Video Shows Iraq Wedding Celebration might not be as it was said to be

[Darius11 12]

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do they not hide in holy places, hide arms ect. They have different values, females do not hold high value.

Wow so that’s what it meant when they said that mothers are to be so respected that even haven is below there feet.
I don’t even know what to say to someone who thinks they know something when they have no clue. Before you tell me that the woman ware vales keep in mind that in other cultures they might think that the ultimate disrespect to a woman is to judge her by her boobs and not her mind.

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what I am saying is it could be a set up from the terrorist. If they chop off a guys head for fun on video chanting praises is it not a possibility

I think since there is people among our troops who get off on torturing prisoners maybe killing a couple of innocent people wouldn’t bother them either. I don’t think that but if that’s your logic it makes that statement just as valid.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[bodypilot90 0]

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Using that logic... I know I'm still in a war zone, there is still a curfew, but I'm going to break the curfew and fire weapons into the air... I should not expect return fire?

It may have been a wedding, sure... If it was it is a great tragedy, but was still likely engaged within the ROE.

It might have been staged... it might have been an insurgent's wedding...

There is a cultural difference... if we take out a civilian it is more than likely a mistake... they don't give a shit about civilians... we try to respect they holy sites, the disrespect them as a matter of routine.

so true.

[kallend 2,027]

This is just a "he said-she said" situation. You may as well argue about angels on the head of a pin.

Quite likely the unequivocal truth will never come out.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,006]

> Complete b.s..

Right. We rape young boys, torture men, women and children, and have bombed weddings before, but we would never do something like this. In fact, Iraqis are probably killing their own kids just to make the US look bad.

Well, I gotta say I'm glad that most people do not think like you. We are Americans - and we do the right thing. When we make mistakes, we fix them. We don't cover them up. We admit them and we move on because we are better than the terrorists; we are on the side of truth. You might feel patriotic pride swelling in your chest as you listen to the speeches of our president claiming we are pure as the driven snow, but I would be ashamed to be part of a country that never admits it makes mistakes, and is willing to cover up things like this.

Fortunately, most people have a higher opinion of the US than you do. We are better than this - and we _will_ treat the Iraqis better in the future, because we place a high value on human rights and freedom.

[jdhill 0]

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We rape young boys

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I don't recall any of the allegations against US troops being rape... IIRC, it was Iraqis that have been accused of doing that.

The prison abuses were and are inexcusable... That dose not mean that we knowingly attacked an innocent wedding...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[wmw999 2,453]

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That dose not mean that we knowingly attacked an innocent wedding...

I don't think anyone is accusing us of knowingly attacking an innocent wedding. The worst we're accused of is carelessly doing so (which is way different), and trying to negate it or cover it up.

I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. But it looks pretty unequivocal that there were a lot of dead civilians and clear noncombatants from there, that are attributed to being at a wedding.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 2,027]

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We rape young boys

\

I don't recall any of the allegations against US troops being rape... IIRC, it was Iraqis that have been accused of doing that.

The prison abuses were and are inexcusable... That dose not mean that we knowingly attacked an innocent wedding...

J

The prison abuses were covered up for months before the pictures got leaked.

My Lai was covered up for months before a whistle blower leaked the truth. The Army, courtesy of Major Colin Powell, tried to cover that up.

So why do you have confidence that there is no cover up going on now?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,006]

>I don't recall any of the allegations against US troops being rape...

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Hilas also said he witnessed an Army translator having sex with a boy at the prison. He said the boy was between 15 and 18 years old. Someone hung sheets to block the view, but Hilas said he heard the boy's screams and climbed a door to get a better look. Hilas said he watched the assault and told investigators that it was documented by a female soldier taking pictures.
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Article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43783-2004May20.html

[jdhill 0]

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looks pretty unequivocal

Nothing is unequivocal at 3AM looking, through NVGs, when weapons are being fired in one general direction.

Your right, the truth is somewhere in the middle...

I could have been a civilian wedding (that was violating curfew and shooting in a war zone)...

It could have been an insurgent's wedding...

It could have been staged to look as if we attacked a wedding party...

And it might be something else...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[bodypilot90 0]

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Quite likely the unequivocal truth will never come out.

wow we agree

[bodypilot90 0]

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The prison abuses were covered up for months before the pictures got leaked.

that's wrong, the military was doing a investigation long before the leak.

[wmw999 2,453]

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Nothing is unequivocal at 3AM looking, through NVGs, when weapons are being fired in one general direction

Which is why I said it looks like that's what actually happened. What appeared to be the case at the time is likely to be very different. But if we did bomb a wedding, we should find out how it happened and apologize. It might be that it was unavoidable. But saying that it wasn't a wedding, and that those dead children don't exist, is not the right answer.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jdhill 0]

Since I'm not signing up for any more newspaper websites the link doesn't work for me... Was it a translator working for the Army, or a soldier?

If it was a soldier, I stand corrected... like I said, the prison abuse was inexcusable...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[PhillyKev 0]

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The prison abuses were covered up for months before the pictures got leaked.

that's wrong, the military was doing a investigation long before the leak.

Ummm, a cover up is when something is hidden from view or knowledge. The military hid these events from the view and knowledge of the public. And according to the administration, they covered it up from them as well.

And the Red Cross complaints began long before the investigation.

[jdhill 0]

When the investigation was started in January, it was announced to the press... it just did not make the radar screen until the pictures came out... I call that lazy journalism, not a cover-up... the fact that a military investigation was not disclosed to the Whitehouse does not make it a cover-up either.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[jdhill 0]

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So why do you have confidence that there is no cover up going on now?

I don't think the prison abuse was covered up, it think the news didn't think it was news until there were pictures... The investigstion was announced to the media when it started in January...

I don't know that there is not a cover up, but I don't assume there is just because we have a different story than others... there is ample reason to not believe arab reporting of the situation, or media coverage of the sceen hours after the event. The video showing a wedding only shows what it shows, not anything that was going on outside the view of the camera.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[bodypilot90 0]

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The military hid these events from the view and knowledge of the public.

no cover up, the results were not in yet.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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When the investigation was started in January, it was announced to the press... it just did not make the radar screen until the pictures came out... I call that lazy journalism, not a cover-up... the fact that a military investigation was not disclosed to the Whitehouse does not make it a cover-up either.

J

It could be lazy, or it could that due to the amount of notes that come out of the war machine on a daily basis, it was easy to miss.

Somehow I think we would have gotten the truth a lot quicker if it wasn't an election year.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Skyrad 0]

In the Islamic world women have been Doctors for over a thousand years, in the US its not yet 100 years. In the Islamic world women have full inheritance rights, how long has that been in the US? In the Islamic world women have had the right to have their own business's for over a thousand years, how long has that been the case in the west? In the Islamic world women have had a right to their own money and accounts for over a thousand years, how long have they had that right in the west?
See Darius, Bodypilot was correct, women do have a different value in Islam after all.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

*** I don' t have time to find it but I saw pictures of what was found there, was a very high end sat phone, medical supplies for what look like maybe a company level or a small battalion level aid station. Weapons, cash stockpile, ammo.

It seems to me that at least some of the people at the "meeting" did not have clean hands.
***

Not all people in the middle east live in mud huts and are dirt poor, my uncle had a sat phone and so do several of his friends. In a country where there is not cell phone network it makes sense. When you consider that some of the guests were also from Syria and quite possibly quite wealth its not all that suprising. As for medical supplies, even villages can have somewhere to go if injured plus people keep fisrt aid kit in their 4X4's. As for large amounts of money again I'd be suprised if there wasn't large amounts of money at a Muslim wedding as gifts are not usualy given but money is.
In Iraq as in many countries in the region people often carry assault weapons its a self defence and a pride thing, it has nothing to do with being an insurgent its something that people have always done in that region. More so in rural and frontier areas where bandits work

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rhino 0]

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In the Islamic world women have been Doctors for over a thousand years, in the US its not yet 100 years. In the Islamic world women have full inheritance rights, how long has that been in the US? In the Islamic world women have had the right to have their own business's for over a thousand years, how long has that been the case in the west? In the Islamic world women have had a right to their own money and accounts for over a thousand years, how long have they had that right in the west?
See Darius, Bodypilot was correct, women do have a different value in Islam after all.

They also have the right to walk BEHIND their husbands wearing full body and face garments.. Sometimes on the other side of the road?

Am I right?

[kelel01 1]

Did you read Darius's post about the veils and garments? Here in the US, women are valued and judged based largely on their bodies-- breast size, waist size, etc. Whew. Good thing I live here when my mind is often of little or no value. How valuable I feel.

Kelly

[juanesky 0]

I can see the hordes of women wanting to move to Iran or any Islamic state to experience such rights.

Perhaps you want to read the Quran and what the rights of women really is over there, most have as much rights as your regular pet here in the US.

No, that will be less fun, bashing the US is more appealing.

As far as the history goes, not a bad record for a country who declared independence 227 years ago as compared to the thousand years of Islamic world translated to abject poverty and really without much to show for the experience......unless of course you can prove that there is one islamic state that currently has a first world country status.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Skyrad 0]

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In the Islamic world women have been Doctors for over a thousand years, in the US its not yet 100 years. In the Islamic world women have full inheritance rights, how long has that been in the US? In the Islamic world women have had the right to have their own business's for over a thousand years, how long has that been the case in the west? In the Islamic world women have had a right to their own money and accounts for over a thousand years, how long have they had that right in the west?
See Darius, Bodypilot was correct, women do have a different value in Islam after all.

They also have the right to walk BEHIND their husbands wearing full body and face garments.. Sometimes on the other side of the road?

Am I right?

No I'm afraid you are wrong Rhino. They have the right to wear a viel if they wish to but the majority of women don't and of the ones that do it is the vast majorities choice to do so. Actualy a Christian female friend ofmine used to thnk the same thing, rather than try and convince her myself I went upto two Muslim women that I'd never met before and asked them if they would mind talking to my friend about their dress (Both were wearing the full Hijab) They explained that it was their choice to do so, that no one made them do so and that once indoors they took it off. They said it made them feel liberated because men could not judge them by their bodies which they looked after. They also said that in summer they often wore nothing under the gowns or would wear western clothing sometimes designer gear but chose not to fluant it in public. One even said her husband was against her wearing it at first and teased her about being a 'Ninja' but it was fully he choice to do so. I've lived amoung Muslims all my life and have never yet come upon a Muslim family where the women didn't rule the roost. As for walking behind her husband or on the otherside of the road once again its a myth that it is some sort of requirment in Islam.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

True, maybe we should pick on another country, how about Argentina? Land of fat cocaine snorting blaspheming cheating footballers that resemble Danny DeVito. Shitty meat packing factrories and maimed conscripts who should of kept their malnourished feet off British territory?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca