PhillyKev 0 #1 May 21, 2004 There are some seriously f'd up people in this world. I don't care what situation I'm in, or how much I hate someone. I just wouldn't be able to do these things to another human being... QuoteThe abuses were said to include prisoners being fondled by female soldiers and forced to masturbate in front of them, as well as an Army translator having sex with a screaming boy 15 to 18 years old, an incident detainee Kasim Mehaddi Hilas said was documented in photos taken by a female soldier. QuoteAnother video clip showed five hooded and naked detainees standing against the wall in the darkness, each masturbating, with two other hooded detainees crouched at their feet. QuoteOne detainee said he was told during the holy month of Ramadan he would be released if he cooperated and was ordered to curse Islam. "Because they started to hit my broken leg, I curse my religion. They ordered me to thank Jesus I am alive." QuoteThe statements showed an overt anti-Islamic dimension to the abuses, with prisoners forced to renounce their religion, eat pork and drink liquor in contravention of Islamic religious tenets. Anyone who defends this shit as _just_ humiliation, not torture is almost as sick as the people that did this. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=2&u=/nm/20040521/ts_nm/iraq_abuse_video_dc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #2 May 21, 2004 Hitting a broken leg is torture... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #3 May 21, 2004 I am sorry but I simply don't believe that a few sadistic perverted enlisteds would get away with this for months if their superiors didn't want it to happen. What ever happened to an officer's accountability for what happens in his or her unit? At the VERY LEAST there has to be culpability for inadequate training and supervision. It seems to me that the enlisteds have been set up to take the fall.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #4 May 21, 2004 QuoteHitting a broken leg is torture... Raping them, forcing them to eat food which their religion condemns, and making them masturbate and ejaculate on each other is not? Sounds pretty torturous to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #5 May 21, 2004 There's a long article in the WSJ journal today detailing all of the reports and activities of the Red Cross going back to a month after the war started. They made reports directly to the generals in charge of the prisons about the abuse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #6 May 21, 2004 QuoteAnother video clip showed five hooded and naked detainees standing against the wall in the darkness, each masturbating, with two other hooded detainees crouched at their feet. Hmmm . . . I wonder if the prevalence of porn has had any negative impact on American society . . . . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #7 May 21, 2004 QuoteThere's a long article in the WSJ journal today detailing all of the reports and activities of the Red Cross going back to a month after the war started. They made reports directly to the generals in charge of the prisons about the abuse. There are many sad and distressing aspects to this, one of which is that for General Taguba, who wrote the report critical of the chain of command, this is almost certainly a career ending episode. The Pentagon doesn't treat whistle blowers well, even when they are right.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpsniper98 0 #8 May 21, 2004 it doesn't matter if their actions were allowed or not, they should take the fall for their behavior regardless. NBFT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 May 21, 2004 Quoteit doesn't matter if their actions were allowed or not, they should take the fall for their behavior regardless. You're right, but it shouldn't stop with them. If the people in command allowed or condoned that behavior, they will do so again in the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpsniper98 0 #10 May 21, 2004 maybe...people don't change much but, i bet if superiors were condoning, they'll think twice in the future. NBFT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #11 May 21, 2004 >I wonder if the prevalence of porn has had any negative impact on American society . Probably. But being in a country where the people you are interrogating are shooting at you likely has a much stronger impact. Especially when you are told "do whatever it takes to break them." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #12 May 21, 2004 Quotemaybe...people don't change much but, i bet if superiors were condoning, they'll think twice in the future. Why would they if they don't get punished for their actions? That's like saying any criminal would think twice before doing something again just because they got caught. No need to have a trial or send them to jail, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #13 May 21, 2004 QuoteA senior military official, briefing reporters on condition of anonymity, said eight prisoner deaths under investigation have been "classified by medical authorities as homicides, which involve suspected assaults of detainees either before or during interrogation sessions that may have led to the detainees' death." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040521/ts_nm/iraq_abuse_deaths_dc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpsniper98 0 #14 May 21, 2004 people, for the most part, do think twice about doing wrong if they get caught. punish the ones you can make a case against, of course, but my words were for those who you will never prosecute. they're feeling the heat right now i assure you. NBFT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #15 May 22, 2004 >I am sorry but I simply don't believe that a few sadistic perverted > enlisteds would get away with this for months if their superiors didn't > want it to happen. "Few?" We're looking at 20-30 people so far implicated in prisoner abuses, per the number of people in pictures/video and the testimony of released prisoners. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #16 May 22, 2004 Quote>I am sorry but I simply don't believe that a few sadistic perverted > enlisteds would get away with this for months if their superiors didn't > want it to happen. "Few?" We're looking at 20-30 people so far implicated in prisoner abuses, per the number of people in pictures/video and the testimony of released prisoners. OK, correction: I simply don't believe that 20 - 30 sadistic perverted enlisteds would get away with this for months if their superiors didn't want it to happen... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #17 May 24, 2004 This thing goes all the way to the top and started when the US declared that the Geneva Convention was not applicable in Gitmo and by denying the detainees any rights what so ever. Based on released Gitmo prisoners’ statements the abuse there is systematic. The General in charge of Gitmo was sent to Iraq to make the detention system more ‘efficient” and funny enough the torture stuff started soon after. AFAIK the guy is still in charge. It has also been reported that it was Gen. Sanchez who authorized that the military intelligence was in charge of all aspects in the prison. Looking at some pictures showing people parading covered in human faeces, reports of people eating same, boys being raped, dozens of suspicious deaths in detention etc.- in my eyes the US has completely lost it’s moral high ground. These are pictures that remind me of stuff that was done by people we fought in WW2. We also need to understand that people got “picked up” and were detained quite randomly and that 90% of people detrained at some stage were again released. So the people tortured and abused are probably mostly innocent civilians. I just read about how the UK military and bureaucracy behind the scenes is very upset about US tactics in Iraq – especially the “over whelming force” tactics. The toll on the civilians is so great that the hatred against the west is growing every day. Also saw a TV report a week or so ago how a World War cemetery in Gaza for UK and Australian soldiers has been totally vandalised (never happened before over decades) and was plastered with revenge notices showing the abuse pictures. Al Qaeda recruiters are having a field day in the Middle East. I’ll bet you we will soon see a number of terrorist attacks around the world. I have just had a holiday and done some travelling around the country – the growth in anti-American sentiment down here is amazing (and this is one of the most pro-American countries in the world). So what has the Bush administration achieved by its actions: - While there was no considerable Al-Qaeda presence in Iraq pre-War – the place is now full of it. - Al Qaeda and related organisations are having a field day recruiting the next 9/11 terrorists in the Middle East. - Iraq is a shambles and will most likely end up breaking into 3 parts. In the north the Kurds who will destabilise the US and NATO ally Turkey. The middle and western Sunni dominated part aligned with Syria and the South dominated by Iran. Maybe even the whole country dominated by Iran (as the Shiite’s are in the majority). - Anti-American sentiment around the world (and not just in Muslim countries) is palatable. Many Pro-American governments who are part of the coalition of the willing are standing to lose elections due to this mess. - US intelligence has lost any credibility. They were fooled by people who were known to be fraudsters (Chalabi & Co.). And the great irony is that the Iranians might have arranged the whole thing. - It will be impossible for many years for the US to assemble any efficient “coalitions” for armed conflict. - The influence of the US has taken major damage. - Terrorism will most likely increase. - And the whole thing has cost about 800 American and many thousands of Iraqi lives. If Americans have any brains they get rid of Bush and his administration. The damage done by these folks will hurt the US and its Allies for many years to come.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 80 #18 May 24, 2004 QuoteThis thing goes all the way to the top. As one of our best political satirists sees it...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
