Please explain this video to me

[Slappie 9]

Good, Fire, Hit him this is totaly fucked up. If the commentary is correct.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[Gawain 0]

I wouldn't believe the commentary without a whole lot more information (like, when, where, is that really a tractor--'cause it's got a long barrel looking thing that might shoot)...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[TomAiello 26]

If you'd like I can make up a nice video that looks very similar, and post it on a web site.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[quade 4]

It's definately a tractor. The long bright verticle pipe is the exhaust pipe. It's bright because this is a FLIR image and hotter objects are brighter.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

HERE is the orginal report as filed by ABC News.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Darius11 12]

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When he rolls out from under the truck, one of the pilots says, "He's wounded."

The other pilot says, "Hit him," and the Apache opens fire again, killing the man.

No POWs

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Yeah! YEAH! GET SOME! GET SOME!

Anyone who moves is an insurgent!

Anyone who stands still is a well-disciplined insurgent!

Q: How can you shoot women and children?
A: It's easy--you just don't lead them as much!

[Ron 10]

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No POWs

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He said there were no ground troops in the area and if the Apache pilots had let the three Iraqis go, the men might have gone on to kill American troops.

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As to whether the Apache pilots could have called in ground troops to apprehend the men, Cordesman said: "In this kind of war, wherever you find organized resistance among the insurgents, you have to act immediately. If you wait to send in ground troops almost invariably your enemy is going to be gone."

Less dead Americans, more dead enemy.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[quade 4]

I think you'd have to place yourself in the shoes of the helicopter crew.

They happen across what appears to be a weapons transfer.
The -smallest- weapon they have available to them is the 30mm gun.
They -can't- simply leave and let the weapons go on to kill U.S. troops.

What would YOU have them do? Land and try to talk sense into the Iraqis? Not likely.

While I agree that this incident may tap dance on the edge of ROE issues, it was, in my opinion, the proper thing to do.

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Quade: Agreed.

To the pacifists here: It'd be legal under Geneva to napalm their asses, but a 30mm cannon is inhumane? I'd personally prefer to be riddled with 30mm than be flambe'ed alive...

[Darius11 12]

Agreed if there is someone in the dark pointing a cylinder to me I would shoot them too.

But why kill the guy you think is wounded why finish him off. I didn't think we were there for extermination.

Just one more questions. Why shoot the guy after he has thrown the weapon away.

I am not sure if what they did was wrong but defiantly a mistake was made.

Ron I have nothing to say to your post you already have made your mind up about everything so what would be the point to even replay. It seems every non American is the enemy in your eyes.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[PhillyKev 0]

Well, it is war, and killing the enemy is kind of the point of it.

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I didn't think we were there for extermination.

Exterminating the enemy is precisely our goal.

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Just one more questions. Why shoot the guy after he has thrown the weapon away.

Because that's less troops to fight in the future.

You know I don't agree with us going to Iraq in the first place. But what they did is what you do in war, or you lose.

[storm1977 0]

Funny how they don't show the whole video in the posted piece...

The first thing they show is a Guy grabbing what appears to be an RPG from the back of the truck and diching it in a field.

Sorry, but these guys need to go!

It is unlikely that the Helo would just be flying around random farms shootin civilians. They were in the "Area" for a reason, and then witnessed a weapon capable of downing their helicopter, being moved.

What choice did they have?

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[quade 4]

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Just one more questions. Why shoot the guy after he has thrown the weapon away.

I think that drawing any hard and fast conclusions of the exact timeline of events and intentions of the participants is nearly impossible from only looking at this video.

The video is not a perfect recording and the helicopter crew whould have had much better images to from which to make their decisions.

Without reading the debrief and watching ALL of the video, I'd cut the crew quite a bit of slack.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[panzwami 0]

Well, it is well-established common knowledge that the members of the United States Armed Forces love nothing better than killing innocent civilians without any cause whatsoever. Don't you read American newspapers?

[/sarcasm]

[Darius11 12]

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You know I don't agree with us going to Iraq in the first place. But what they did is what you do in war, or you lose.

[PhillyKev 0]

You know, some people on here must be having conniptions reading the comments of the three "lefties" in this thread defending the US troops. I mean after all, we support terrorism and want our troops to fail since we don't like the president's policies.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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Well, it is well-established common knowledge that the members of the United States Armed Forces love nothing better than killing innocent civilians without any cause whatsoever. Don't you read American newspapers?
[/sarcasm]

Shhh! Don't you remeber the first briefing we got at Basic Training?:

The first rule of Kill Club is - you do not talk about Kill Club.

The second rule of Kill Club is - you DO NOT talk about Kill Club.

Third rule of Kill Club, someone yells "Stop!", goes limp, taps out, the fight is over.

Fourth rule, only two guys to a killing.

Fifth rule, one killing at a time, fellas.

Sixth rule, no shirt, no shoes.

Seventh rule, killings will go on as long as they have to.

And the eighth and final rule, if this is your first night at Kill Club, you have to Kill.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Again no sarcasm I really thought you were not aloud by Military law to kill the wounded.

Not supposed to go around bombing hospitals and ambulances. But troops in the field could be on fire with their colon falling out, but if they're trying to get away, finish them off.

[quade 4]

Well, if they have drawn those conclusions, they're simply wrong.

I want our guys to go out and stop every freekin' terrorist on the planet starting with Al Qaeda.

I don't want our guys to get side-tracked by going on wild goose chases.

I -fully- support our troops even if I don't support the decisions to send them certain places to do certain things.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Ron 10]

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Agreed if there is someone in the dark pointing a cylinder to me I would shoot them too.

Then what exactly the fuck is your beef?

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But why kill the guy you think is wounded why finish him off. I didn't think we were there for extermination.

If the helicopter crashed we would have seen images just like "Black Hawk Down"...And enemy is an enemy till they GIVE up.

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Just one more questions. Why shoot the guy after he has thrown the weapon away.

Where you there? Were you underfire? Armchair Ranger is easy and fun when you are safe behind a computer.

Last I checked it was not cool to strap a bomb on yourself and kill INNOCENT people (Which BTW these folks were not innocent)...I also always thought that you were supposed to hop on jets and fly places, not use them to blow up buildings....Huh, I guess its never that simple is it?

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I am not sure if what they did was wrong but defiantly a mistake was made.

The only mistake was those jackasses trying to do a weapons deal.

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Ron I have nothing to say to your post you already have made your mind up about everything so what would be the point to even replay. It seems every non American is the enemy in your eyes.

What a load of Bullshit.

Anyone that raises a weapon against me, my family, my friends or my country IS an enemy in my eyes. Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.

You clearly don't have any loyalty to anything since you ran from your homeland and all you do is bitch about this one....Are you ever going to be happy anywhere?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[panzwami 0]

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Again no sarcasm I really thought you were not aloud by Military law to kill the wounded.

Not supposed to go around bombing hospitals and ambulances. But troops in the field could be on fire with their colon falling out, but if they're trying to get away, finish them off.

I think is has a lot to do with the situation. You're not allowed simply to shoot POW's, but if an enemy POW under your guard suddenly reaches for your gun, he goes from non-combatant POW to combatant enemy, and you are allowed to drop him with extreme prejudice.

[PhillyKev 0]

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You clearly don't have any loyalty to anything since you ran from your homeland and all you do is bitch about this one

You really are unbelievable. Actually I frequently see him praising this country, but he criticises the current policies. You criticised Clinton's policies, does that mean you were bitching about this country?

[Ron 10]

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You criticised Clinton's policies, does that mean you were bitching about this country?

I criticised Clinton...Not his policies....Clinton was a morally corrupt person, that lied under oath. Some of his policies were good.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

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You criticised Clinton's policies, does that mean you were bitching about this country?

I criticised Clinton...Not his policies....Clinton was a morally corrupt person, that lied under oath. Some of his policies were good.

So would you never dispute any president's policies?