cloudseeker2001 0 #51 June 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteI saw the movie while working a detail inside the theater. People are going to see what they want to see. Mr. Moore asked alot of questions and implied many things, but provided few hard facts. This was in no way a documentary, it was one sided political commentary. It was funny in some spots, like the infiltration of the peace group in Fresno, that part was cleverly done. One person came up to me and said, "what are you here for, to intimidate us liberals"? I wasn't going anywhere near that comment while working. I just laughed and told him due to the emotionally charged nature of the film the theatre hired us to prevent any problems. You saw the movie twice and this is what you have to say? Maybe you should stick to traffic......You seemed to have missed a lot of information. And too, try to read a few very good books that have been published in the last six months on these topics-Moores facts add up. So first you tell Trent to go see the movie and he will be surprised. Then Skycop says he saw it twice and you tell him to go read a few books and that he must have missed all the good information. Liberals, Go figure Actually, I am a republican and I have always voted a straight republican ticket. This will be the first time I have ever voted for a democrat. I believe the current heads of state have HIJACKED the federal government and is using it to push their own agenda, of which GWB is not even in control! So yes, go see the movie, read a few books and do some research(By the way, the 2 books I have read in the last few months were both written by republicans)..........After all, I guess that investigating for yourself is the liberal thing to do. And yes, Trent go see the movie and lets rap about it-Mercedes and I sat right behind Stevie, but did not get his point of view!.........As for you, read the words below.....you watch a lot of TV uh? "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #52 June 28, 2004 It's funny, Of the two people who disagree with me, one tells me to go do traffic, the other implies a lack of brain matter and tells me to read a book...........Hmmmm.........those are well thought out points. Thanks!!!!! I even gave Mr. Moore credit for being clever. I laughed out loud several times during the movie. Some parts were funny, both the way it was presented and in content. But I guess I'm too under educated to understand. It could show a lack of flexibility and lack of research if one was to vote a straight ticket. I very seldom EVER vote a straight ticket. I look at issues, that determines my vote, not party affiliation. Hmmmmm.....not bad for un unread, uninformed slob huh? "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #53 June 28, 2004 Trent: same offer I made to Tuna... go see it. I'll be happy to buy you a ticket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #54 June 28, 2004 I'll just buy a ticket to something like Dodgeball and go see F911, I'd rather not send my money to the "I LIKE TO PROMOTE ME! Moore fund". And yeah, Jeff... Stevie said it was funny at points but also that he can't believe someone would make a movie like that at a time like this. I gave Moore a chance with BFC, and while I didn't disagree with his premise for the most part, I found his way of presenting "facts" was absolutely infuriating and deceptive. Even the manner that he speaks to people, you can see what he's angling for and it's usually downright arrogant. Relax, I will go see it (and not pay for it) when I have time to stop doing what's much more satisfying... jumping.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #55 June 28, 2004 I have not seen BFC, so no comment there. I was responding to the topic you posted-which I think is a little off-because, if you see the report, you will probably ask a different question. Thats all. 75% of the movie details the unjust invasion of Iraq and exaclty how the Bush Family and Friends are making millions and millions off it. Not to mention GWB making a fool of himself completely with very little help from Moore! And there was some funny parts too! "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #56 June 28, 2004 You saw the movie twice and this is what you have to say? Maybe you should stick to traffic......You seemed to have missed a lot of information. And too, try to read a few very good books that have been published in the last six months on these topics-Moores facts add up. Quote I'll give you one fact that one was absolutely wrong. At the end of the movie Mr. Moore stated "Pres. tried to cut military pay by 33%." That is absolutely incorrect. I've done my homework, like I said before, people are going to see what they want to see. The one thing Mr. Moore did well in the film was put a personal face on war. That's a good thing, we all need to be reminded of that once in a while. I take Mr. Moore for what he is, his film was anything but objective. He berates news organizations in the film for doing just that. If anything this serves to embolden our enemies. Our enemies take healthy debate as weakness. Mr. Moores film was hardly healthy debate. We understand the usefulness of it, they don't. The people who want to destroy us are nothing more than fascists cloaked in Islam. To me that is the bottom line. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites joshjumps 0 #57 June 28, 2004 Unfortuneatly most folks out there accept a documentary as factual information. These are the same people who believe reality TV is reality and that wrestling is real. Michael Moore has proven in the past that distortion of fact is ok as long as his point it made. He is self-serving and downright misleading in his "documentaries" which will eventually prove him to be the liar that he is. GWB and Iraq war aside, take what Michael Moore has to say with a grain of salt. Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #58 June 28, 2004 QuoteYou forgot "FAT" A "Fat ASSHOLE" And what exactly does his size have to do with him, his opinion or politics? Also, how can anyone judge a film they haven't even seen. I saw the movie tonight. I can say that it was a very powerful movie...he does omit stuff out of convienence (ie, never once does he mention that Clark authorized the flights)....but he does go into quite a lot that makes you think. Some of it isn't even his words but actuall segments from a variety of talking heads. Some of the most powerful stuff was the personal side of the war...from some of the brainless idiots in the military (killing people is a the most extreme rush!)to those that are seasoned veterans that have seen far too much war and no longer want it. Also, the journey one mother took as well...._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #59 June 28, 2004 So first you tell Trent to go see the movie and he will be surprised. Then Skycop says he saw it twice and you tell him to go read a few books and that he must have missed all the good information. Liberals, Go figure QuoteActually, I am a republican and I have always voted a straight republican ticket. This will be the first time I have ever voted for a democrat. I believe the current heads of state have HIJACKED the federal government and is using it to push their own agenda, of which GWB is not even in control! So yes, go see the movie, read a few books and do some research(By the way, the 2 books I have read in the last few months were both written by republicans)..........After all, I guess that investigating for yourself is the liberal thing to do. And yes, Trent go see the movie and lets rap about it-Mercedes and I sat right behind Stevie, but did not get his point of view!.........As for you, read the words below.....you watch a lot of TV uh? Thank you for being so intuitive as to be able to know where I get my information from. Based on your post which excitedly encourages others to go see a movie that obviously has you titillated without a single reference to one "fact" that you have researched independent of the movie, that it is you who hasn't bothered to do any research. Why don't you take your own advice and then write a report for us about the factuality or lack of contained in the movie that we can compare against our own opinions and research (if anyone is bored enough or cares enough), instead of making a feeble, immature attempt at casting aspersions at someone who obviously doesn't share you enthusiasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joshjumps 0 #57 June 28, 2004 Unfortuneatly most folks out there accept a documentary as factual information. These are the same people who believe reality TV is reality and that wrestling is real. Michael Moore has proven in the past that distortion of fact is ok as long as his point it made. He is self-serving and downright misleading in his "documentaries" which will eventually prove him to be the liar that he is. GWB and Iraq war aside, take what Michael Moore has to say with a grain of salt. Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #58 June 28, 2004 QuoteYou forgot "FAT" A "Fat ASSHOLE" And what exactly does his size have to do with him, his opinion or politics? Also, how can anyone judge a film they haven't even seen. I saw the movie tonight. I can say that it was a very powerful movie...he does omit stuff out of convienence (ie, never once does he mention that Clark authorized the flights)....but he does go into quite a lot that makes you think. Some of it isn't even his words but actuall segments from a variety of talking heads. Some of the most powerful stuff was the personal side of the war...from some of the brainless idiots in the military (killing people is a the most extreme rush!)to those that are seasoned veterans that have seen far too much war and no longer want it. Also, the journey one mother took as well...._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #59 June 28, 2004 So first you tell Trent to go see the movie and he will be surprised. Then Skycop says he saw it twice and you tell him to go read a few books and that he must have missed all the good information. Liberals, Go figure QuoteActually, I am a republican and I have always voted a straight republican ticket. This will be the first time I have ever voted for a democrat. I believe the current heads of state have HIJACKED the federal government and is using it to push their own agenda, of which GWB is not even in control! So yes, go see the movie, read a few books and do some research(By the way, the 2 books I have read in the last few months were both written by republicans)..........After all, I guess that investigating for yourself is the liberal thing to do. And yes, Trent go see the movie and lets rap about it-Mercedes and I sat right behind Stevie, but did not get his point of view!.........As for you, read the words below.....you watch a lot of TV uh? Thank you for being so intuitive as to be able to know where I get my information from. Based on your post which excitedly encourages others to go see a movie that obviously has you titillated without a single reference to one "fact" that you have researched independent of the movie, that it is you who hasn't bothered to do any research. Why don't you take your own advice and then write a report for us about the factuality or lack of contained in the movie that we can compare against our own opinions and research (if anyone is bored enough or cares enough), instead of making a feeble, immature attempt at casting aspersions at someone who obviously doesn't share you enthusiasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #60 June 28, 2004 Trent, you can't possibly be saying that we should mindlessly accept what this current administration is doing in the interest of public safety. That those of us who oppose what is happening in Iraq, and who feel lied to by this administration, should remain silent and not express our displeasure. The mindset of the current "conservative" movement is very disturbing to me. They are willing to accept SERIOUS encroachments on our liberty, label any opposition as "unpatriotic" and just generally ignore the most massive expansion of government, both in terms of fiscal policy as well as the expansion of the police state, in modern memory. This is about as ANTI-Republican, if the Republican party is truly the party of small government, as I can conceive. I'm a big believer in individual liberty. I'm a believer that government is a necessary evil which should only exist for the purpose of ensuring that nobody encroaches on anybody else's right to live as they choose. This is why I voted Republican in the past. But after seeing what the current Republican establishment currently stands for.... pushing their moral agenda on the populace, spending MY money like drunken sailors, starting wars overseas for dubious political and personal reasons... I joined the Libertarian party. Like Jeff, I have heretofore voted straight Republican... hell I voted for GWB. And like Jeff I'll be voting for John Kerry for one reason and one reason only... to get GWB and his cronies out of office. For me to vote Democrat, things have to be really, REALLY bad. I believe our current adminstration is that bad. Actually, it's even worse, I believe our current administration is dangerous. If people just step back for a second and analyze what has gone on in the past few years, how one can call themselves a conservative and still support this administration is absolutely astounding. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #61 June 28, 2004 QuoteTrent, you can't possibly be saying that we should mindlessly accept what this current administration is doing in the interest of public safety. That those of us who oppose what is happening in Iraq, and who feel lied to by this administration, should remain silent and not express our displeasure. Ted, please don't succumb to DZ.com debate policy by reading something I never wrote. My post was ONLY A QUESTION that people aren't really answering. Sure we have a right to say what we want whenever we want, but sometimes it is better to save comments for more appropriate times. Some people I've talked to seem to think that the movie very well might embolden some anti-American militants... it's not hard to believe... look how fired up all these people who have seen it are! Like Moore himself, most people who see it are going to be biased one way or another. Those who generally agree with him will not bother to question the movie as closely as someone who dislike him. So, just as it is your right to question the government, it's mine to question this "director". QuoteLike Jeff, I have heretofore voted straight Republican... hell I voted for GWB. And like Jeff I'll be voting for John Kerry for one reason and one reason only... to get GWB and his cronies out of office. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it. We may have another president who decides to talk tough but let situations go until someone we like to blame comes into office. QuoteThey are willing to accept SERIOUS encroachments on our liberty, label any opposition as "unpatriotic" and just generally ignore the most massive expansion of government, both in terms of fiscal policy as well as the expansion of the police state, in modern memory. My memory is only 27 years long. I can't compare the liberties I've lost under Bush to those my grandparents and other Americans lost during WW2. Will someone please forward me a list of liberties that I am currently being deprived of?Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #62 June 28, 2004 QuoteLike Jeff, I have heretofore voted straight Republican... hell I voted for GWB. And like Jeff I'll be voting for John Kerry for one reason and one reason only... to get GWB and his cronies out of office. wow we totally agree, i cant say i've voted straight republican, as i have voted libertarian several times in the past, but i too am completely over GWB and his attempts to impose his own religious beliefs on the US and the rest of the world. I had some faith in his staff and advisors but the obvious sidelining of the most experience military member of his cabinet is appalling.. i'm certainly no fan of Kerry's either, and am honestly offended these are the only two choices we are offered as a country...it really should say something is wrong with the electoral process when your real choices are as narrow as ours have been for the last 16 years or so....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #63 June 28, 2004 QuoteWill someone please forward me a list of liberties that I am currently being deprived of? Sure. Try here for starters. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #64 June 28, 2004 Oh, and here's another one in case one wasn't good enough... - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #65 June 28, 2004 I'll read through it, but you want to sum it up? Or should I just take for granted that this document removes my most sacred personal freedoms? I'll let you know what I think when I get through.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #66 June 28, 2004 And then of course, good old John Ashcroft said the Patriot Act would ONLY be used for the purposes of combating terrorism. Right? Wrong. Lies. This administration is all lies. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #67 June 28, 2004 Do you enjoy the federal government knowing what books you read at the library? Or snooping into your bank accounts? This is OK with you?... as a "conservative" of course. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #68 June 28, 2004 Oh, I forgot about those pesky secret subpoenas too. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #69 June 28, 2004 This is not just a conflict (Korea) or police action (Nam). Throwing a lot more money at funding 'first responders' should not be a high priority. It is a real war against freedom. Bush realizes the true nature of this fight. Our military will be under great demands for quite a while. Freedom will suffer with Kerry as the leader of the free world. I fear Kerry would try to wish it away.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #70 June 28, 2004 QuoteOh, I forgot about those pesky secret subpoenas too. If they are "secret subpeonas" how is it you know about them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #71 June 28, 2004 And you DON'T have a problem with US CITIZEN'S being held indefinitely, uncharged, incommunicado, without access to an attorney merely because our administration decides to label them "enemy combatants"? This is all fine & dandy with you? - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #72 June 28, 2004 QuoteIf they are "secret subpeonas" how is it you know about them? About individual ones, I don't... because this Act makes it a crime to reveal that one was issued. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #73 June 28, 2004 QuoteAnd you DON'T have a problem with US CITIZEN'S being held indefinitely, uncharged, incommunicado, without access to an attorney merely because our administration decides to label them "enemy combatants"? This is all fine & dandy with you? What innocent US citizens are you referring to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #74 June 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteIf they are "secret subpeonas" how is it you know about them? About individual ones, I don't... because this Act makes it a crime to reveal that one was issued. Then how do you know one was issued? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #75 June 28, 2004 QuoteDo you enjoy the federal government knowing what books you read at the library? Or snooping into your bank accounts? This is OK with you?... as a "conservative" of course. They could already do that sort of thing (banking) if a judge was convinced of your involvement in organized crime. It was expanded to include convincing a judge you are a terrorist. No library records have even been used yet. It takes a judge's order. You imply they can do it on their own volition.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
