bodypilot90 0 #1 May 24, 2004 RAMADI, Iraq - A videotape obtained Sunday by Associated Press Television News captures a wedding party that survivors say was later attacked by U.S. planes early Wednesday, killing up to 45 people. The dead included the cameraman, Yasser Shawkat Abdullah, hired to record the festivities, which ended Tuesday night before the planes struck. The U.S. military says it is investigating the attack, which took place in the village of Mogr el-Deeb about five miles from the Syrian border, but that all evidence so far indicates the target was a safehouse for foreign fighters. "There was no evidence of a wedding: no decorations, no musical instruments found, no large quantities of food or leftover servings one would expect from a wedding celebration," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said Saturday. "There may have been some kind of celebration. Bad people have celebrations, too." But video that APTN shot a day after the attack shows fragments of musical instruments, pots and pans and brightly colored beddings used for celebrations, scattered around the bombed out tent. The wedding videotape shows a dozen white pickup trucks speeding through the desert escorting the bridal car — decorated with colorful ribbons. The bride wears a Western-style white bridal dress and veil. The camera captures her stepping out of the car but does not show a close-up. An AP reporter and photographer, who interviewed more than a dozen survivors a day after the bombing, were able to identify many of them on the wedding party video — which runs for several hours. APTN also traveled to Mogr el-Deeb, 250 miles west of Ramadi, the day after the attack to film what the survivors said was the wedding site. A devastated building and remnants of the tent, pots and pans could be seen, along with bits of what appeared to be the remnants of ordnance, one of which bore the marking "ATU-35," similar to those on U.S. bombs. A water tanker truck can be seen in both the video shot by APTN and the wedding tape obtained from a cousin of the groom. The singing and dancing seems to go on forever at the all-male tent set up in the garden of the host, Rikad Nayef, for the wedding of his son, Azhad, and the bride Rutbah Sabah. The men later move to the porch when darkness falls, apparently taking advantage of the cool night weather. Children, mainly boys, sit on their fathers' laps; men smoke an Arab water pipe, finger worry beads and chat with one another. It looks like a typical, gender-segregated tribal desert wedding. As expected, women are out of sight - but according to survivors, they danced to the music of Hussein al-Ali, a popular Baghdad wedding singer hired for the festivities. Al-Ali was buried in Baghdad on Thursday. Prominently displayed on the videotape was a stocky man with close-cropped hair playing an electric organ. Another tape, filmed a day later in Ramadi and obtained by APTN, showed the musician lying dead in a burial shroud — his face clearly visible and wearing the same tan shirt as he wore when he performed. As the musicians played, young men milled about, most dressed in traditional white robes. Young men swayed in tribal dances to the monotonous tones of traditional Arabic music. Two children — a boy and a girl — held hands, dancing and smiling. Women are rarely filmed at such occasions, and they appear only in distant glimpses. Kimmitt said U.S. troops who swept through the area found rifles, machine guns, foreign passports, bedding, syringes and other items that suggested the site was used by foreigners infiltrating from Syria. The videotape showed no weapons, although they are common among rural Iraqis. Kimmitt has denied finding evidence that any children died in the raid although a "handful of women" — perhaps four to six — were "caught up in the engagement." "They may have died from some of the fire that came from the aircraft," he told reporters Friday. However, an AP reporter obtained names of at least 10 children who relatives said had died. Bodies of five of them were filmed by APTN when the survivors took them to Ramadi for burial Wednesday. Iraqi officials said at least 13 children were killed. Four days after the attack, the memories of the survivors remain painful — as are their injuries. Haleema Shihab, 32, one of the three wives of Rikad Nayef, said that as the first bombs fell, she grabbed her seven-month old son, Yousef, and clutching the hands of her five-year-old son, Hamza, started running. Her 15-year-old son, Ali, sprinted alongside her. They managed to run for several yards when she fell — her leg fractured. "Hamza was yelling, 'mommy,'" Shihab, recalled. "Ali said he was hurt and that he was bleeding. That's the last time I heard him." Then another shell fell and injured Shihab's left arm. "Hamza fell from my hand and was gone. Only Yousef stayed in my arms. Ali had been hit and was killed. I couldn't go back," she said from her hospital bed in Ramadi. Her arm was in a cast. She and her stepdaughter, Iqbal — who had caught up with her — hid in a bomb crater. "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise," Shihab said. Soon American soldiers came. One of them kicked her to see if she was alive, she said. "I pretended I was dead so he wouldn't kill me," said Shihab. She said the soldier was laughing. When Yousef cried, the soldier said: "'No, stop," said Shihab. Fourteen-year-old Moza, Shihab's stepdaughter, lies on another bed of the hospital room. She was hurt in the leg and cries. Her relatives haven't told her yet that her mother, Sumaya, is dead. "I fear she's dead," Moza said of her mother. "I'm worried about her." Moza was sleeping on one side of the porch next to her sisters Siham, Subha and Zohra while her mother slept on the other end. There were many others on the porch, her cousins, stepmothers and other female relatives. When the first shell fell, Moza and her sisters, Subha, Fatima and Siham ran off together. Moza was holding Subha's hand. "I don't know where Fatima and my mom were. Siham got hit. She died. I saw Zohra's head gone. I lost consciousness," said Moza, covering her mouth with the end of her headscarf. Her sister Iqbal, lay in pain on the bed next to her. Her other sister, Subha, was on the upper floor of the hospital, in the same room with two-year-Khoolood. Her small body was bandaged and a tube inserted in her side drained her liver. Her ankle was bandaged. A red ribbon was tied to her curly hair. Only she and her older brother, Faisal, survived from their immediate family. Her parents and four sisters and brothers were all killed. In all, 27 members of Rikad Nayef's extended family died — most of them children and women, the family said. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_attack&cid=540&ncid=716 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #2 May 24, 2004 fuck.It's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #3 May 24, 2004 That must have been the bodies of the infants brigade of the Iraqi foriegn legion I saw being buried then............So glad we cleared that one up. Yea, FuckWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #4 May 24, 2004 US Credibilty takes another step down._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #5 May 24, 2004 Am I misinterpreting the subject line, or does it seem to say the opposite of what the story indicates? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #6 May 24, 2004 it reminds me of something I once heard.... Q) How can you tell if they're VC? A)If they run they're VC, Shoot them....If they stand still they're cleaver VC, Shoot them. If they're dead and Iraqi guess they must be insurgents or foreign fighters.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #7 May 24, 2004 QuoteAm I misinterpreting the subject line, or does it seem to say the opposite of what the story indicates? didn't you see the 1% of the article (comments from the US military) that he bolded? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #8 May 24, 2004 >Am I misinterpreting the subject line, or does it seem to say the >opposite of what the story indicates? It does indeed say the opposite. Often, people read news stories and pick out the one or two sentences that support their position while ignoring the balance of the article. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #9 May 24, 2004 >If they're dead and Iraqi guess they must be insurgents or foreign fighters. Including, presumably, these insurgents. (Warning: graphic.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #10 May 25, 2004 Quote>If they're dead and Iraqi guess they must be insurgents or foreign fighters. Including, presumably, these insurgents. (Warning: graphic.) I don't speak Spanish. Are those aborted babies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #11 May 25, 2004 That's disgusting. That's a picture of babies reported to have been killed in the attack on the (insurgent headquarters)/(wedding) (take your pick). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #12 May 25, 2004 QuoteThat's disgusting. That's a picture of babies reported to have been killed in the attack on the (insurgent headquarters)/(wedding) (take your pick). Wendy W. Damn Wendy, lighten up. I said I didn't speak Spanish. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #13 May 25, 2004 QuoteIf they're dead and Iraqi guess they must be insurgents or foreign fighters. Including, presumably, these insurgents. (Warning: graphic.) FALLUJAH, Iraq (AFP) — A US Marine general dismissed claims Thursday that 40 people killed in western Iraq were wedding guests, insisting that those targeted were men of military age camped out in the desert. "How many people go to the desert 10 miles (16 kilometers) from the Syrian border and hold a wedding many miles from the nearest city," General James Mattis asked rhetorically. "There were two dozen military-aged males," said Mattis, who commands marines patroling Al-Anbar province where the remote border area is located. Iraqis have claimed US forces launched an air strike in the western city of Qaim Wednesday killing about 40 people who had attended a wedding party, but the US coalition said the men were killed when a helicopter fired on a house suspected of housing foreign fighters. Asked about footage suggesting women and children were killed in the airstrike, Mattis said: "I have not seen the pictures, but bad things happen in war." He insisted, however that it was anti-coalition forces and not US troops who needed to apologize. "I never saw a marine hide behind a woman or a child. I don't have to apologize for the conduct of my men." "It is the enemy who owes the entire world an apology," he told journalists, pointing to the beheading of American businessman Nicholas Berg. "I don't have to dignify their allegations" that US troops attacked wedding guests, he said at a military installation on the outskirts of Fallujah, 50 kilometers (30 miles) west of Baghdad. He also said the strike conducted at 3 am Wednesday (2300 Tuesday) did not involve marines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #14 May 25, 2004 Not everyone lives in a city, this was at a village, belive it or not even people in villages get married. As for the actual wedding itself, I think cultrual ignorance is playing a hand in the interpretation of events. Unlike in the US and the west Muslim weddings go on for days if not weeks with different ceromonies happening on different days. Feast like banquets do not occur at each stage. Musicians may or may not be present and the same goes with decorations. Mattis may not have seen the pictures of the dead women and children but the rest of the world including me did. So Syrian passports were found, well thats hardly suprising since it was so close to the boarder, don't you have friends that live further than ten miles away? As for the now lame excuse for dead children and women (they were being used as a shield) I never saw a picture of anyone doing that, if its happening so much then why haven't we got one picture of it happening? It implies that Muslims are some how Untermenschen that do not care about their women and children. Its also idiotic to suggest as the world knows (and turns a blind eye) to US forces killing women and children. What would be the point of trying it or trying to make an apothetic world give a shit about yet another dead child? Also what the hell has the nasty ending of Nick Bergs life got to do with a poeple celibrating a wedding party at the other end of the country? Especialy as they have made arrests of the alledged people involved in his death. This action was inexcusable. Its a good job that US soldiers canot be procecuted for war crimes outside of the US millitary because if they could the jails would surely be full.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #15 May 25, 2004 Quoteinsisting that those targeted were men of military age camped out in the desert. Hmmm, you mean they were around the same age as when people get married? Every wedding I've been to in the past 10 years had a majority o fmilitary aged guests. Quote"How many people go to the desert 10 miles (16 kilometers) from the Syrian border and hold a wedding many miles from the nearest city," Maybe people who don't live in the city. It was a village that was attacked, not a bunch of tents. And just maybe they had Syrian relatives they wanted to attend the wedding. Quote"I don't have to dignify their allegations" Well, supposedly in a month you will have to report to the new Iraqi gov't. They may be interested in your response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #16 May 25, 2004 Actualy I heard in the news last night that even after the 'handover' US forces will remain immune from proscecution.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #17 May 25, 2004 Every argument we have against it being a wedding is based on the fact that Americans know DICK about middle eastern culture. If I hear "Who does this at a wedding?" and "Who does that at a wedding?" as the primary arguments against this being a wedding, despite the video and physical evidence to the contrary, I'm going to SCREAM!!! Americans are so fucking elitist and nationalist, sometimes I really can't stand us. Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #18 May 25, 2004 >"How many people go to the desert 10 miles (16 kilometers) from >the Syrian border and hold a wedding many miles from the nearest > city," General James Mattis asked rhetorically. We used to do that all the time. We drive 70-80 miles to party in the desert. No one there, you can build bonfires, drive off-road etc. And we were males of military age! Good thing we weren't Iraqis. >Asked about footage suggesting women and children were killed in > the airstrike, Mattis said: "I have not seen the pictures, but bad > things happen in war." Agreed. If we are the good guys, then we try to be the ones NOT killing women and children. We prove we are better than our enemies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #19 May 25, 2004 Here is the really sad part. There is all this evidence that yes indeed we fucked up and killed Children. There is still people trying to hide the facts. There is pictures even a video but people still argue that we did the right thing. Thank god there is enough proof this time, But it makes me wonder how many times we lie to cover our fuckups. There isn’t always video to prove what happened. It is truly sad that we can’t trust our own people, and also how some of us in the name of patriotism will try to make us right even when we are so wrong.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #20 May 25, 2004 QuoteNot everyone lives in a city, this was at a village, belive it or not even people in villages get married. As for the actual wedding itself, I think cultrual ignorance is playing a hand in the interpretation of events. it may or may not. I don' t have time to find it but I saw pictures of what was found there, was a very high end sat phone, medical supplies for what look like maybe a company level or a small battalion level aid station. Weapons, cash stockpile, ammo. It seems to me that at least some of the people at the "meeting" did not have clean hands. QuoteAs for the now lame excuse for dead children and women (they were being used as a shield) I never saw a picture of anyone doing that, do they not hide in holy places, hide arms ect. They have different values, females do not hold high value. QuoteMattis may not have seen the pictures of the dead women and children but the rest of the world including me did what I am saying is it could be a set up from the terrorist. If they chop off a guys head for fun on video chanting praises is it not a possibility? QuoteThis action was inexcusable. Its a good job that US soldiers canot be procecuted for war crimes outside of the US millitary because if they could the jails would surely be full. You know that for sure, Have you been there. It have been a extremely bad field call, or it may have prevented a attack on Iraqi and US soft targets From the men I served with, they were professional, well trained and highly disciplined. maybe you been duped by the leftwing press. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #21 May 25, 2004 QuoteIts a good job that US soldiers canot be procecuted for war crimes outside of the US millitary because if they could the jails would surely be full. It's a good thing you are in the comfort of your own home and not in combat AT THIS MOMENT... BEcause you might not be running your mouth so quickly.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #22 May 25, 2004 QuoteIncluding, presumably, these insurgents. (Warning: graphic.) And you know for sure where those pictures came from?? You are as guilty as spreading shit as the Al Jazeer press.. Complete b.s.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #23 May 25, 2004 Quote Asked about footage suggesting women and children were killed in the airstrike, Mattis said: "I have not seen the pictures, but bad things happen in war." Wow, I don't know what I was getting upset about - that's great logic, never mind. [/sarcasm] Is that really how military type think? Ok, then swap places: we have a foreign army on our shores, your family wants to hold a wedding away from where suicide bombings are happening on a daily basis, you have to be armed to protect yourself and your family still gets killed and you have to hear propaganda like this to justify their unnessary death. Why do I think you wouldn't have the same reaction? Just because someone has a gun in Iraq doesn't mean they are anti-american...maybe they are just gun proponents over there that are trying to get some american civil rights for themself??? Quote"How many people go to the desert 10 miles (16 kilometers) from the Syrian border and hold a wedding many miles from the nearest city," General James Mattis asked rhetorically. How many people build an airport with a full infrastructure 75 miles from the nearest large city and have a fleet of airplanes that could deposit people, cargo or weapons in the nearby city? Yup, a foreign army could mistake a dropzone as a military target - on top of that, they could think all those tents are the military people in training. Also, most DZs I know would have people that have a small amount of weapons in their car._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #24 May 25, 2004 Quoteyour family wants to hold a wedding away from where suicide bombings are happening on a daily basis, you have to be armed to protect yourself Using that logic... I know I'm still in a war zone, there is still a curfew, but I'm going to break the curfew and fire weapons into the air... I should not expect return fire? It may have been a wedding, sure... If it was it is a great tragedy, but was still likely engaged within the ROE. It might have been staged... it might have been an insurgent's wedding... There is a cultural difference... if we take out a civilian it is more than likely a mistake... they don't give a shit about civilians... we try to respect their holy sites, the disrespect them as a matter of routine. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #25 May 25, 2004 QuoteQuoteIncluding, presumably, these insurgents. (Warning: graphic.) And you know for sure where those pictures came from?? You are as guilty as spreading shit as the Al Jazeer press.. Complete b.s.. Rhino This from the guy who thinks the confirmed pictures from Abu Ghraib are fake and the whole thing is made up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
