being fired upon and made a mistake. At the same time, it probably was a mistake and really was a wedding, but we continue to deny that.

[juanesky 0]

Ori, Don't get worked up by bigots. It is not worthy.

British, the bastions of civility!....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[kallend 2,027]

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Hey, it's trendy these days.

I'm willing to accept criticism of the war of the Iraq - but the constant negatives without any of the positives are really getting old.

Sure is for me as well. After the thread he started last week. sad really.

I see we're back to the old "If you're not with us you're a traitor" line of thinking.

Disagreeing with the government is the most important right of an American.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[falxori 0]

no worries, i'm not worked up
but thanks for looking out for my mental health...

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British, the bastions of civility!....

only when drunk

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Hey, it's trendy these days.

I'm willing to accept criticism of the war of the Iraq - but the constant negatives without any of the positives are really getting old.

Sure is for me as well. After the thread he started last week. sad really.

I see we're back to the old "If you're not with us you're a traitor" line of thinking.

Disagreeing with the government is the most important right of an American.

Just wondering where you draw the line between disagreement with the government and encouraging our enemies with the constant personal attacks on the President?

[christelsabine 1]

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Just wondering where you draw the line between disagreement with the government and encouraging our enemies with the constant personal attacks on the President?

This sounds strange. Over here we really do not all agree to our government and especially policy of our Chancellor (except his decison made on Iraq matter)!

But, I never had the feeling criticising him would encourage our "enemies" ???

You ever heard about media, internet etc. finding its way all over the world within seconds?

It does not need any criticism within your own rows.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[kallend 2,027]

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Hey, it's trendy these days.

I'm willing to accept criticism of the war of the Iraq - but the constant negatives without any of the positives are really getting old.

Sure is for me as well. After the thread he started last week. sad really.

I see we're back to the old "If you're not with us you're a traitor" line of thinking.

Disagreeing with the government is the most important right of an American.

Just wondering where you draw the line between disagreement with the government and encouraging our enemies with the constant personal attacks on the President?

In your rush to the Second Amendment, you might take a minute or so to read the First.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,991]

>Just wondering where you draw the line between disagreement with
> the government and encouraging our enemies with the constant
> personal attacks on the President?

"Encouraging our enemies?" He doesn't need any help for that. Those pictures of prisoner torture were a godsend to Al Qaeda.

In fact, if someone had spoken out six months ago against the torture, it might have been stopped BEFORE there were hundreds of pictures of it. And while you would surely believe that such a person was aiding our enemies, I would consider that person a hero - and he would have denied Al Qaeda a powerful new tool in their campaign of terror. Speaking out against injustice is one of the things responsible americans do.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Disagreeing with the government is the most important right of an American.

Just wondering where you draw the line between disagreement with the government and encouraging our enemies with the constant personal attacks on the President?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Just wondering where you draw the line between disagreement with
> the government and encouraging our enemies with the constant
> personal attacks on the President?

"Encouraging our enemies?" He doesn't need any help for that. Those pictures of prisoner torture were a godsend to Al Qaeda.

In fact, if someone had spoken out six months ago against the torture, it might have been stopped BEFORE there were hundreds of pictures of it. And while you would surely believe that such a person was aiding our enemies, I would consider that person a hero - and he would have denied Al Qaeda a powerful new tool in their campaign of terror. Speaking out against injustice is one of the things responsible americans do.

So give me an example of criticism that you think goes too far. BTW if you look, you will see this thread isn't about Iraqi prisons as much as you like to dwell on that subject for political reasons.

[Jimbo 0]

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Hey, it's trendy these days.

I'm willing to accept criticism of the war of the Iraq - but the constant negatives without any of the positives are really getting old.

Sure is for me as well. After the thread he started last week. sad really.

I see we're back to the old "If you're not with us you're a traitor" line of thinking.

Disagreeing with the government is the most important right of an American.

How did you get that out of my post and Bodypilot90's post? I simply asked, or stated I suppose, that it's getting old with the constant stream of negatives without mentioning any of the good that's been done over there. Somehow you made the leap to "If you're not with us you're a traitor"?

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Disagreeing with the government is the most important right of an American.

I agree that the right to disagree with the government is absolutely one of the most important rights granted to the American people. Absolutely.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhillyKev 0]

Saw a news blurb this morning that a home video of the wedding ceremony has surfaced. Several of the people who have been identified as being killed are clearly identifiable in the video, including children. Hasn't been verified when or where the vid was taken, but the claim is that it was from that day.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Hasn't been verified when or where the vid was taken, but the claim is that it was from that day."

A wee bit more on this here Kev.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/3741973.stm
and also
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3741223.stm
There is video embedded, but I can't wiggle round our firewall to check it out.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[boudy 0]

No comment on alleged wedding incident - but I have a question regarding the claim made by many including right-leaning media people that Iraq news coverage is unfairly skewed.

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I simply asked, or stated I suppose, that it's getting old with the constant stream of negatives without mentioning any of the good that's been done over there.

Hopefully the reality on the occupation is much brighter than the news covearge makes it appear. My question is why isn't FOX news channel out there bringing us the positive stories? Why isn't this unabashedly pro-Bush network carrying the real "fair & balanced" stories of our success in Iraq instead of just bitching about the negativity of the "mainstream media coverage?" The same applies to Rush, Shawn, the dozens of other talk-radio clones, Republican leaning publications, etc,etc.

Who the hell is stopping those who believe or know the occupation is going well from portraying the real picture? Don't they believe there is a receptive audience in the US for coverage of the thousands of great Americans giving their all for their country & working for a successful, democratic, peaceful middle-east?

It seems all we get from the pro-Bush media is excuses, bitching and name calling (more negativity) about negativity in "the media." The best antidote to overly gloomy news coverage is to reveal the true, more hopeful reality.

Can it be it's just easier and serves their selfish interests better for Rush, Shawn, Fox News, et al. to stir up ever more controversy by attacking "liberals" and other war critics than to make the investment and risk to bring in-depth coverage of the good side of the Iraq story? If things are going well, somebody needs to quit arguing and posturing long enough to get the positive message across because, as George Will admitted on Sunday, even conservatives are beginning to consider the admisnistration's handling of Iraq as incompetent.

[PhillyKev 0]

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My question is why isn't FOX news channel out there bringing us the positive stories?

Well, we haven't killed ALL the Iraqis or turned it into a glass parking lot yet. Although that has been the call from many supporters of the war. So I guess pointing that out wouldn't be positive in their eyes.

[kallend 2,027]

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It seems all we get from the pro-Bush media is excuses, bitching and name calling (more negativity) about negativity in "the media." The best antidote to overly gloomy news coverage is to reveal the true, more hopeful reality.

It's a free country still, anyone with enough money can start a newspaper or buy a radio station.

The owners of most media outlets are very large corporations or wealthy individuals.

Guess which way they lean?

The left leaning media bias is just right wing propaganda.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.