rickjump1 0 #76 June 7, 2004 QuoteNo. You're wrong. In fact it is usually the arrogant attitude that many Americans have (not all of them) that people don't like (e.g. thinking you have the best country in the world). Yes, you have the military and financial power but so what!!?? That does not make me jealous, there is more to life than money and killing people..... My wife and I lived in the UAE for 2.5+ years. Believe me there was a variety of arrogant people: some Americans; some not. We just went around them. Once I ate peaches out of the same can under the tail boom of a helicopter with a couple of guys over in Oman. They treated me as their equal and I felt privileged for the experience. One old man in the market in Sharjah (UAE) wanted to know if I was from Texas.When I asked why, he said,"they killed Kennedy". His statement was not hateful; it just showed me the rest of the world is silently watching. I guess I must get use to the emotional outbursts.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites damion75 0 #77 June 8, 2004 Not particularly answering Rick but... I think it might help world perception if Americans were more well travelled / worldly? There is an idea of the US citizen (certainly not all of them, but a lot) as being very insular and not having a wide knowledge of the rest of the world. I read somewhere that something like 50% of Americans do not own a passport. I am sure that this is equally true of parts of Europe, plenty of Africa etc, but the latter do not have the input on the world stage that the US has. Since the average US citizen has (through his/her vote) more of an input into world politics than the average European / African citizen perhaps they might see it as a civic responsibility to know proportionally more about the rest of the world? Just some random thoughts!*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crozby 0 #78 June 8, 2004 QuoteI read somewhere that something like 50% of Americans do not own a passport. its nearer 80%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #79 June 8, 2004 Quote think it might help world perception if Americans were more well travelled / worldly? There is an idea of the US citizen (certainly not all of them, but a lot) as being very insular and not having a wide knowledge of the rest of the world. Catch22. The perception a lot of Americans have is that they're not wanted in foreign countries and will be treated accordingly. Plus, it's not like we can take the train 5 hours and hit 8 different countries. It takes me 6 hours just to drive to the other side of Pennsylvania. I'd love to visit Europe. Have wanted to for years. But there's still lots in this country that I haven't seen yet and it's a lot cheaper than flying to Europe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #80 June 8, 2004 Wow… In the sequential barrage that followed my statements about jealousy and freedoms, 4 out of 5 came from persons in the UK (Mr2mk1g, nigel99, Kerr, and Red Skydiver). JackC is an unknown so I can’t add him to the list. It makes me wonder, though, about the jealousy part when I receive such an immediate, large, and defensive response. Maybe I’m just pulling this all out of thin air and there really is no basis for my feelings of European opposition. Seriously, if I am wrong, I retract the statement and apologize. I shouldn’t try and piss a bunch of people off with inflamatory posts. As for the freedom part, I don’t know your systems well enough to have made the statement that I did so I’m just asking. You’re correct in that the first one that comes to mind is gun ownership. I guess that one is very obvious. Another might be religious freedom. I know I’ve read stuff concerning religious tolerance in Europe. Specifically, I think it was speaking of France. It concerned how their government was trying to suppress or eliminate non-standard religions in order to keep the traditional structure in place and dominant. I’ll try and locate the article. In America, we are more tolerant of other religions and you are free to start whatever church you like whether it conflicts with the majority or not. It also spoke of the differences in general “schools of thought” concerning how we view the roll of government. It said that Europe, in general, still has the feeling that a government official, once elected, is supreme in his station and that the people are accountable to him. In America, a government official, once elected is directly accountable to the people (always) and that the government is specifically “for the people” and not visa versa. I know…I know…officials are elected there just like here but I’m speaking of the general mentality in regards to the official’s responsibility of service. Whether, once elected by the people, his allegiance is to the government or to the people who elected him. Again, I'm not trying to anger anyone today (maybe later ). I like the Brits (at least the SAS troops; I've had more experience with them than the general Great Britain populace). They were some of the best people I've had the privilage to work with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #81 June 8, 2004 That's a common misperception from people from small countries. That being well traveled or 'worldly' requires traveling between multiple countries. I bet that within the US (or China, or Russia) that there are as many different subcultures and things to learn as in all of Europe. Being from the Midwest, I'm no more a New Yorker than I am an Hawaiian. But I bet we all get lumped up into a single groups anyway. There is another posting somewhere on just this item. They had it right in Stripes, "It's Czeckoslovakia, it's like Wisconsin, you zip in, you zip out" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #82 June 8, 2004 QuoteThis is a question for all Americans out there. Im curious whether you realise how much the world hates you and what you consider the reasons to be. NB I dont hate America or its citizens per se, although I consider it has rather unusual foreign policies. Stuff like this, maybe? www.nytimes.com/2004/06/08/politics/08ABUS.html?ex=1087272000&en=a5052e26079f8733&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #83 June 8, 2004 QuoteI shouldn’t try and piss a bunch of people off with inflamatory posts. Ah - c'mon, it's more fun surely... QuoteAnother might be religious freedom. In the UK we frown on the US system of gagging religious teaching. Here we have some of the greatest diversity due to all the immigration from our old Empire. There are more other religions here than there are Christians. Public bodies rarely do anything about religion cos so few people actually give a damn over here. QuoteI think it was speaking of France Ah, the French. They're an odd bunch at the best of times. Quotegovernment was trying to suppress or eliminate non-standard religions The thing I remember from them was that they were suppressing ALL religious artefacts, whether it be a crucifix necklace or a turban. But like I said, they're odd. You should hear about the rules they have about what music can be played on the radio. Quotea government official, once elected is directly accountable to the people UK and US systems of government are remarkably similar. We regularly oust government officials for a huge gamete of reasons. British politics is still instilled with the very old fashioned style concept of honour (at least publicly) and politicians regularly have to resign as they have been dishonoured. (unfortunately honour only counts if the papers find out). I can't really comment on the rest of the continent - they're odd. You'll probably find Brits would much rather piss off the rest of Europe than our friends over the pond. So this is perhaps where Brits must bow out of the argument over why people hate America cos when it comes down to it, we'd much rather "hate" the French. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #84 June 8, 2004 QuoteMaybe I’m just pulling this all out of thin air and there really is no basis for my feelings of European opposition. Seriously, if I am wrong, I retract the statement and apologize. I shouldn’t try and piss a bunch of people off with inflamatory posts. As for the freedom part, I don’t know your systems well enough to have made the statement that I did so I’m just asking. You’re correct in that the first one that comes to mind is gun ownership. I guess that one is very obvious. Spend a vacation in Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Scotland... and try telling the people you meet how much more freedom you have in the USA than they do. Take a walk through downtown Amsterdam and compare the restrictions you encounter with a stroll through Atlanta or Philadelphia.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #85 June 8, 2004 In all fairness and speaking just of Europe, I've only spent time in Spain, Germany, and Turkey. I've only passed through England. I can honestly only say that there seemed to be a negative feeling towards us (Americans) in Spain. I was there for 1 month. The other places, only for about 1 week each. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #86 June 8, 2004 QuoteSo this is perhaps where Brits must bow out of the argument over why people hate America cos when it comes down to it, we'd much rather "hate" the French. Who wouldn't? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #87 June 8, 2004 QuoteIt also spoke of the differences in general “schools of thought” concerning how we view the roll of government. It said that Europe, in general, still has the feeling that a government official, once elected, is supreme in his station and that the people are accountable to him. In America, a government official, once elected is directly accountable to the people (always) and that the government is specifically “for the people” and not visa versa. I know…I know…officials are elected there just like here but I’m speaking of the general mentality in regards to the official’s responsibility of service. Whether, once elected by the people, his allegiance is to the government or to the people who elected him. Please read some of the posts by Americans saying things like "support Bush no matter what because he is the president", "questioning US policy is aiding and abetting terrorism", etc. Also see the post about the Pentagon report and terrorism and how they legally justified how the POTUS in his role as CIC is not accountable to congress or the people in how he decides to wage war and that he is immune from domestic or international laws in that role. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andrewstewart 0 #88 June 8, 2004 QuoteIn America ... you are free to start whatever church you like whether it conflicts with the majority or not. Like in Waco? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #89 June 8, 2004 Gun ownership...thats just cultural differences, Nobody, I believe, hates the USA over gun ownership. I might disagree with people telling me how great guns are, but thats just their personal enthusiasm, there are plenty Americans who dislike them as much as the next guy. "Another might be religious freedom. ...I think it was speaking of France. It concerned how their government was trying to suppress or eliminate non-standard religions in order to keep the traditional structure in place and dominant." It was France, they recently banned things like turbans, burkhas, large crosses, skull caps, etc basically any overtly religious symbol, in schools. I'm not sure if it was to keep the 'traditional' religion dominant, I think it was more of an attempt to eliminate discrimination and sectarianism in schools. But I agree with you, its pretty awful. This is part of the story I think you are refering to...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3483409.stm This link has more on the story, and related stuff. "Europe, in general, still has the feeling that a government official, once elected, is supreme in his station" I'd file that as a misconception, or misled opinion, we can chuck our govt out at any time we feel like it, and elect a new one. In the UK anyways....I think, if there is a crisis, a debacle, scandal etc, the opposition can call for a vote of no confidence in parliament. Successful or notable politicians are often appointed to our House Of Lords, which is a non elected body of people who have a limited say in keeping the House of Commons in check, an outmoded concept if you ask me, but hey-ho... Back to this jealousy you mentioned earlier, yes, a large part of global dislike, if you like, may be down to jealousy. I'd put it down to fear. Fear not in a sense that you will come and liberate Aberdeen for the sake of North Sea oil, I think its more a fear that your empire (lets just call it an empire the time being) will fail. If America crashes financially, it will drag down a lot of Europe, similar to the far east crash a few years back. Put it this way, who is funding your trade deficit? How will we get our money back, and lets not forget who our biggest customer is...... There may be the concept that the USA treats the rest of the world differently than their own assets. Compare the drilling for oil in environmentally sensitive areas such as the North Caspian, West Africa etc, and the restrictions on petroleum developments in your northern reaches. A NIMBY (not in my back yard)attititude if you like, meanwhile Chevron continues to spoil vast regions of the Niger Delta. Thats corporate, but its an image that is pasted onto people. Similarly, look at human rights, you have one set of rules for US citizens, and another for ferriners, Gitmo being an unpleasant example, for discussion elsewhere.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #90 June 8, 2004 QuotePlease read some of the posts by Americans saying things like "support Bush no matter what because he is the president", "questioning US policy is aiding and abetting terrorism", etc. Also see the post about the Pentagon report and terrorism and how they legally justified how the POTUS in his role as CIC is not accountable to congress or the people in how he decides to wage war and that he is immune from domestic or international laws in that role. Also notice posters that criticize the President no matter what he says or does. Notice the venomous hatred and blame spewed out by many on the left to the point where the enemies of this country are encouraged by many of the same people. Notice also how when asked at what point the criticism crosses the line between healthy debate and encouragement, the posters suddenly become deathly silent. Notice the naievity of many on the left who believe that pulling out of Iraq will solve the problems and their belief that the terrorists will not follow our troops to this country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #91 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn America ... you are free to start whatever church you like whether it conflicts with the majority or not. Like in Waco? In Waco, they were stockpiling illegal weaponry and munitions as well as molesting minors. Right? Nothing to do with religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mardigrasbob 0 #92 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn America ... you are free to start whatever church you like whether it conflicts with the majority or not. Like in Waco? Andy Andy Andy, You constantly re-enforce my dislike for your lack of compassion. Waco was not about religion, it was about malignant narcissism. Weather we are taking about Hitler, Stalin, Manson, Jones or Koresh; groups of dis-affected people are easily swayed by maniacal 'leaders'. An evil man with a bible is more dangerous than one with a gun. -Bob- - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #93 June 8, 2004 QuoteAn evil man with a bible is more dangerous than one with a gun. Ha, I like that. Good one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #94 June 8, 2004 "Notice also how when asked at what point the criticism crosses the line between healthy debate and encouragement, the posters suddenly become deathly silent." Aye, but appreciate that some of us just go home, and don't log on again till the next day....that whole timezone thing. See ya tomorrow, the open door beckons.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #95 June 8, 2004 QuoteNotice the venomous hatred and blame spewed out by many on the left to the point where the enemies of this country are encouraged by many of the same people. Notice also how when asked at what point the criticism crosses the line between healthy debate and encouragement, the posters suddenly become deathly silent. That's ridiculous and just another form of the blame game. It can just as easily be said that your support of the president and his policies encourages terrorists to kill civilians since they are supporting the policies they despise. QuoteNotice the naievity of many on the left who believe that pulling out of Iraq will solve the problems and their belief that the terrorists will not follow our troops to this country. Notice the naevity of many on the right who believe that not criticising the president will solve the problems and their belief that terrorism will then be defeated. Hypocrisy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #96 June 8, 2004 Quote I'd love to visit Europe. Have wanted to for years. But there's still lots in this country that I haven't seen yet and it's a lot cheaper than flying to Europe. How many times have you been to Canada or Mexico? I used to jump near Buffalo NY, which was literally a 10 minute drive from the Canadian border. While certainly most Buffalo residents had been to Canada, and many go frequently, I was amazed to find people who had lived their there whole lives, and never driven 10 minutes to the North. It's also not a rare even to find people who have never been out of their state. Certainly there are myopic people everywhere, its just my perception that they seem more common in the US. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #97 June 8, 2004 QuoteHow many times have you been to Canada or Mexico? Canada, probably 20 times. Mexico a few. The carribean a couple dozen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflybella 0 #98 June 8, 2004 America doesn't want Americans to travel. We want to keep our disposable income in-house. Do we have 'around the world' tickets? Is travel to students as widely promoted as it is in Europe or Oz? I have friends from Oz who say they will purchase the 'cheap' fares out of the US to say, London and then purchase tickets from there for the rest of their trip because travelling 'out' of the US is so expensive. Also, we're told other countries hate us. Most of us who have traveled abroad have not had that experience. Rudeness and arrogance aren't appreciated no matter what country you're from but those are exceptions. Travelling to other parts of the US is NOT at all like travelling to another country. And travelling to Switzerland or Denmark and staying in a Holiday Inn is not like travelling abroad. "OOh, the McDonald's in Rome sells beer!" Not at all the same as experiencing another country/culture. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andrewstewart 0 #99 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteIn America ... you are free to start whatever church you like whether it conflicts with the majority or not. Like in Waco? You constantly re-enforce my dislike for your lack of compassion. What happened at Waco was compassionate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #100 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteNotice the venomous hatred and blame spewed out by many on the left to the point where the enemies of this country are encouraged by many of the same people. Notice also how when asked at what point the criticism crosses the line between healthy debate and encouragement, the posters suddenly become deathly silent. QuoteThat's ridiculous and just another form of the blame game. It can just as easily be said that your support of the president and his policies encourages terrorists to kill civilians since they are supporting the policies they despise. Bwahahaha..... talk about the blame game. The Left-Wing wackos are experts at it. With the death of Ronald Reagan, we are again reminded about how the Lefts worn out old rhetorical template is applied to any Republican President. And again the question about where the line is between healthy debate and encouraging our enemies is dodged. Why can't I get an answer? I've asked at least 20 Lefties this question and can't get an answer. QuoteNotice the naievity of many on the left who believe that pulling out of Iraq will solve the problems and their belief that the terrorists will not follow our troops to this country. QuoteNotice the naevity of many on the right who believe that not criticising the president will solve the problems and their belief that terrorism will then be defeated. Its also very obvious all the left does is bitch and moan and never offer any solutions except "get the U.N. involved". The U.N. doesn't want to get involved. Thats why the U.N. runs from nearly every situation when the going gets tough ie. Somalia, Iraq. The only time the U.N. wants to get involved is if there's money to be made with oil contracts. Gee.. wonder how Volkers "Investigation" is going? Have you listened to an Al Gore speech lately? Talk about completely over the line. Thank God Al Gore isn't the President. He no more has the temper for it than Kerry does. Hypocrisy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 4 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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damion75 0 #77 June 8, 2004 Not particularly answering Rick but... I think it might help world perception if Americans were more well travelled / worldly? There is an idea of the US citizen (certainly not all of them, but a lot) as being very insular and not having a wide knowledge of the rest of the world. I read somewhere that something like 50% of Americans do not own a passport. I am sure that this is equally true of parts of Europe, plenty of Africa etc, but the latter do not have the input on the world stage that the US has. Since the average US citizen has (through his/her vote) more of an input into world politics than the average European / African citizen perhaps they might see it as a civic responsibility to know proportionally more about the rest of the world? Just some random thoughts!*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #78 June 8, 2004 QuoteI read somewhere that something like 50% of Americans do not own a passport. its nearer 80%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #79 June 8, 2004 Quote think it might help world perception if Americans were more well travelled / worldly? There is an idea of the US citizen (certainly not all of them, but a lot) as being very insular and not having a wide knowledge of the rest of the world. Catch22. The perception a lot of Americans have is that they're not wanted in foreign countries and will be treated accordingly. Plus, it's not like we can take the train 5 hours and hit 8 different countries. It takes me 6 hours just to drive to the other side of Pennsylvania. I'd love to visit Europe. Have wanted to for years. But there's still lots in this country that I haven't seen yet and it's a lot cheaper than flying to Europe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #80 June 8, 2004 Wow… In the sequential barrage that followed my statements about jealousy and freedoms, 4 out of 5 came from persons in the UK (Mr2mk1g, nigel99, Kerr, and Red Skydiver). JackC is an unknown so I can’t add him to the list. It makes me wonder, though, about the jealousy part when I receive such an immediate, large, and defensive response. Maybe I’m just pulling this all out of thin air and there really is no basis for my feelings of European opposition. Seriously, if I am wrong, I retract the statement and apologize. I shouldn’t try and piss a bunch of people off with inflamatory posts. As for the freedom part, I don’t know your systems well enough to have made the statement that I did so I’m just asking. You’re correct in that the first one that comes to mind is gun ownership. I guess that one is very obvious. Another might be religious freedom. I know I’ve read stuff concerning religious tolerance in Europe. Specifically, I think it was speaking of France. It concerned how their government was trying to suppress or eliminate non-standard religions in order to keep the traditional structure in place and dominant. I’ll try and locate the article. In America, we are more tolerant of other religions and you are free to start whatever church you like whether it conflicts with the majority or not. It also spoke of the differences in general “schools of thought” concerning how we view the roll of government. It said that Europe, in general, still has the feeling that a government official, once elected, is supreme in his station and that the people are accountable to him. In America, a government official, once elected is directly accountable to the people (always) and that the government is specifically “for the people” and not visa versa. I know…I know…officials are elected there just like here but I’m speaking of the general mentality in regards to the official’s responsibility of service. Whether, once elected by the people, his allegiance is to the government or to the people who elected him. Again, I'm not trying to anger anyone today (maybe later ). I like the Brits (at least the SAS troops; I've had more experience with them than the general Great Britain populace). They were some of the best people I've had the privilage to work with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #81 June 8, 2004 That's a common misperception from people from small countries. That being well traveled or 'worldly' requires traveling between multiple countries. I bet that within the US (or China, or Russia) that there are as many different subcultures and things to learn as in all of Europe. Being from the Midwest, I'm no more a New Yorker than I am an Hawaiian. But I bet we all get lumped up into a single groups anyway. There is another posting somewhere on just this item. They had it right in Stripes, "It's Czeckoslovakia, it's like Wisconsin, you zip in, you zip out" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #82 June 8, 2004 QuoteThis is a question for all Americans out there. Im curious whether you realise how much the world hates you and what you consider the reasons to be. NB I dont hate America or its citizens per se, although I consider it has rather unusual foreign policies. Stuff like this, maybe? www.nytimes.com/2004/06/08/politics/08ABUS.html?ex=1087272000&en=a5052e26079f8733&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #83 June 8, 2004 QuoteI shouldn’t try and piss a bunch of people off with inflamatory posts. Ah - c'mon, it's more fun surely... QuoteAnother might be religious freedom. In the UK we frown on the US system of gagging religious teaching. Here we have some of the greatest diversity due to all the immigration from our old Empire. There are more other religions here than there are Christians. Public bodies rarely do anything about religion cos so few people actually give a damn over here. QuoteI think it was speaking of France Ah, the French. They're an odd bunch at the best of times. Quotegovernment was trying to suppress or eliminate non-standard religions The thing I remember from them was that they were suppressing ALL religious artefacts, whether it be a crucifix necklace or a turban. But like I said, they're odd. You should hear about the rules they have about what music can be played on the radio. Quotea government official, once elected is directly accountable to the people UK and US systems of government are remarkably similar. We regularly oust government officials for a huge gamete of reasons. British politics is still instilled with the very old fashioned style concept of honour (at least publicly) and politicians regularly have to resign as they have been dishonoured. (unfortunately honour only counts if the papers find out). I can't really comment on the rest of the continent - they're odd. You'll probably find Brits would much rather piss off the rest of Europe than our friends over the pond. So this is perhaps where Brits must bow out of the argument over why people hate America cos when it comes down to it, we'd much rather "hate" the French. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #84 June 8, 2004 QuoteMaybe I’m just pulling this all out of thin air and there really is no basis for my feelings of European opposition. Seriously, if I am wrong, I retract the statement and apologize. I shouldn’t try and piss a bunch of people off with inflamatory posts. As for the freedom part, I don’t know your systems well enough to have made the statement that I did so I’m just asking. You’re correct in that the first one that comes to mind is gun ownership. I guess that one is very obvious. Spend a vacation in Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Scotland... and try telling the people you meet how much more freedom you have in the USA than they do. Take a walk through downtown Amsterdam and compare the restrictions you encounter with a stroll through Atlanta or Philadelphia.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #85 June 8, 2004 In all fairness and speaking just of Europe, I've only spent time in Spain, Germany, and Turkey. I've only passed through England. I can honestly only say that there seemed to be a negative feeling towards us (Americans) in Spain. I was there for 1 month. The other places, only for about 1 week each. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #86 June 8, 2004 QuoteSo this is perhaps where Brits must bow out of the argument over why people hate America cos when it comes down to it, we'd much rather "hate" the French. Who wouldn't? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #87 June 8, 2004 QuoteIt also spoke of the differences in general “schools of thought” concerning how we view the roll of government. It said that Europe, in general, still has the feeling that a government official, once elected, is supreme in his station and that the people are accountable to him. In America, a government official, once elected is directly accountable to the people (always) and that the government is specifically “for the people” and not visa versa. I know…I know…officials are elected there just like here but I’m speaking of the general mentality in regards to the official’s responsibility of service. Whether, once elected by the people, his allegiance is to the government or to the people who elected him. Please read some of the posts by Americans saying things like "support Bush no matter what because he is the president", "questioning US policy is aiding and abetting terrorism", etc. Also see the post about the Pentagon report and terrorism and how they legally justified how the POTUS in his role as CIC is not accountable to congress or the people in how he decides to wage war and that he is immune from domestic or international laws in that role. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #88 June 8, 2004 QuoteIn America ... you are free to start whatever church you like whether it conflicts with the majority or not. Like in Waco? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #89 June 8, 2004 Gun ownership...thats just cultural differences, Nobody, I believe, hates the USA over gun ownership. I might disagree with people telling me how great guns are, but thats just their personal enthusiasm, there are plenty Americans who dislike them as much as the next guy. "Another might be religious freedom. ...I think it was speaking of France. It concerned how their government was trying to suppress or eliminate non-standard religions in order to keep the traditional structure in place and dominant." It was France, they recently banned things like turbans, burkhas, large crosses, skull caps, etc basically any overtly religious symbol, in schools. I'm not sure if it was to keep the 'traditional' religion dominant, I think it was more of an attempt to eliminate discrimination and sectarianism in schools. But I agree with you, its pretty awful. This is part of the story I think you are refering to...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3483409.stm This link has more on the story, and related stuff. "Europe, in general, still has the feeling that a government official, once elected, is supreme in his station" I'd file that as a misconception, or misled opinion, we can chuck our govt out at any time we feel like it, and elect a new one. In the UK anyways....I think, if there is a crisis, a debacle, scandal etc, the opposition can call for a vote of no confidence in parliament. Successful or notable politicians are often appointed to our House Of Lords, which is a non elected body of people who have a limited say in keeping the House of Commons in check, an outmoded concept if you ask me, but hey-ho... Back to this jealousy you mentioned earlier, yes, a large part of global dislike, if you like, may be down to jealousy. I'd put it down to fear. Fear not in a sense that you will come and liberate Aberdeen for the sake of North Sea oil, I think its more a fear that your empire (lets just call it an empire the time being) will fail. If America crashes financially, it will drag down a lot of Europe, similar to the far east crash a few years back. Put it this way, who is funding your trade deficit? How will we get our money back, and lets not forget who our biggest customer is...... There may be the concept that the USA treats the rest of the world differently than their own assets. Compare the drilling for oil in environmentally sensitive areas such as the North Caspian, West Africa etc, and the restrictions on petroleum developments in your northern reaches. A NIMBY (not in my back yard)attititude if you like, meanwhile Chevron continues to spoil vast regions of the Niger Delta. Thats corporate, but its an image that is pasted onto people. Similarly, look at human rights, you have one set of rules for US citizens, and another for ferriners, Gitmo being an unpleasant example, for discussion elsewhere.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #90 June 8, 2004 QuotePlease read some of the posts by Americans saying things like "support Bush no matter what because he is the president", "questioning US policy is aiding and abetting terrorism", etc. Also see the post about the Pentagon report and terrorism and how they legally justified how the POTUS in his role as CIC is not accountable to congress or the people in how he decides to wage war and that he is immune from domestic or international laws in that role. Also notice posters that criticize the President no matter what he says or does. Notice the venomous hatred and blame spewed out by many on the left to the point where the enemies of this country are encouraged by many of the same people. Notice also how when asked at what point the criticism crosses the line between healthy debate and encouragement, the posters suddenly become deathly silent. Notice the naievity of many on the left who believe that pulling out of Iraq will solve the problems and their belief that the terrorists will not follow our troops to this country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #91 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn America ... you are free to start whatever church you like whether it conflicts with the majority or not. Like in Waco? In Waco, they were stockpiling illegal weaponry and munitions as well as molesting minors. Right? Nothing to do with religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mardigrasbob 0 #92 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn America ... you are free to start whatever church you like whether it conflicts with the majority or not. Like in Waco? Andy Andy Andy, You constantly re-enforce my dislike for your lack of compassion. Waco was not about religion, it was about malignant narcissism. Weather we are taking about Hitler, Stalin, Manson, Jones or Koresh; groups of dis-affected people are easily swayed by maniacal 'leaders'. An evil man with a bible is more dangerous than one with a gun. -Bob- - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #93 June 8, 2004 QuoteAn evil man with a bible is more dangerous than one with a gun. Ha, I like that. Good one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #94 June 8, 2004 "Notice also how when asked at what point the criticism crosses the line between healthy debate and encouragement, the posters suddenly become deathly silent." Aye, but appreciate that some of us just go home, and don't log on again till the next day....that whole timezone thing. See ya tomorrow, the open door beckons.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #95 June 8, 2004 QuoteNotice the venomous hatred and blame spewed out by many on the left to the point where the enemies of this country are encouraged by many of the same people. Notice also how when asked at what point the criticism crosses the line between healthy debate and encouragement, the posters suddenly become deathly silent. That's ridiculous and just another form of the blame game. It can just as easily be said that your support of the president and his policies encourages terrorists to kill civilians since they are supporting the policies they despise. QuoteNotice the naievity of many on the left who believe that pulling out of Iraq will solve the problems and their belief that the terrorists will not follow our troops to this country. Notice the naevity of many on the right who believe that not criticising the president will solve the problems and their belief that terrorism will then be defeated. Hypocrisy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #96 June 8, 2004 Quote I'd love to visit Europe. Have wanted to for years. But there's still lots in this country that I haven't seen yet and it's a lot cheaper than flying to Europe. How many times have you been to Canada or Mexico? I used to jump near Buffalo NY, which was literally a 10 minute drive from the Canadian border. While certainly most Buffalo residents had been to Canada, and many go frequently, I was amazed to find people who had lived their there whole lives, and never driven 10 minutes to the North. It's also not a rare even to find people who have never been out of their state. Certainly there are myopic people everywhere, its just my perception that they seem more common in the US. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #97 June 8, 2004 QuoteHow many times have you been to Canada or Mexico? Canada, probably 20 times. Mexico a few. The carribean a couple dozen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #98 June 8, 2004 America doesn't want Americans to travel. We want to keep our disposable income in-house. Do we have 'around the world' tickets? Is travel to students as widely promoted as it is in Europe or Oz? I have friends from Oz who say they will purchase the 'cheap' fares out of the US to say, London and then purchase tickets from there for the rest of their trip because travelling 'out' of the US is so expensive. Also, we're told other countries hate us. Most of us who have traveled abroad have not had that experience. Rudeness and arrogance aren't appreciated no matter what country you're from but those are exceptions. Travelling to other parts of the US is NOT at all like travelling to another country. And travelling to Switzerland or Denmark and staying in a Holiday Inn is not like travelling abroad. "OOh, the McDonald's in Rome sells beer!" Not at all the same as experiencing another country/culture. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #99 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteIn America ... you are free to start whatever church you like whether it conflicts with the majority or not. Like in Waco? You constantly re-enforce my dislike for your lack of compassion. What happened at Waco was compassionate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #100 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteNotice the venomous hatred and blame spewed out by many on the left to the point where the enemies of this country are encouraged by many of the same people. Notice also how when asked at what point the criticism crosses the line between healthy debate and encouragement, the posters suddenly become deathly silent. QuoteThat's ridiculous and just another form of the blame game. It can just as easily be said that your support of the president and his policies encourages terrorists to kill civilians since they are supporting the policies they despise. Bwahahaha..... talk about the blame game. The Left-Wing wackos are experts at it. With the death of Ronald Reagan, we are again reminded about how the Lefts worn out old rhetorical template is applied to any Republican President. And again the question about where the line is between healthy debate and encouraging our enemies is dodged. Why can't I get an answer? I've asked at least 20 Lefties this question and can't get an answer. QuoteNotice the naievity of many on the left who believe that pulling out of Iraq will solve the problems and their belief that the terrorists will not follow our troops to this country. QuoteNotice the naevity of many on the right who believe that not criticising the president will solve the problems and their belief that terrorism will then be defeated. Its also very obvious all the left does is bitch and moan and never offer any solutions except "get the U.N. involved". The U.N. doesn't want to get involved. Thats why the U.N. runs from nearly every situation when the going gets tough ie. Somalia, Iraq. The only time the U.N. wants to get involved is if there's money to be made with oil contracts. Gee.. wonder how Volkers "Investigation" is going? Have you listened to an Al Gore speech lately? Talk about completely over the line. Thank God Al Gore isn't the President. He no more has the temper for it than Kerry does. Hypocrisy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
