Jumping with White People Rocks

[Zenister 0]

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so 'bonding' is ok, but 'services offered' is bad. What about when the two are tied together?

how many would have issues with a DZ giving left-handed jumpers $14 jumps while righthanders were $18? 14 and 20? 10 and 20? At what point financially, does discrimination become a issue for you?

PM sent. This thread is not my own and my position has been explained in my previous thread. I have answered your particular question in a pm to you, but it is not appropriate here because it has been well discussed, the thread was locked and I don't want to get this one locked.

its the same issue, but there should be no reason why we should be unable to discuss it without getting this thread locked....

we've managed to agree that discrimination happens daily in many aspects of life, that really 'discrimination' is the perception of difference, and recognizing the things that you have in common with a group (and so excluding those without that denominator) is a means of bonding. However, when it becomes more than simple perception, when there is a quantifiable benefit to those being included vs those being excluded?

at what point is it offensive to nearly everyone? and does the standard differ depending on what/who is being discriminated against?

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Steel 0]

Actually, this club would still be about how you were born. Only a couple body types can ever achieve that sort of distortion of waist to chest.
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I understand that genetics would play a minor part. But I really don't think that a .75 ratio is that difficult to achieve. Arnold at his prime had a .56, Zane had a .65, and even before all the modern training methods & equipment were around (at the end of the 19th century) Sandow was sporting a .68 ratio. Pics are there.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[ladyskydiver 0]

Off topic, but - Ick! Too much of a V look. A nicely toned and musclar body is very nice to look at, but there is such a thing as too much - and those pics - too much.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[kelpdiver 2]

Citing Arnold is hardly representative of the general population - we're talking about a legend (if not The legend) in the body building world.

An ectomorph will never achieve .75, while the mesomorph has it easily. The endomorph has trouble just staying good on the weight scale.

Most people are a blend of two of these body types, but it's still a matter of genetics if you want the V shape. Shoulder and pelvic bone width is set from the beginning, from there you can try to sculpt the muscles on top.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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at what point is it offensive to nearly everyone? and does the standard differ depending on what/who is being discriminated against?

Only a worldwide survey could help determine this. Everyone's level of tolerance toward discrimination is different... just like everyone's idea of discrimination is different. I would say, in many/most cases, that yes, people perceive discrimination much differently depending on who is being singled out. Hence this thread by crwmike which obviously showed us that the difference between white-only and women in this particular case is huge. Thing is, if it were black-only, or other-skydiving-minority only, maybe a few would complain, but most would likely accept it as bonding due to the small number of participants it would draw out of the whole. Myself, I would have no problem with a black-only skydive being organized because I think i've personally seen one black person skydive, and it was tandem, so it could certainly be accepted that they want to attempt to meet up and do a skydive. But, lets face it, most skydives are white-only, and more particularly, white men only, because the majority in this sport are white men.

But, my answer to your question is I can't speak for everyone.

Angela.

[livendive 8]

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I find it funny that 2% are members, about 25% claim to be members and 75% have a total lack of interest in being associated.
(Perhaps they are the smart one's. )

2% of the world population are *eligible* to join, however less than 0.1% of those who are eligble are actually current members (less than 0.002% of the world population).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Ron 10]

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2% of the world population are *eligible* to join, however less than 0.1% of those who are eligble are actually current members (less than 0.002% of the world population).

I find it funny that people CARE. All you get is a neat membership card and a newsletter.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kelel01 1]

And in my Dad's case . . . a "defeated" (as in the opposite of "undefeated") softball team.

Kelly

[Ron 10]

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And in my Dad's case . . . a "defeated" (as in the opposite of "undefeated") softball team

You didn't think a bunch of Brainiacs were gonna do good did you?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[livendive 8]

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2% of the world population are *eligible* to join, however less than 0.1% of those who are eligble are actually current members (less than 0.002% of the world population).

I find it funny that people CARE. All you get is a neat membership card and a newsletter.

Mostly agreed. Some people get a kick out of whatever SIGs they belong to, but that's about the only reason I can see for paying the dues. Personally, I get all the SIG-like interaction I want from skydiving.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[foxyroxtail 0]

[reply
Chicks Rock, etc is about comraderie/fun.

Fraternities/Sororities have a different function. They provide tutoring, mentoring, and social functions that may impact your business future after graduation. Membership in a fraternity is more than social. Frats have job connections. The two are different situations.

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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There is a fundamental flaw in your exercise. It didn't explore motive, it explored a single statement. It's not the statement that people found offensive in your post and not in the women's, it's the perceived motive.

When a woman says that she loves jumping with other women and all female jumps rock, the perception (by most people) is one of camraderie. It's not a statement to exclude a group of people, it's to express sisterhood.

When someone says they love jumping with white people and white only jumps are great, the perception is different. Here, the perception is one of exclusion because the phrase "white only" has come to stand for racism and discrimination.

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Perception. Yes! I agree with you. They are perceived differently. Why do you think that is, Phil?
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Basically because of conditioning and mind set. Whether the discrimination still exists or not, the subject of sexism is not a burning sociological issue in the US these days. Race, however, is. And furthermore, you're comparing an all woman jump to all white jump. You're comparing a group that was the opressed party, versus the group that was a privelaged party.

Apples and oranges.

***Damn dude, that's not thinking inside the box ...that ain't thinking at all. Get back to me when society tells you it's important.

Just because I recognize reality, doesn't mean I adhere to it. Thanks for the insult, though.

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And furthermore, if you want an example of someone pushing the collective mindset and encouraging adherence to societal standards, look for people who try to elliminate any method of classifying people and turning everyone into a completely equal, non-unique cog.

Most people have their own ideas about life and society. There aren't 2 sides, The Man vs. Mike. If people have a different opinion than your's, it doesn't make them an ipso facto tool of society. Not trying to come down on you, but your posts seem to be very judgmental of anyone who shares an opinion with anyone else.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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PhillyKev, prepare to be shocked, but, regarding the topic discussed in this thread, I agree completely with what you have written. I agree with EVERY SINGLE WORD.

Seriously, you have done an excellent job conveying your thoughts and beliefs. Cheers!

Aww crap. Did you have to say that? Now we gotta live with him for the next week or two.

[PhillyKev 0]

come on...you know you want to agree with me too. It only hurts the first time.

[winsor 236]

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Mike I have a feeling you are going to continue to meet a wall of resistance to your post. Obviously the original post in the women's forum didn't bother anyone but you. Also I am sure the way you went about trying to prove your point offended some of the african american skydivers out there. I would love to hear some of them chime in and let you know how it made them feel reading this post.

Most of the African and African-American skydivers I know are Caucasians. Are you, by any chance, trying to refer to Negroes by that description?

Mincing words accomplishes nothing. If the terminology was good enough for Martin Luther King, Jr., it's good enough for me.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[winsor 236]

I have been a Mensa member since I was 25. There is no discrimination on the basis of sex, race, creed, national origin. People within the group have religious or political affliliations, but no agenda is supported by the organization.

(edited for spelling)

[happythoughts 0]

It's an exclusionary society founded to weed out irritating grammar nazis.

[winsor 236]

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I have been a Mensa member since I was 25. There is no discrimination on the basis of sex, race, creed, national origin. People within the group have religious or political affliliations, but no agenda is supported by the organization.

(edited for spelling)

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anybody else find that funny?

I find it funny that 2% are members, about 25% claim to be members and 75% have a total lack of interest in being associated.
(Perhaps they are the smart one's. )

The only legitimate reason for Mensa membership is to get laid.

Brilliant women are much better in bed. Trust me.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[winsor 236]

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Actually, this club would still be about how you were born. Only a couple body types can ever achieve that sort of distortion of waist to chest.
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I understand that genetics would play a minor part. But I really don't think that a .75 ratio is that difficult to achieve.

Out of shape (like now) I have a 30" waist and 42" chest; in shape it's 30" and 44".

Do I qualify?

[Steel 0]

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Actually, this club would still be about how you were born. Only a couple body types can ever achieve that sort of distortion of waist to chest.
=====================================
I understand that genetics would play a minor part. But I really don't think that a .75 ratio is that difficult to achieve.

Out of shape (like now) I have a 30" waist and 42" chest; in shape it's 30" and 44".

Do I qualify?

yes 30/42 = .71 but you also have to be in the strongest 2%. I am not sure yet how this should be judged probably with the power lifting standard max bench + max squat + max deadlift. A powerlifter freind once told me that to be competitive you had to be able to get atleast 1400, which sucks cause I can't get that high but I am sure that 98% of the general population (not people who work out) will not break 1,000.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[billvon 3,031]

>The only legitimate reason for Mensa membership is to get laid.

I found that just being a skydiver worked remarkably well. I was often warned by my friends to not expound on the inadequacices of the Long Island power grid while we were out cruising for women; they were of the opinion that women don't like that sort of thing. I suppose it depends on the woman.

[winsor 236]

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Actually, this club would still be about how you were born. Only a couple body types can ever achieve that sort of distortion of waist to chest.
=====================================
I understand that genetics would play a minor part. But I really don't think that a .75 ratio is that difficult to achieve.

Out of shape (like now) I have a 30" waist and 42" chest; in shape it's 30" and 44".

Do I qualify?

yes 30/42 = .71 but you also have to be in the strongest 2%.

Okay, if I don't take a shower for a couple of days I'm sure to be in the strongest 2%.