Kennedy 0 #101 July 14, 2004 Quote Quote Quote questioned = detained. Incorrect. Not to you perhaps. If I can't go about my business, I'm being detained. Note that this is not the same as arrested. And anyone claiming that they don't mind the inconvenience of being held up for 15 minutes without cause is someone who never has to worry about it happening. No. You are incorrect. Legally, according to the Supreme Court, just because a cop is talking to you and hasn't specifically told you that you're free to go, it doesn't mean you're legally detained. At any point you can tell the cop to go to hell and go on about your business. If he stops you from leaving at that point, he needs a good reason. Up until then, he can ask you anything he wants. Just because you don't know your rights, don't blame it on law enforcement officers.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #102 July 14, 2004 Sseems to me that this indicates that you can't just walk away. Quote Posted: June 18, 2004 at 12:16 p.m. WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court ruled Monday that people do not have a constitutional right to refuse to tell police their names. ... The ruling was a follow up to a 1968 decision that said police may briefly detain (emphasis added) someone on reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing, without the stronger standard of probable cause, to get more information. Justices said that during such brief detentions, known as Terry stops after the 1968 ruling, people must answer questions about their identities. ... And just what defines "reasonable suspicion?" Wrong person in wrong neighborhood? "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #103 July 14, 2004 Quote And just what defines "reasonable suspicion?" Wrong person in wrong neighborhood? According to another recent ruling by the supremes, refusing to answer their questions. So, I would say that by default, when you are questioned by police you are in fact being detained since your only other option is to refuse to answer and then be taken into custody. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #104 July 14, 2004 Quote questioned = detained No, detained = detained... Questioned = "hey buddy can I see some ID and what are you doing here at this time of night?" Quote Assuming 5 or 10-15 years ago is the past is the problem here, Ron. That's not long enough ago - you have the same cops and ATF agents out there Are you saying that old dogs can't be taught new tricks? Or maybe leaders can't control and fire bad cops?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #105 July 14, 2004 >Or maybe leaders can't control and fire bad cops? If they could, the "Good old boy" term never would have never been invented. I think you can see "good old boy" things in all organizations, police, corporations, military, political groups and skydiving circles.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #106 July 14, 2004 The statndard for a Terry stop is RAS: Reasonable Atriculable Suspicion. It has to be something more than "I didn't like the looks of him" or "He didn't belong there." And Kev, as much as I agree the Supremes screwed up with the ruling about ID stops, that instance was about a person suspected of a crime, not just someone off the street. I haven't read the entire ruling, and I doubt they bothered to make this much sense, but they very easily could have said for this sort of ID stop, an investigator must have X level of certainty (none, RAS, PC). In that case (The ID checks) I don't believe the officer had RAS to believe the man had committed a crime. My understanding is that the officer was called to the scene for an argument between a man and a woman. However, the court ruled that a person must show ID to an investigating officer. A very scary line they are toeing...witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #107 July 14, 2004 Quote >Or maybe leaders can't control and fire bad cops? If they could, the "Good old boy" term never would have never been invented. I think you can see "good old boy" things in all organizations, police, corporations, military, political groups and skydiving circles. So you are saying that nothing can change? Funny I don't see white only drinking fountains, and I can't remember the last burning cross I saw in a guys yard....Oh wait, I can...NEVER. things do change."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #108 July 14, 2004 Quote No. You are incorrect. Legally, according to the Supreme Court, just because a cop is talking to you and hasn't specifically told you that you're free to go, it doesn't mean you're legally detained. At any point you can tell the cop to go to hell and go on about your business. If he stops you from leaving at that point, he needs a good reason. Up until then, he can ask you anything he wants. Just because you don't know your rights, don't blame it on law enforcement officers. Right .... we're all prepared to walk away from a guy with a gun telling us not to move. Or as the next poster points out, the Supremes made a loophole in this legal position big enough to drive a SWAT van through. Just because you have a constitutional right to walk away doesn't mean the cop is going to let you exercise it. It's not like they're supposed to beat the crap out of you with batons either, and yet sometimes it happens. Join me in the real world, ok? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #109 July 14, 2004 Wasn't it you with the bumper sticker example who was saying you need to stand up for your own damn self? I'm fully prepared to walk away from anyone I care to. If he stops me, he better have a very good reason. If you're not strong enough to exercise your rights, don't blame law enforcement for taking advantage of your weakness.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #110 July 14, 2004 Quote At any point you can tell the cop to go to hell and go on about your business. let me know how that turns out for you. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #111 July 14, 2004 Quote If you're not strong enough to exercise your rights, don't blame law enforcement for taking advantage of your weakness. so much for to serve and protect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #112 July 14, 2004 It's worked well for me so far.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #113 July 14, 2004 you told a cop to go to hell? Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #114 July 14, 2004 Serving and protecting the community by outsmarting people who may be up to no good. Sounds just fine by me.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #115 July 14, 2004 Quote Wasn't it you with the bumper sticker example who was saying you need to stand up for your own damn self? Not sure - doesn't ring a bell to me. I'm all for people taking care of themselves, but it's a loaded deck against an armed cop that doesn't really care about the civil rights of suspected perps or hoods. Why do you think we have the 2nd amendment? To make sure they at least think about those rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #116 July 15, 2004 Quote If a person in a suit is roaming the slums do you stop that person too? They are certainly out of place. Or a white person in the black part of town or an apparently staight couple in a gay neighborhood. Cops routinely question the suit in the ghetto or the white guy in the black part of town. As far as the straight couple in the gay neighborhood, not likely, since straight doesn't look out of place in the gay neighborhood. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #117 July 15, 2004 Quote Quote If a person in a suit is roaming the slums do you stop that person too? They are certainly out of place. Or a white person in the black part of town or an apparently staight couple in a gay neighborhood. Cops routinely question the suit in the ghetto or the white guy in the black part of town. As far as the straight couple in the gay neighborhood, not likely, since straight doesn't look out of place in the gay neighborhood. - Jim I have never heard of a "gay neighborhood". Is it just me or do they actually exist? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #118 July 15, 2004 Yes.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #119 July 15, 2004 Quote Quote Quote If a person in a suit is roaming the slums do you stop that person too? They are certainly out of place. Or a white person in the black part of town or an apparently staight couple in a gay neighborhood. Cops routinely question the suit in the ghetto or the white guy in the black part of town. As far as the straight couple in the gay neighborhood, not likely, since straight doesn't look out of place in the gay neighborhood. - Jim I have never heard of a "gay neighborhood". Is it just me or do they actually exist? You need to get out more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #120 July 15, 2004 Quote You need to get out more. Simply an unfortunate pun?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #121 July 15, 2004 Quote Quote Quote Quote If a person in a suit is roaming the slums do you stop that person too? They are certainly out of place. Or a white person in the black part of town or an apparently staight couple in a gay neighborhood. Cops routinely question the suit in the ghetto or the white guy in the black part of town. As far as the straight couple in the gay neighborhood, not likely, since straight doesn't look out of place in the gay neighborhood. - Jim I have never heard of a "gay neighborhood". Is it just me or do they actually exist? You need to get out more. I can assure you I get out plenty. Probably not to the same places you obviously do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #122 July 15, 2004 Come to Columbus, there are 3 districts that are 85%+ gay population. Granted the real estate prices are skyhigh in those districts due to how nice and fancy they keep them Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #123 July 15, 2004 Quote I have never heard of a "gay neighborhood". Is it just me or do they actually exist? In case you miss the giant rainbow flag at the entrance to the Castro, the gay porn on window display for the video store might be a tipoff. Or just show up on certain weekends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #124 July 15, 2004 Quote Quote I have never heard of a "gay neighborhood". Is it just me or do they actually exist? In case you miss the giant rainbow flag at the entrance to the Castro, the gay porn on window display for the video store might be a tipoff. Or just show up on certain weekends. I really have no idea what you are talking about. What is the Castro? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #125 July 15, 2004 Quote Quote Quote I have never heard of a "gay neighborhood". Is it just me or do they actually exist? In case you miss the giant rainbow flag at the entrance to the Castro, the gay porn on window display for the video store might be a tipoff. Or just show up on certain weekends. I really have no idea what you are talking about. What is the Castro? Ignorance is 100% curable: www.castroonline.com/... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
