See if this doesn't gross you out!

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Plastination -- a process of preservation in which anatomical structures are impregnated with polymers so that they remain life-like, is the subject of a science/art exhibit called "Body Worlds: The Anatomical Exhibition of Real Human Bodies" by Dr. Gunther von Hagens.

I read about this exhibit in my local paper today, and the first thing I thought of was a movie I rented for the first time just about a month ago, called Anatomy, in which a promising medical student discovers that some of her peers and instructors are part of a secret, anti-Hippocratic society that experiments on living subjects (victims), and also "plastinates" them to be put on display later.

The drug that is used in the thriller movie is fictitious -- but I had NO IDEA that the process is actually possible, although through different means. In the film, there are scenes in a "gallery" of preserved human models -- and when I watched it, I thought that they were most likely just realistic-looking plastic models. Now I wonder, since this doctor created the process in 1978! Maybe the movie used real, plastinated humans! Ironically, or perhaps intentionally, the movie "Anatomy" is set in Heidelberg, Germany -- where von Hagens made his discoveries!!

You will see from this link that the exhibit contains real human beings (dead ones) preserved in lifelike poses, but without their skin, or other parts all cut-open like! According to the news article, they even have preserved (and exhibited) the whole body of a woman and her fetus at the eighth month of pregnancy!! (The display is in a separate area so that people can't unwittingly see it. Gotta admit, that could be pretty damned disturbing!)

Here's a link to a site about this exhibit:

Body Worlds human exhibit

I dunno. I'm kinda freaked by the stuff I saw there, especially after having seen "Anatomy."

Blue skies,
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[aprilcat 0]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeK!!

Sorry, it doesn't gross me out more than any other type of mummification. Whether it be for religious or scientific purposes, there's still a human body hanging around that you know someone is going to poke a stick at.

The film you mention was on TBS in the wee hours the other morning. I didn't watch it, but glanced at it every now and then and just chose not to watch it (I was sick enough). Next time I will in order to have an informed opinion of what you're talking about here. Since the film is post-von Hagen studies, I'll just for now accept it as 'art imitating life' and dramatising it.

But thats what happens when a body is donated to science (which I think is a GOOD thing--not for me, but for the sake of science). I don't think the subject can stipulate where the line gets drawn.~~April

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[Remster 30]

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But thats what happens when a body is donated to science (which I think is a GOOD thing--not for me, but for the sake of science). I don't think the subject can stipulate where the line gets drawn

Thats incorect April for this anyway. The bodies donated for this art project were in fact donated by the people themselves for the specific purpose of this project.

Remster

[turtlespeed 226]

hmmm - I think I actually like this - or can appreciate it - it Definately makes me feel more intruiged than any other art I have seen.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Skyrad 0]

I've actualy been to see the bodyworlds exhibition. It was very interesting, and quite useful for anatomy revision. It wasn't gross at all.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[aprilcat 0]

Thats incorect April for this anyway. The bodies donated for this art project were in fact donated by the people themselves for the specific purpose of this project.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then that makes it more interesting and beneficial. ~~April

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[Red_Skydiver 0]

The exhibition was over in London a long time ago and I have to say it was excellent. I would recommend a viewing if you get the chance. I found it very educational. The only disturbing thing I saw were the embryos at different stages of development, it made me realise that abortions are wrong.

[rickjump1 0]

I have a daughter studying to be a nurse. She would find this interesting.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[ying 0]

And i think it's a disgusting lack of respect for human corpse. Von Hagens is planning to open a plastination factory in my country. He says he obtains the bodies from volunteers who sign a contract with him but human right defendants have recently accused him of buying corpses of the executed Chinese prisoners (some of people turned into his exponates died from a shot in the head) and using the bodies of the Siberian homeless.

[Skyrad 0]

Siberian Waste not want not!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[flyclearjohn 0]

Can you get lemon-lime ones?

[britboynz 0]

Hmm, so Damian Hirst (of pickled sheep fame - http://www.artchive.com/artchive/h/hirst/hirst_flock.jpg) has moved onto humans now?! Yay.

[dropoutdave 0]

About a month ago Channel 4 here in the UK had a week long series called Anatomy for Beginners where Dr. Gunther von Hagens performed a different dissection every night. He covered the digestive, movement, circulation and reproductive systems. It was absolutely fascinating seeing how the body works from that perspective. Much has been learnt about the human body from his work, no question about it.

If you manage to get hold of a copy of this series, guys I'd just warn you about the dissection of the bolllocks, it's enough to make any guy curl up in a ball and feel sick!! No problems watching the female dissection though.

I read that he now has over 6000 living people that have donated their bodies to him when they die.

I don't understand people who are against it, so much has been learnt from his work, i'm sure they wouldn't be so against it if something learnt from his dissections helped to save one of their loved ones lives.

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[dropoutdave 0]

DOCUMENTARY: Anatomy for Beginners
Channel: Channel 4

Lesson 1: Movement (Part 1 of 4).

Anatomist Gunther von Hagens and pathologist John Lee begin a series of anatomy classes, including a human dissection filmed before an invited audience. This first programme investigates movement. Dr von Hagens dissects a man he knew, removing the skin in a single piece to enable a demonstration of muscle movement. Then the skull is opened and the spinal cord and sciatic nerve removed in a single piece.

Lesson 2: Circulation (Part 2 of 4).

Anatomist Dr Gunther von Hagens and pathologist Professor John Lee continue their exploration of the human body. Respiration and circulation are the subjects of this programme's dissection as von Hagens demonstrates the inflation and deflation of the lungs, as well as the flow of blood through the vascular system.
(Subtitles)

Lesson 3: Digestion.

Dr Gunther von Hagens and pathologist Professor John Lee reveal the science and beauty of the human body in a series of filmed dissections. Focusing on the digestive system, von Hagens removes the entire abdominal block from a woman's body and demonstrates the passage of a mouthful of food through the seven metres of the digestive tract.
(Subtitles)

Lesson 4: Reproduction

The final programme in which Dr Gunther von Hagens and Professor John Lee reveal the science of the human body by means of dissection. On this occasion male and female bodies are examined as the anatomists expose the wonders of the human reproductive system in graphic detail.

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[Skyrad 0]

When I went to see the exhibition in Brick Lane London, there was a large group of people lining up to find out how to donate their bodies. I don't belive that stuff about Chineese prisoners and the homeless, anyway, even if that were true then the only difference would be that instead of glancing at them and walking by when they're alive people might actualy stop and take an interest in them; once they're dead.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[dropoutdave 0]

Absolutely, even if he did use the bodies of prisoners, which I very much doubt he did from the things I have read and seen, I think it shows more respect for the body to use it to help educate others and help people in the future than dumping it in a mass grave and leaving it to rot.

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[dropoutdave 0]

Care to explain why you think that or are you just disminssing it at face value without researching it?

Why would he be getting bodies of executed prisoners and homeless people when he has over 6000 people offering him their bodies and over 300 bodies that he is actually working on at the moment?

My girlfriend is a forensic scientist and has also worked in a mortuary for experience, you'd surprised at what actually happens to bodies to discover the reason of death. Are you against post mortems too or is it just the fact he is bringing this into the public eye that you think it is disrespectful?

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[christelsabine 1]

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Absolutely, even if he did use the bodies of prisoners, which I very much doubt he did from the things I have read and seen, I think it shows more respect for the body to use it to help educate others and help people in the future than dumping it in a mass grave and leaving it to rot.

2 yrs ago, that exhibition was here in Cologne. I've been there at midnight opening hour and was extremely fascinated, there was nothing repellent, I did not see any disrespect for human corpses. It was highly interesting and I would go there at any time again.

Where would be the big difference if that Prof. is using bodies of Chinese prisoners or donated ones?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[rickjump1 0]

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Where would be the big difference if that Prof. is using bodies of Chinese prisoners or donated ones?

One thing: if they were political prisoners, they could be put on display on Mothers Day instead of May Day. What a way to squash any political dissent.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[christelsabine 1]

[ying 0]

The reason for which i find the whole idea of Body Worls exhibition absolutely repulsive is my instilled respect for the dead. Their bodies once hosted concsious beings. They were the physical manifestation of people who are no more. They deserve to rest in peace. And what von Hagens does? He strips death of its solemnity and turns it into a common entertainment. He parasitizes the human need to seek for a thrill. He allows people to feast their eyes on mutilated bodies. And people come and WATCH. You should have all went to Thailand and witness the tsunami effects there. It’d be a good lesson too – you could see what water and heat do to dead bodies.

Von Hagens says he does it to popularise the knowledge about the way our bodies are built. And i ask, what is the purpose of that? What are you going to do with the very knowledge you’ve possessed? Go and boast in front of your friends that you know how an unborn baby in a cut open womb looks like?

Human anatomy is already known. There are detailed descriptions, drawings and photos available. There is no need to skin and cut all those bodies. And if you’re interested in autopsy then why won’t you study medicine and become pathologists? By the way, when the Body Worlds exhibition was opened for the first time, back in 1997, the Anantomy Association announced that they do not want in any way to be associated with it.

Von Hagens says thousands of people want to donate their bodies and become plastinated exponates after they die. What are you – 5 year olds? The fact he says so means only that he says so. And he wasn’t popular from the day he was born. He had to obtain the bodies somehow for his first exibition. Some of his exponates were shot in the head. This is the way the death sentence is conducted in Chinese prisons. If these bodies belong to the executed prisoners it is possible that those people hadn’t agree to be plastinated after death. In my opinion the person’s wish concerning the way this person is to be buried must be respected.

And as far as donating bodies is concerned; would you recommend it to your relatives? I wonder how would you feel looking at a plastinated exhibit if you knew it was once your mother. Or your tragically killed child.

Skyrad; you say the Siberian homeless are TRASH? Nice statement for a guy who quotes the Bible. Have you ever heard of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin? They had a similar approach :/

[mr2mk1g 10]

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would you recommend it to your relatives?

Yes.

What repulses one is a marvel to another. If you don't like it, don't go.

[AndyMan 7]

It's a fantastic show, craichead and I took my parents a few weeks ago. It's currently showing at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago.

We saw many kids there, who all seemed to enjoy it.

We were not grossed out. We found the subject very approachable.

We were fascinated and intrigued. We both leared a lot.

One would be foolish to avoid it on grounds of "gross". It's amazing.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[craichead 0]

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He parasitizes the human need to seek for a thrill. He allows people to feast their eyes on mutilated bodies. And people come and WATCH. You should have all went to Thailand and witness the tsunami effects there. It’d be a good lesson too – you could see what water and heat do to dead bodies.

So, you seem to be disturbed by the fact that people want to go see dead bodies that are set up in a very educational and scientific manner, and then you're encouraging people to go to Asia to see the dead bodies from the tsunami because it would be a good lesson? I don't get it.

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Von Hagens says he does it to popularise the knowledge about the way our bodies are built. And i ask, what is the purpose of that? What are you going to do with the very knowledge you’ve possessed?

...

Human anatomy is already known. There are detailed descriptions, drawings and photos available. There is no need to skin and cut all those bodies. And if you’re interested in autopsy then why won’t you study medicine and become pathologists?

I, for one, find he human body extremely fascinating, and I'm not looking for a "thrill." If I wanted a good thrill, I'd go for a skydive. People go to this exhibition to satisfy their hunger for knowledge. Even though I'm not going into the medical field, I have curiosity about the way my body works. People are extraordinarily uneducated about the human body and what a truly beautiful piece of work it is.

Just because I want to know the "anatomy" of my parachute and rig, and how they all work together, it doesn't mean I want to be rigger by trade. Don't you have curiosity about things outside of your occupation? I'm very sorry if you don't, because that has to be an extremely boring existence.

I've had a series of problems with my shoulder and had surgery about 5 months ago. I've looked at countless fake models, charts, drawings, and anatomy books in my doctor's office and in physical therapy, but I could still never really wrap my head around what was going on in my shoulder. However, when I saw the muscles, nerves, tendons and ligaments all in place on a real body, it gave me a MUCH better understanding about the mechanics of my own body.

There are also several segments of the exhibit that show smokers' lungs, enlarged hearts, ruptured arteries, hernias, joint replacements, the effects of extreme obesity, arthritic bones, and cancers of practically every organ. Just that alone will educate people on what happens when you don't take very good care of yourself.

Maybe with this new found knowledge that people get from the exhibition is RESPECT for the human body, respect for the people who work to fix broken bodies, and ultimately more respect for other humans as a whole. If you've experienced this Body Worlds show (I'm guessing that you haven't since you're so against it), you'd see that underneath the clothes, skin color, body shape, nationality, religion, culture, whatever characteristic that differentiates us from each other, we're all pretty much the same.

_Pm

__
"Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC)

[billvon 3,076]

> The reason for which i find the whole idea of Body Worls exhibition
>absolutely repulsive is my instilled respect for the dead. Their bodies
> once hosted concsious beings. They were the physical manifestation of
>people who are no more. They deserve to rest in peace.

You might want your body to rest in peace. When I'm gone, if someone can use my body for spare parts, or even teaching people about how their bodies work - have at it. I will have left the building by then anyway.

The only issue I see here is making sure that the bodies he exhibits belonged to people who were OK with this sort of use. If he makes sure of that there are no real moral issues. If you don't like it - don't watch it.

>Von Hagens says he does it to popularise the knowledge about the way
> our bodies are built. And i ask, what is the purpose of that? What are
>you going to do with the very knowledge you’ve possessed? Go and boast
> in front of your friends that you know how an unborn baby in a cut open
> womb looks like?

Right. And all NTSB investigators do investigations just so they can boast about all the dead bodies they've seen.

>Human anatomy is already known. There are detailed descriptions,
> drawings and photos available.

Dissection is a valuable tool for anyone wishing to learn more about how the body works and is put together. I've dissected cadavers; it was fascinating. (A little gross, but fascinating nonetheless.) I think if more people knew what the insides of a fat smoker looked like they'd be a lot less likely to smoke or overeat.

>And if you’re interested in autopsy then why won’t you study medicine
>and become pathologists?

Personally? Because I want to design things, not try to figure out why people die. But I'm also curious about how we work.