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wmw999 2,534
Kelpdiver:
>It's far more accurate to refer to Reagan as the former governor of
>the largest state in the country than as an actor in this context.
Billvon:
>If you're a republican, of course.
Would that be because, um, Alaska is the largest state in the country? I think California comes in third or something....
Wendy W.
>It's far more accurate to refer to Reagan as the former governor of
>the largest state in the country than as an actor in this context.
Billvon:
>If you're a republican, of course.
Would that be because, um, Alaska is the largest state in the country? I think California comes in third or something....
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
Sort of. Where I live, it actually increased them for a brief period. I live near the border of Wisconsin and Illinois. During the 70s there was a period of time when Illinois had raised the drinking age to 21, but Wisconsin was still at 18. Kids would drive to Wisconsin to get drunk, then trek back home. Instead of going a couple miles to the neighborhood bar they would drive 10-15 miles to cross the border. Same drinking, but more miles on the road, equals more accidents. ***
Did that for years, Lived in CrystalLake and would go to Lake Geneva from the age of 14, city slickers, the clowns lounge, hogs and kisses, etc.. Some nights we should not of been on the road going home. The age should be 18...
Did that for years, Lived in CrystalLake and would go to Lake Geneva from the age of 14, city slickers, the clowns lounge, hogs and kisses, etc.. Some nights we should not of been on the road going home. The age should be 18...
QuoteThe idea that there are secondary or tertiary "ages of majority" depending on the subject is bullshit.
I agree! It's crazy to say that at 18 you're responsible enough to influence laws if you so choose, but you can't drink...
On a side note...I find it interesting that at the U of I, the bar entry age in Urbana is 18 and in Champaign is 19...Obviously people under 21 go there and drink...The City of Champaign has been trying to raise the bar entry age in Campus Town (not all the bars in Champaign have a 19 entry age, just those on campus) to 21, though I doubt this will happen soon since the City makes a lot of money from underage drinking tickets...
Quote
Would that be because, um, Alaska is the largest state in the country? I think California comes in third or something....
.
I'll accept that rebuke! It's as funny as the 45 degrees F shot in the training forum!
But staying on track, CA's GNP ranks in the ballpark of 6th in the world. Back in Reagan's eras as governor that was probably a bit lower, but I'd be surprised if less than 15th. With all deferrence to the Senators and former governors of backwater states, his experience there proved him qualified to be President. Carter may have been a much smarter man, but he did not have the skill set needed to deal with the crappy hand he was dealt. Perhaps Georgia isn't quite the same training ground. Clinton did much better, at least on the domestic front.
(and honestly, I don't think uninhabitable tundra should count)
Why not have beer camp before 18 year old kids are allowed to drink. In a controlled environment let them do the normal dumb things (like I did) only under some type of supervision. Make it a credit course.
Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.
QuoteWhy not have beer camp before 18 year old kids are allowed to drink. In a controlled environment let them do the normal dumb things (like I did) only under some type of supervision. Make it a credit course.
I don't see any harm, but nor do I see anything gained. Americans well past the drinking age have shown that they haven't learned anything with years of practice getting drunk.
wmw999 2,534
Quotewhole dang post
That was a really great post, and not just because it acknowledged my wit
. All points dead on.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
Thought I would resurrect this thread. I was thinking about this the other day. Thinking about all the young soldiers who are losing/risking their lives and limbs. They at least deserve a beer!
I have always thought that if you are old enough to sign contracts, get married, live on your own, vote, serve in the military at 18, then you are old enough to make the decision to drink alcohol.
I have always thought that if you are old enough to sign contracts, get married, live on your own, vote, serve in the military at 18, then you are old enough to make the decision to drink alcohol.
Jen
There should be no drinking age for children dining & drinking with their parents. European children raised in that environment seem to be a lot more responsible in their alcohol use than Americans.
16 as the age to drink beer and wine without parental supervision would be consistent with when we allow American children to engage in activities that put other people at risk - notably driving and sex. 16 for beer and wine alone, 18 for hard liquor was the rule when I was last in Germany where it seemed to work.
And the driving age should be raised to 18. Give kids a chance to learn responsible drinking BEFORE they become drivers.
16 as the age to drink beer and wine without parental supervision would be consistent with when we allow American children to engage in activities that put other people at risk - notably driving and sex. 16 for beer and wine alone, 18 for hard liquor was the rule when I was last in Germany where it seemed to work.
And the driving age should be raised to 18. Give kids a chance to learn responsible drinking BEFORE they become drivers.
QuoteThought I would resurrect this thread. I was thinking about this the other day. Thinking about all the young soldiers who are losing/risking their lives and limbs. They at least deserve a beer!
I have always thought that if you are old enough to sign contracts, get married, live on your own, vote, serve in the military at 18, then you are old enough to make the decision to drink alcohol.
Are you not the same person who has a problem with legalizing mj for adults (21yo)? Why make it easier for teens to drink? Not that the 21 age limit keeps teens from drinking but, why so easy on this and not legal mj for responsible adults? Make it easy for teens to get booze and surely the death toll on the roads will go up, violence amongst teens will rise amongst a number of other social woes. Why make it easier for a teen to start pickling their liver? There is a reason for 21 and above. Why go into reverse?
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
wmw999 2,534
I was around for those days, too. One thing that we have in the US that many others countries don't have is nearly universal access to cars at the age of 16-18 for those same kids who are drinking.
There was a pretty noticeable effect on drunk driving when the drinking age went down. If it were to go down only in cities where there's no parking (so that yuo have to take a taxi or bus home) I'd bet that there wouldn't be nearly as big a jump.
Wendy W.
There was a pretty noticeable effect on drunk driving when the drinking age went down. If it were to go down only in cities where there's no parking (so that yuo have to take a taxi or bus home) I'd bet that there wouldn't be nearly as big a jump.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
QuoteAre you not the same person who has a problem with legalizing mj for adults (21yo)?
If you read my posts on that thread, you would see I never said the MJ should be illegal. In fact I even stated I did not have a problem with it being legal. Go read it again. My only problem on that argument was that people were referring to it as a harmless drug. I was simply dispelling myths. I think alcohol is harmful too. Not the point of this thread though. Just saying that people should be able to decide to drink at age 18.
Jen
One of your post from that thread...
I am just wondering why you would have no problem with lowering the drinking age when alcohol has killed millions of people over the years while being on the fence about mj which has killed zero people over the years. Read on... the numbers speak for themselves... even the toll of all illicit drug deaths (not including mj) is far lower than alcohol.
Annual Causes of Death in the United States
Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000,
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0
(2000): "The leading causes of death in 2000 were tobacco (435,000 deaths; 18.1% of total US deaths),
poor diet and physical inactivity (400,000 deaths; 16.6%),
and alcohol consumption (85,000 deaths; 3.5%). Other actual causes of death were microbial agents (75,000),
toxic agents (55,000),
motor vehicle crashes (43,000),
incidents involving firearms (29,000),
sexual behaviors (20,000),
and illicit use of drugs (17,000)."
(Note: According to a correction published by the Journal on Jan. 19, 2005, "On page 1240, in Table 2, '400,000 (16.6)' deaths for 'poor diet and physical inactivity' in 2000 should be '365,000 (15.2).' A dagger symbol should be added to 'alcohol consumption' in the body of the table and a dagger footnote should be added with 'in 1990 data, deaths from alcohol-related crashes are included in alcohol consumption deaths, but not in motor vehicle deaths. In 2000 data, 16,653 deaths from alcohol-related crashes are included in both alcohol consumption and motor vehicle death categories." Source: Journal of the American Medical Association, Jan. 19, 2005, Vol. 293, No. 3, p. 298.)
Source: Mokdad, Ali H., PhD, James S. Marks, MD, MPH, Donna F. Stroup, PhD, MSc, Julie L. Gerberding, MD, MPH, "Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000," Journal of the American Medical Association, March 10, 2004, Vol. 291, No. 10, pp. 1238, 1241.
(Average 1982-1998): According to Canadian researchers, approximately 32,000 hospitalized patients (and possibly as many as 106,000) in the USA die each year because of adverse reactions to their prescribed medications.
Source: Lazarou, J, Pomeranz, BH, Corey, PN, "Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients: a meta-analysis of prospective studies," Journal of the American Medical Association (Chicago, IL: American Medical Association, 1998), 1998;279:1200-1205, also letters column, "Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients," JAMA (Chicago, IL: AMA, 1998), Nov. 25, 1998, Vol. 280, No. 20, from the web at http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v280n20/ffull/jlt1125-1.html, last accessed Feb. 12, 2001.
(2001): The US Centers for Disease Control reports that in 2001, there were a total of 30,622 deaths from suicide in the US.
Source: Arias, Elizabeth, Ph.D.; Robert N. Anderson, Ph.D.; Hsiang-Ching Kung, Ph.D.; Sherry L. Murphy, B.S.; Kenneth D. Kochanek, M.A.; Division of Vital Statistics, "Deaths: Final Data for 2001," National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 50, No. 3 (Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics, Sept. 18, 2003), Table C, p. 8, from the web at http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_03.pdf, last accessed Jan. 27, 2004.
(2001): The US Centers for Disease Control reports that in 2001, there were a total of 20,308 deaths from homicide in the US.
Source: Arias, Elizabeth, Ph.D.; Robert N. Anderson, Ph.D.; Hsiang-Ching Kung, Ph.D.; Sherry L. Murphy, B.S.; Kenneth D. Kochanek, M.A.; Division of Vital Statistics, "Deaths: Final Data for 2001," National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 50, No. 3 (Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics, Sept. 18, 2003), Table C, p. 8, from the web at http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_03.pdf, last accessed Jan. 27, 2004.
(2000): "Illicit drug use is associated with suicide, homicide, motor-vehicle injury, HIV infection, pneumonia, violence, mental illness, and hepatitis. An estimated 3 million individuals in the United States have serious drug problems. Several studies have reported an undercount of the number of deaths attributed to drugs by vital statistics; however, improved medical treatments have reduced mortality from many diseases associated with illicit drug use. In keeping with the report by McGinnis and Foege, we included deaths caused indirectly by illicit drug use in this category. We used attributable fractions to compute the number of deaths due to illicit drug use. Overall, we estimate that illicit drug use resulted in approximately 17000 deaths in 2000, a reduction of 3000 deaths from the 1990 report."
Source: Mokdad, Ali H., PhD, James S. Marks, MD, MPH, Donna F. Stroup, PhD, MSc, Julie L. Gerberding, MD, MPH, "Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000," Journal of the American Medical Association, March 10, 2004, Vol. 291, No. 10, p. 1242.
(1996): "Each year, use of NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs) accounts for an estimated 7,600 deaths and 76,000 hospitalizations in the United States." (NSAIDs include aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, diclofenac, ketoprofen, and tiaprofenic acid.)
Source: Robyn Tamblyn, PhD; Laeora Berkson, MD, MHPE, FRCPC; W. Dale Jauphinee, MD, FRCPC; David Gayton, MD, PhD, FRCPC; Roland Grad, MD, MSc; Allen Huang, MD, FRCPC; Lisa Isaac, PhD; Peter McLeod, MD, FRCPC; and Linda Snell, MD, MHPE, FRCPC, "Unnecessary Prescribing of NSAIDs and the Management of NSAID-Related Gastropathy in Medical Practice," Annals of Internal Medicine (Washington, DC: American College of Physicians, 1997), September 15, 1997, 127:429-438, from the web at http://www.acponline.org/journals/annals/15sep97/nsaid.htm, last accessed Feb. 14, 2001, citing Fries, JF, "Assessing and understanding patient risk," Scandinavian Journal of Rheumatology Supplement, 1992;92:21-4.
An exhaustive search of the literature finds no credible reports of deaths induced by marijuana. The US Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) records instances of drug mentions in medical examiners' reports, and though marijuana is mentioned, it is usually in combination with alcohol or other drugs. Marijuana alone has not been shown to cause an overdose death.
Source: Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN), available on the web at http://www.samhsa.gov/; also see Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A. Benson, Jr., "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999), available on the web at http://www.nap.edu/html/marimed/; and US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition" (Docket #86-22), September 6, 1988, p. 57.
QuoteDo I think it should be legalized? I don't know. I struggle with it. I don't think it is harmless, but I also think alcohol rivals, if not worse than, marijuana. I think it should definitely be decriminalized to a misdeamenor (unless you are toting 20 lbs of it).
I am just wondering why you would have no problem with lowering the drinking age when alcohol has killed millions of people over the years while being on the fence about mj which has killed zero people over the years. Read on... the numbers speak for themselves... even the toll of all illicit drug deaths (not including mj) is far lower than alcohol.
Annual Causes of Death in the United States
Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000,
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0
(2000): "The leading causes of death in 2000 were tobacco (435,000 deaths; 18.1% of total US deaths),
poor diet and physical inactivity (400,000 deaths; 16.6%),
and alcohol consumption (85,000 deaths; 3.5%). Other actual causes of death were microbial agents (75,000),
toxic agents (55,000),
motor vehicle crashes (43,000),
incidents involving firearms (29,000),
sexual behaviors (20,000),
and illicit use of drugs (17,000)."
(Note: According to a correction published by the Journal on Jan. 19, 2005, "On page 1240, in Table 2, '400,000 (16.6)' deaths for 'poor diet and physical inactivity' in 2000 should be '365,000 (15.2).' A dagger symbol should be added to 'alcohol consumption' in the body of the table and a dagger footnote should be added with 'in 1990 data, deaths from alcohol-related crashes are included in alcohol consumption deaths, but not in motor vehicle deaths. In 2000 data, 16,653 deaths from alcohol-related crashes are included in both alcohol consumption and motor vehicle death categories." Source: Journal of the American Medical Association, Jan. 19, 2005, Vol. 293, No. 3, p. 298.)
Source: Mokdad, Ali H., PhD, James S. Marks, MD, MPH, Donna F. Stroup, PhD, MSc, Julie L. Gerberding, MD, MPH, "Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000," Journal of the American Medical Association, March 10, 2004, Vol. 291, No. 10, pp. 1238, 1241.
(Average 1982-1998): According to Canadian researchers, approximately 32,000 hospitalized patients (and possibly as many as 106,000) in the USA die each year because of adverse reactions to their prescribed medications.
Source: Lazarou, J, Pomeranz, BH, Corey, PN, "Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients: a meta-analysis of prospective studies," Journal of the American Medical Association (Chicago, IL: American Medical Association, 1998), 1998;279:1200-1205, also letters column, "Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients," JAMA (Chicago, IL: AMA, 1998), Nov. 25, 1998, Vol. 280, No. 20, from the web at http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v280n20/ffull/jlt1125-1.html, last accessed Feb. 12, 2001.
(2001): The US Centers for Disease Control reports that in 2001, there were a total of 30,622 deaths from suicide in the US.
Source: Arias, Elizabeth, Ph.D.; Robert N. Anderson, Ph.D.; Hsiang-Ching Kung, Ph.D.; Sherry L. Murphy, B.S.; Kenneth D. Kochanek, M.A.; Division of Vital Statistics, "Deaths: Final Data for 2001," National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 50, No. 3 (Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics, Sept. 18, 2003), Table C, p. 8, from the web at http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_03.pdf, last accessed Jan. 27, 2004.
(2001): The US Centers for Disease Control reports that in 2001, there were a total of 20,308 deaths from homicide in the US.
Source: Arias, Elizabeth, Ph.D.; Robert N. Anderson, Ph.D.; Hsiang-Ching Kung, Ph.D.; Sherry L. Murphy, B.S.; Kenneth D. Kochanek, M.A.; Division of Vital Statistics, "Deaths: Final Data for 2001," National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 50, No. 3 (Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics, Sept. 18, 2003), Table C, p. 8, from the web at http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_03.pdf, last accessed Jan. 27, 2004.
(2000): "Illicit drug use is associated with suicide, homicide, motor-vehicle injury, HIV infection, pneumonia, violence, mental illness, and hepatitis. An estimated 3 million individuals in the United States have serious drug problems. Several studies have reported an undercount of the number of deaths attributed to drugs by vital statistics; however, improved medical treatments have reduced mortality from many diseases associated with illicit drug use. In keeping with the report by McGinnis and Foege, we included deaths caused indirectly by illicit drug use in this category. We used attributable fractions to compute the number of deaths due to illicit drug use. Overall, we estimate that illicit drug use resulted in approximately 17000 deaths in 2000, a reduction of 3000 deaths from the 1990 report."
Source: Mokdad, Ali H., PhD, James S. Marks, MD, MPH, Donna F. Stroup, PhD, MSc, Julie L. Gerberding, MD, MPH, "Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000," Journal of the American Medical Association, March 10, 2004, Vol. 291, No. 10, p. 1242.
(1996): "Each year, use of NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs) accounts for an estimated 7,600 deaths and 76,000 hospitalizations in the United States." (NSAIDs include aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, diclofenac, ketoprofen, and tiaprofenic acid.)
Source: Robyn Tamblyn, PhD; Laeora Berkson, MD, MHPE, FRCPC; W. Dale Jauphinee, MD, FRCPC; David Gayton, MD, PhD, FRCPC; Roland Grad, MD, MSc; Allen Huang, MD, FRCPC; Lisa Isaac, PhD; Peter McLeod, MD, FRCPC; and Linda Snell, MD, MHPE, FRCPC, "Unnecessary Prescribing of NSAIDs and the Management of NSAID-Related Gastropathy in Medical Practice," Annals of Internal Medicine (Washington, DC: American College of Physicians, 1997), September 15, 1997, 127:429-438, from the web at http://www.acponline.org/journals/annals/15sep97/nsaid.htm, last accessed Feb. 14, 2001, citing Fries, JF, "Assessing and understanding patient risk," Scandinavian Journal of Rheumatology Supplement, 1992;92:21-4.
An exhaustive search of the literature finds no credible reports of deaths induced by marijuana. The US Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) records instances of drug mentions in medical examiners' reports, and though marijuana is mentioned, it is usually in combination with alcohol or other drugs. Marijuana alone has not been shown to cause an overdose death.
Source: Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN), available on the web at http://www.samhsa.gov/; also see Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A. Benson, Jr., "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999), available on the web at http://www.nap.edu/html/marimed/; and US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition" (Docket #86-22), September 6, 1988, p. 57.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
The drinking age should range between: about 3 weeks for a Hefeweizen, but at least 3 months for an Imperial Stout, preferably longer.
Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Cudlo 0
relating to the "if im old enough to fight for my country, i should be able to drink!" ... heh... yeah.. tax dollars were actually paying for me to get drunk when I was 18. Gotta love those company dine-outs with open bars. All ya gotta do is sign on 53 dotted lines and initial in 187 places (i think they intentionally make the enlistment contract the size of "War and Peace" so you won't be tempted to actually read it).
_________________________________________
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard
Tonto 1
It's 18 here. Always has been. I see no problem with that.
t
t
It's the year of the Pig.
[url]If you want to discuss the marijuana issue, let's take it back to the appropriate thread. Your post has nothing to do with drinking age. I will agree that alcohol is harmful. No doubt about it. None of your stats (which could be bent any way: and as we all argued about the validity of research on the last thread) specify the age of first alcohol use or if it was underage persons. "alcohol related" also means that alcohol was simply in their system. It does not mean that they were over the legal limit or that they were DRUNK. This distorts those statistics significantly. It would be similar to saying the cause of someone's accident was caused by marijauna use, simply because it came up in a toxicology report; even if it had been several days since someone smoked mj. So, they do not list mj as the cause because of the long half life and the difficulty narrowing down that single variable. Accidents and deaths are often attributable to alcohol if there is ANY alcohol in the system. If someone has a .03 blood alcohol level and crashes, it is documented as "alcohol related" (note it is not reported "alcohol caused", but we all view it that way). Now, I know that drinking and driving is a very serious issue and am not downplaying it. We don't need to expand the numbers by "alcohol related" stats to get a point across. I know two close people paralyzed driving drunk,..both were in their mid-twenties, and both only started drinking at the legal age of 21. So drinking age did not affect or cause their bad decision.
I do not think alcohol by any means is safe. I do think though, that if people are considered adults at age 18, are responsible enough to patrol the streets of Baghdad getting shot at, responsible enough to sign into contracts, responsible enough to vote, responsible enough to be tried as an adult,..then they are responsible enough to decide to drink. If we don't think they can drink responsibly at 18, then the age requirements for military service, voting, signing contracts etc,..should all be raised to 21.
I do not think alcohol by any means is safe. I do think though, that if people are considered adults at age 18, are responsible enough to patrol the streets of Baghdad getting shot at, responsible enough to sign into contracts, responsible enough to vote, responsible enough to be tried as an adult,..then they are responsible enough to decide to drink. If we don't think they can drink responsibly at 18, then the age requirements for military service, voting, signing contracts etc,..should all be raised to 21.
Jen
Also, just like pointing out statistics that only prove YOUR point, you chose to quote only one paragraph I wrote in that thread and conveniently omitted the following statements I also made:
I have never once stated that we should 1. keep it illegal and 2. keep it illegal because it is harmful. Quite the contrary. I have several posts in here referring to policy and what has shaped the drug policy. ......
Again, I have NEVER stated that it should be illegal BECAUSE it is harmful. I think I have even alluded to tobacco and alcohol being harmful. I keep reiterating my point in every post that my whole point in stating the adverse effects was to dispell a common myth, and one that has come out on this thread, of it being harmless. It's not. And I know that there were racist and big company movements behind early legislation of making it illegal.
Now that I have cleared up your misconception of
Are you not the same person who has a problem with legalizing mj for adults (21yo)***
If you want to discuss MJ again, take it back to that thread.
Quotehave never mentioned one way or another if it should be legalized. I am just attempting to dispell the myth of it being a harmless drug. I would say similar things about *legal* drugs of alcohol and tobacco too. It just hits my nerve when people use the argument of its being harmless and "God grown in the ground" as basis for their argument because both of these statements resemble little truth to the reality of the drug....
it likely has more to do with big industry and companies (that's who drives policy). This is about policy, not research.
QuoteI am still on the fence of the legalization aspect, because it is much about policy and economics than anything else. It's not illegal solely for its effects (read my earlier posts about history of drug policy). I guess my post was more of a general statement that has many sides to argue. I never stated that "it is a gateway drug and therefore should be illegal". That is totally taking my posts out of context. I just am trying (as I have stated before) to dispell the myth that it is harmless. And yes, alcohol and tobacco are harmful too,..again refer to my post about drug policy history.
I have never once stated that we should 1. keep it illegal and 2. keep it illegal because it is harmful. Quite the contrary. I have several posts in here referring to policy and what has shaped the drug policy. ......
Again, I have NEVER stated that it should be illegal BECAUSE it is harmful. I think I have even alluded to tobacco and alcohol being harmful. I keep reiterating my point in every post that my whole point in stating the adverse effects was to dispell a common myth, and one that has come out on this thread, of it being harmless. It's not. And I know that there were racist and big company movements behind early legislation of making it illegal.
QuoteIf you read my earlier posts, you will see that I have already adressed the legal aspect! I never said it should be illegal. I was simply dispelling people's arguments that it is harmless.
The whole addiction/withdrawal argument has to do with disagreement about the harmful effects, not the legality of it. Please read all my posts before making a general comment like that!
QuoteI agree with this post. Alcohol is a very damaging drug as well.
I think education for all drugs is key. I think there are a lot of misconceptions and myths about drugs, especially marijuana.....I am not completely against legalizing it and regulating it either.
Now that I have cleared up your misconception of
Are you not the same person who has a problem with legalizing mj for adults (21yo)***
If you want to discuss MJ again, take it back to that thread.
Jen
I'm not a republican and I refer to him that way. Unlike your other two examples, he did prove himself in a large scale governmental function. The actor slam is intended to suggest otherwise.
And certainly anyone out of the UC system will remember him better for his policies than for his movies. I've never seen one myself.
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