Fairenheit 9/11 review

[Nightingale 0]

wasn't the movie already made by February of '04? the deadline for submission to Cannes is March 15, so the movie would have had to be done or almost done by that point.

[mardigrasbob 0]

Quote

I want exact quotes and exact sites from which you are getting this information.

This Week, ABC News, June 20, 2004

George Stephanopoulos, of ABC News, is of course part of the vast right-wing conspiracy!

Your Turn!


-----

[mardigrasbob 0]

Not to be a post-whore but here is a list of Congresional Veterans:

Joe Baca (D-42 CA)
U.S. Army 1966-1968

Spencer Bachus (R-06 AL)
National Guard 1969-1971

Cass Ballenger (R-10 NC)
U.S. Navy 1944-1945

Doug Bereuter (R-01 NE)
U.S. Army 1963-1965

Michael Bilirakis (R-09 FL)
U.S. Air Force 1951-1953

Sanford D. Bishop (D-02 GA)
U.S. Army 1971

Sherwood L. Boehlert (R-24 NY)
U.S. Army 1956-1958

John Boehner (R-08 OH)
U.S. Navy 1968

#Leonard L. Boswell (D-03 IA)
U.S. Army 1956-1976

#Allen Boyd, Jr. (D-02 FL)
U.S. Army 1969-1971

Dan Burton (R-05 IN)
U.S. Army 1957-1958
Army Reserves 1958-1962

Stephen E. Buyer (R-04 IN)
U.S. Army 1984-1987, 1990
Army Reserve 1980-1984, 1987-Present

Howard Coble (R-06 NC)
Coast Guard 1952-1956, 1977-1978
Coast Guard Reserve 1960-1982


John Conyers (D-14 MI)
National Guard 1948-1950
U.S. Army 1950-1954
Army Reserve 1954-1957

Robert E. Cramer, Jr. (D-05 AL)
U.S. Army 1972
Army Reserves 1976-1978

Philip Crane (R-08 IL)
U.S. Army 1954-1956

#Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R-51 CA)
U.S. Navy 1966-1987

Thomas M. Davis (R-11 VA)
U.S. Army 1971-1972
Army Reserves 1972-1979

Nathan Deal (R-09 GA)
U.S. Army 1966-1968

Peter A. DeFazio (D-04 OR)
U.S. Air Force 1967-1971

William D. Delahunt (D-10 MA)
Coast Guard Reserve 1963-1971

John D. Dingell (D-16 MI)
U.S. Army 1945-1946

John F. Duncan, Jr. (R-02 TN)
Army Reserve 1970-1987

Bob Etheridge (D-02 NC)
U.S. Army 1965-1967

Lane Evans (D-17 IL)
U.S. Marines 1969-1971

Terry Everett (R-02 AL)
U.S. Air Force 1955-1959

Ernest L. Fletcher (R-06 KY)
U.S. Air Force 1974-1980

#Rodney P. Frelinghuysen (R-11 NJ)
U.S. Army 1969-1971

Martin Frost (D-24 TX)
Army Reserves 1966-1972

Richard A. Gephardt (D-03 MO)
National Guard 1965-1971

Jim Gibbons (R-02 NV)
U.S. Air Force 1967-1971
National Guard 1975-1996
Active Duty 1990-91

#Wayne T. Gilchrest (R-01 MD)
U.S. Marines 1964-1967

Paul Gillmor (R-05 OH)
U.S. Air Force 1965-1966

Charles A. Gonzales (D-20 TX)
National Guard 1969-1975

Virgil H. Goode, Jr. (R-05 VA)
National Guard 1969-1975

Bart Gordon (D-6 TN)
US Army Reserve 1971-72

Porter J. Goss (R-14 FL)
U.S. Army 1960-1962

Ralph M. Hall (D-04 TX)
U.S. Navy 1942-1945

Doc Hastings (R-04 WA)
Army Reserves 1964-1969

David L. Hobson (R-07 OH)
National Guard 1958-1963

Joseph M. Hoeffel (D-13 PA)
Army Reserves 1970-1976

#Duncan Hunter (R-52 CA)
U.S. Army 1969-1971

Henry Hyde (R-06 IL)
U.S. Navy 1942-1946
Navy Reserves 1946-1948

William J. Jefferson (D-02 LA)
U.S. Army 1969-1972
Army Reserve 1975

William L. Jenkins (R-01 TN)
National Guard 1970-1987

#Sam Johnson (R-03 TX)
U.S. Air Force 1951-1979

Walter B. Jones, Jr. (R-03 NC)
National Guard 1967-1971

Paul E. Kanjorski (D-11 PA)
U.S. Army 1960-1961

Peter King (R-03 NY)
National Guard 1968-1973

Gerald D. Kleczka (D-04 WI)
National Guard 1963-1969

#John Kline (R-02 MN)
USMC 1969-1974

Jim Kolbe (R-05 AZ)
U.S. Navy 1965-1969
Navy Reserves 1970-1977

Ron Lewis (R-02 KY)
U.S. Navy 1973

John Linder (R-7 GA)
US Air Force 1967-69

William Lipinski (D-03 IL)
Army Reserves 1961-1967

Ken Lucas (D-04 KY)
U.S. Air Force 1955-1957
National Guard 1957-1967

Edward J. Markey (D-07 MA)
Army Reserves 1968-1973

#James Marshall U.S. Army 1968-1970

Jim McDermott (D-07 WA)
U.S. Navy 1968-1970

Alan Mollohan (D-01 WV)
U.S. Army 1970
Army Reserves 1970-1983

Dennis Moore (D-03 KS)
U.S. Army 1970
Army Reserves 1970-1972

#John Murtha (D-12 PA)
U.S. Marines 1952-1955, 1966-1967
Marines Reserve 1967-1990

#Charlie Norwood (R-9 GA)
U.S. Army 1967-1969

Soloman P. Ortiz (D-27 TX)
U.S. Army 1960-1962

Thomas Osborne (R-3 NE)
National Guard 1960-1966

C.L. "Butch" Otter (R-1 ID)
Army National Guard 1968-1973

William Pascrell, Jr. (D-08 NJ)
U.S. Army 1961
Army Reserves 1962-1967

Ron Paul (R-14 TX)
U.S. Air Force 1963-1965
National Guard 1965-1968

Collin C. Peterson (D-07 MN)
National Guard 1963-1969

John E. Peterson (R-05 PA)
U.S. Army 1957
Army Reserves 1958-1963

#Joseph R. Pitts (R-16 PA)
U.S. Air Force 1963-1969

Jim Ramstad (R-03 MN)
Army Reserves 1968-1974

#Charles B. Rangel (D-15 NY)
U.S. Army 1948-1952

Ralph Regula (R-16 OH)
U.S. Navy 1944-1946

#Silvestre Reyes (D-16 TX)
U.S. Army 1966-1968

Harold Rogers (R-05 KY)
National Guard 1957-1964

Mike Rogers (R-8 MI)
US Army 1985-89

Bobby Rush (D-01 IL)
U.S. Army 1963-1968

Ed Schrock (R-2 VA)
US Navy 1964-1988

Robert C. Scott (D-03 VA)
Army Reserves 1970-1974
National Guard 1974-1976

Jose E. Serrano (D-16 NY)
U.S. Army 1964-1966

Donald R. Sherwood (R-10 PA)
U.S. Army 1964-1966

John Shimkus (R-19 IL)
U.S. Army 1980-1984
Army Reserves 1987-Present

Nick Smith (R-07 MI)
U.S. Air Force 1959-1961

#Vic Snyder (D-02 AR)
U.S. Marines 1967-1969

John M. Spratt, Jr. (D-05 SC)
U.S. Army 1969-1971

Fortney P. Stark (D-13 CA)
U.S. Air Force 1955-1957

Cliff Stearns (R-06 FL)
U.S. Air Force 1963-1967

John S. Tanner (D-08 TN)
U.S. Navy 1968-1972
National Guard 1974-2000

Gene Taylor (D-05 MS)
Coast Guard Reserve 1971-1984

#Mike Thompson (D-01 CA)
U.S. Army 1968-1969

Edolphus Towns (D-10 NY)
U.S. Army 1956-1958

Jim Turner (D-02 TX)
Army Reserves 1972-1978
U.S. Army 1978

Dave Weldon (R-15 FL)
U.S. Army 1981-1987
Army Reserves 1987-1992

Ed Whitfield (R-01 KY)
Army Reserve 1967-1970

Roger F. Wicker (R-01 MS)
U.S. Air Force 1976-1980
Air Force Reserve 1980-Present

Heather A. Wilson (R-01 NM)
U.S. Air Force 1978-1989
*Only woman veteran in Congress.

Joe Wilson (R-2 SC)
US Army Reserve 1972-75

Frank R. Wolf (R-10 VA)
U.S. Army 1962-1963
Army Reserves 1963-1967

C.W. Bill Young (R-10 FL)
National Guard 1948-1957

Don Young (R-All AK)
U.S. Army 1955-1957



------------------------------------------------------------

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

that he had a nephew who was en-route to Afghanistan. He went on to inform Moore that his son was thinking about a career in the navy and that two of his nephews had already served in the armed forces. Kennedy�s side of the conversation, however, was cut from the film, leaving him looking bewildered and defensive.

If you'd seen the movie, you'd be able to judge for yourself. You'd also know what you were talking about.

Moore did not cut that from the movie. He states it in the voice-over at the start of the scene involving the congressmen.

Geeze.... Watch the movie. The critique it. In that order.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[mardigrasbob 0]

Quote

Geeze.... Watch the movie. The critique it. In that order.

Geeze....Why do liberals, when faced with facts, resort to calling their opponents liars?

[billvon 2,998]

>Geeze....Why do liberals, when faced with facts, resort to calling their opponents liars?

No one was calling you a liar. You will just be better informed on the contents of the movie if you watch it. Not an outlandish concept.

[mardigrasbob 0]

Please don't start pulling my posts again!
If you would follow the thread and read all all of them instead of the last couple you would see my point!

Quote

No one was calling you a liar. You will just be better informed on the contents of the movie if you watch it.

Quote

>Maybe you should read it before you slam it?

Nonsense! Conservatives don't need to see F911 before slamming it, why should liberals be any different?

Please go back and read the forum.
I thought moderators, like judges, should be fair and unbiased.

[AndyMan 7]

Work with me here.

First, you posted this:

Quote

Want to see my ticket stub? Only thing I bought a ticket to Spiderman and went into F911. I did not want that asshole to get a dime from me T

I understand that to mean that you didn't see the movie.

You quoted the Kansas Star (i think), who claimed Moore did not acknowledge the congressman's nephew.

Then I chastised you for criticising something you hadn't seen. I told you when I watched the movie, I clearly heard Moore credit the congressmans nephew in the voiceover.

I did not call you a liar. I chastised you for not knowing what you're talking about.

I thought the inference was clear: that you should be more careful about your sources. First hand accounts are always best, if you want to be taken seriously.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Ron 10]

Quote

I understand that to mean that you didn't see the movie.

Well then you must have missed this part:

Quote

Want to see my ticket stub? Only thing I bought a ticket to Spiderman and went into F911. I did not want that asshole to get a dime from me T

I read that as he SAW F911 but payed to see another movie so MM would not get any money for it...

BTW a few friends of mine went to go see "White Chicks" and the tickets they were sold were for F911....

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[AndyMan 7]

1. Open mouth.

2. Insert foot.

3. Remove foot.

4. Season to taste.

5. Re-Insert foot.

6. Enjoy.

D'oh!

Ok, I'll shut up now.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[mardigrasbob 0]

Sorry for the misunderstanding! This shows the divide in views. I stated in the next line that there were employees stationed at the door to prevent "people from doing what I did". I thought that I was clear that I had snuck in. I also stated that I actually like the movie, not for it's editorial content but for it's imagery. Also, I did not say you called me a liar. I was trying to make a biting observation in general.
I will now take a break from this thread and go on to more important things like: Why is 7-up called Coke in Biloxi. Again Sorry- Blue skies!!
-Bob-

--

[quade 4]

Quote

I thought moderators, like judges, should be fair and unbiased.

And when it comes to enforcing the Forum Rules we do our best toward those goals.

Believe it or not, we actually have little internal debates sometimes on the actions we should take. Other times we act swiftly and unilaterally. It's all situationally dependent.

That said . . . we all have our own minds and just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that we don't. Everyone is, within the boundries of the Forum Rules, allowed to voice their opinions -- Moderators included.

As a personal policy, I give people a LOT more slack in attacking me personally than I ever would give them in attacking someone else. I would -never- simply remove a post because I didn't agree with someone's opinion. If you believe that one of the Moderators has -abused- their power. Let us know. We're not above the Rules.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[larskjargaard 0]

Perhaps the whole point of the movie was simply Mr. Moore expressing his hatred and contemptment for G.W.B. and the boys or perhaps it was simply to promote thinking and disscussion about the situstion in Iraq.
while we sit at our computers discussing hypothetical legel situations,whos a fat liar, and someone's nephiew who served in the military both from the left and right nothing is changing. People's families are being blown to scraps and gunned down everyday.If this war is really justified the white house has a responsibility to bloody well prove itself yet people are more content to discuss footnote issues.As a very powerful nation America has been doing things that effect the entire world. Its not as if people of Iraq have any say in who sits in the white house yet look at how the Bush administration can drasticaly change their lives with a few choices.
Powerful nations have a responsibility to look out for others. The left and right will never meet in the middle or get along for that matter, thus is the nature of the system. What the world and humanity need now is to force the truth. I'm very sure Bush supporters want to know the truth as much as the people whom he pisses off.

[billvon 2,998]

>I thought moderators, like judges, should be fair and unbiased.

I'm not going to become a conservative just so I can agree with more people on this board, nor am I going to pretend to agree with people when I don't. However, when I do act as moderator (i.e. lock threads, ban people etc) I do so in accordance with the rules that Sangiro has set up. If you think I'm not doing that, by all means send Sangiro a PM about how I'm being too draconian or biased, and perhaps he will replace me with someone more to your liking. Or post on rec.skydiving; there are no moderators there to keep people from attacking each other, and you will not have to watch what you say.

[mardigrasbob 0]

Quote

>I thought moderators, like judges, should be fair and unbiased.

I'm not going to become a conservative just so I can agree with more people on this board, nor am I going to pretend to agree with people when I don't. However, when I do act as moderator (i.e. lock threads, ban people etc) I do so in accordance with the rules that Sangiro has set up. If you think I'm not doing that, by all means send Sangiro a PM about how I'm being too draconian or biased, and perhaps he will replace me with someone more to your liking. Or post on rec.skydiving; there are no moderators there to keep people from attacking each other, and you will not have to watch what you say.

Done!

[diablopilot 2]

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I'm being too draconian

So you're saying that's bad? I'm offended......

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Zennie 0]

And why do right-wingers immediately label those who diagree with them "liberals"?

For the record I'm a Libertarian... big difference.

Quote

Not to be a post-whore but here is a list of Congresional Veterans:

This has absolutely nothing to do with the segment of the movie being discussed.

As far as I can see, as of your post only TWO children out of the 535 members of Congress are involved in this war effort that they so overwhelmingly approved.

The point is, and you must have missed it being blinded by your partisanship, that politicians (Republicans AND Democrats) are a bunch of hypocrites who have no qualms waging wars, but leave it to the poor to actually go and do the fighting for them.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[Zennie 0]

Quote

This Week, ABC News, June 20, 2004

George Stephanopoulos, of ABC News, is of course part of the vast right-wing conspiracy!

Your Turn!

No turn necessary. What you posted proves nothing to me.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

And why do right-wingers immediately label those who diagree with them "liberals"?

For the record I'm a Libertarian... big difference.

Quote

Not to be a post-whore but here is a list of Congresional Veterans:

This has absolutely nothing to do with the segment of the movie being discussed.

As far as I can see, as of your post only TWO children out of the 535 members of Congress are involved in this war effort that they so overwhelmingly approved.

The point is, and you must have missed it being blinded by your partisanship, that politicians (Republicans AND Democrats) are a bunch of hypocrites who have no qualms waging wars, but leave it to the poor to actually go and do the fighting for them.

Lets see:

Population of the US=300 million or so
Number of troops in Iraq 135,000 approx
Ration to population 1 in approx 2200

Number in Senate & House= 535
Family members in Iraq = 2
Ratio to population = 1 in approx 267

Yep Moore lies.

[Zennie 0]

Quote

Population of the US=300 million or so
Number of troops in Iraq 135,000 approx
Ration to population 1 in approx 2200

Number in Senate & House= 535
Family members in Iraq = 2
Ratio to population = 1 in approx 267

Ummm.... ratio of rich Washington politicos kids to remaining poor slobs fighting in Iraq... 1 in approx 67500.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics...

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I saw the movie tonight and I enjoyed it. It really makes you think about the rich and the poor and how the rich have been fucking over the poor ... always have and always will. And this from someone who is educated, makes good money in corporate America and historically been a capitalist. But I'm pretty sure that once my current corporate gig is up (likely within the next 12 months as the startup company I work for doesn't have enough customers), it'll be time to cutaway (I think ... I hope).

Personally I think western society is in trouble (every dominant society in human history has fallen, so what makes America think it's any different). John Kerry for sure is not the answer. But GWB and his crownies are definitely not the solution either. This Iraq war was unjust and was a fabrication to make GWB and his friends even more rich that what they already are. And at what cost? The lives of innocent Iraqis and American service men and women. Yes Sadam was a monster. But so is GWB.

Now you're not going to sucker me into some political debate because personally I'd much rather be jumping. But we're in a vicious cycle of monsoon weather here in CO, so I had nothing else to do after work today except to check out this movie.

If you like GWB and think he's the best guy for the job. Then vote for him. It's your right. But just remember that he doesn't give a shit about the average person. All he cares about is his $$$. Then again there are too many people in America that only give a shit about $$$ and care little about the people they fuck over in the pursuit of the almighty dollar.

Time to go get my mind off of this movie as the topic at hand is pretty depressing.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SpeedRacer 1]

man there are 320 replies to this. I don't wanna read them all. could someone please just sum all of them up in a few bullet points?

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[quade 4]

Quote

man there are 320 replies to this. I don't wanna read them all. could someone please just sum all of them up in a few bullet points?

• Good -- the film as a whole. Some parts are outstanding. In particular the parts showing the human tragedy of September 11, 2001 and the last third of the movie showing the toll extracted upon the survivors of the war in Iraq. Whatever you may like or dislike about the movie, at least it starts a dialog, which, is a hell of a lot more than most films.

• Bad -- the way -some- things are presented. Some parts seem to confuse some people into thinking they are being mislead. This isn't actually the case. Everything stated as fact in the film is well documented. If anyone wanted to bring a civil case against Michael Moore for liable or slander -- they'd have an exceedingly difficult time. That said, there is some opinion and conjecture in the film and this casts a shadow over the otherwise awful truth of the purely documentary sections.

• Ugly -- nobody ever said Michael Moore, GWB or the results of terrorism or the results of war are pretty.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

If you like GWB and think he's the best guy for the job. Then vote for him. It's your right. But just remember that he doesn't give a shit about the average person. All he cares about is his $$$. Then again there are too many people in America that only give a shit about $$$ and care little about the people they fuck over in the pursuit of the almighty dollar.

Why on earth would you say this about Bush as though the same exact assessment is not equally true of Kerry?

You think a guy who married into half a billion dollars gives a flying shit about you and me either?!

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[tunaplanet 0]

Quote

man there are 320 replies to this. I don't wanna read them all. could someone please just sum all of them up in a few bullet points?

The movie is 100% fiction. If Michael Moron is not deceiving the audience with crafty editing and splicing he's outright lying and making completely false accusations.

Go see this movie for entertainment...not education.

Forty-two