Ron 10
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Ron 10
QuoteWell at least you are consistent in how you would apply it. The couple could be Christian fundamentalists scouting the neightborhood for deviant behaviour that should be punished by God and they will be his hand.
OK well in that case then stopping them and asking a few questions could save a life right? Either way I am for profiling. As long as it is not taken out of hand...Or is done illegally.
QuoteProfiling does have real world benefits but at the same time can quickly deteriorate in to harrassment and that is why it is a bad thing. In rural Texas "driving while black" is a real thing and is used many times just for the amusement of the officer involved.
The in that case it was taken out of hand. If a black kid is stopped and asked a few questions about why he is driving a 50,000 car in a rich neighborhood and he is not a recording artist who lives there...Hell, pull him over and ask for his ID. If he checks out let him go.
If a white preppy kid is cruzing the slums in the middle of the night...Hell, pull him over also. He might be looking for a drug deal.
Hell for that matter if a preppy kid is cruzing around in the rich neighborhood at 3 AM..Hell, pull him over as well and ask a few questions...He might be drunk.
In the case of a black man being harrassed just cause...Well thats a case of a cop getting out of hand...And that should be delt with on a case by case basis...Fire the guys that abuse their power...It would not be hard to track who pulled over who and why. Understand that if I pull over more black kids than white, but I work in a black neighborhood...well that is noramal.
For the record I have been stopped and question several times in my life...Once a good old boy was messing with me since I had a personalized license plate. That was THE reason he pulled me over...Well I answered his questions, called him officer or sir and he checked me out...I was clean and he let me move on my merry way...That was 15-20 min out of my life. Big deal. If I got pulled over once a week due to that license plate...I'd change the damn plate, not bitch about it.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
QuoteQuoteRon writes - 'it's not like the cops were arresting blacks, just detaining them.'
I think you need to review the 50s-70s, and just as likely your current events.
Actually I wrote:QuoteHowever I don't have a problem with a cop using someones apperance (Notice not RACE..color of skin is just one small part of apperance) to look into a situation more as long as its legal.
I would not support a guy getting arrested just cause he was black/white/hispanic..ect, But I don't have a problem with them being questioned.
If you are gonna quote me do it correctly.
questioned = detained.
Quote
And I don't care what happened 10-15 or even 5 years ago...I am more concerned with today, and tomorrow...I can't change the past...Can you?
And to say it again...I don't have a problem with law enforcment questioning someone based on apperance....Notice I said APPERANCE, not race.
Assuming 5 or 10-15 years ago is the past is the problem here, Ron. That's not long enough ago - you have the same cops and ATF agents out there.
I would say probably better qualified than someone who had not served but you can also get in to civilian contractors and the rest. Not serving does not make an opinion about the military automatically invalid.
The whole "kill or die" thing is not what I was talking about. That is only logical to most people unless you are a really hard core pacifist. My point was people from all walks of life end up with the idea that the authority is right because it is authority. And this is certainly something that the military tries to drum in to recruits. If you left the military with that thought process in place then you were indoctrinated. If you question authority occasionally then you were not.
I too lived up to my military promises and try to do as well in civilian life. That is why I showed up at reserve duty during the Gulf war and would have gone if called even though I disagreed with what we were doing. That is also why I got out when it was over so that I would not have to participate in anything I didn't agree with later.
I think a lot of people would benefit from some sort of government service. Doesn't have to be the military. But doing something because it is good for other people and helps other people will always help you.
"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes
The whole "kill or die" thing is not what I was talking about. That is only logical to most people unless you are a really hard core pacifist. My point was people from all walks of life end up with the idea that the authority is right because it is authority. And this is certainly something that the military tries to drum in to recruits. If you left the military with that thought process in place then you were indoctrinated. If you question authority occasionally then you were not.
I too lived up to my military promises and try to do as well in civilian life. That is why I showed up at reserve duty during the Gulf war and would have gone if called even though I disagreed with what we were doing. That is also why I got out when it was over so that I would not have to participate in anything I didn't agree with later.
I think a lot of people would benefit from some sort of government service. Doesn't have to be the military. But doing something because it is good for other people and helps other people will always help you.
"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Kennedy 0
QuoteIf a person with tattoos is wandering an expensive neighborhood you indicate that it is OK for the cops to stop and talk to them for no other reason than they look out of place.
Um, I know plenty of rich brats who go out and get tattoos. Now, if we're talking about a full on scary punk rocker look at 3am, yeah, a cop might want to ask if everything's ok.
QuoteWe all know this happens. If a person in a suit is roaming the slums do you stop that person too? They are certainly out of place.
Hell yes. (A) People in suits commit crimes too and (B) he's a likely target for a crime - that thing cops are supposed to prevent.
In parts of PG County, MD if you see a white guy and a black guy in a car together, it's a drug deal happening. A cop needs a better reason to intervene, but that doesn't change that that's what's going on.
QuoteOr a white person in the black part of town or an apparently straight couple in a gay neighborhood.
I wouldn't say a white person in any part of town is out of place just because of the color of his skin. Like someone said, skin color is just one part of appearance. Oh, and since when are gay neighborhoods all that territorial? Would a "seemingly" straight couple look out of place there?
QuoteI am not saying that profiling doesn't work only that because "I don't look like I belong here" is not probable cause.
You don't need Probable Cause for a Terry stop, and you sure don't need it to stop and ask questions.
In my book, the more people cops talk to on the street, the better things are in the neighborhood. Then again, I don't think every badge-wearer is the enemy of things decent and wholesome.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
QuoteIf I got pulled over once a week due to that license plate...I'd change the damn plate, not bitch about it.
And this is where we differ. Why should I have to change things that are not harming someone else?
When someone ran a key through my GWB is a punk-ass chump bumper sticker I didn't take it off I add "Regime change begins at home."
Freedom of speech works both ways.
"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Kennedy 0
Quotequestioned = detained.
Incorrect.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Quote...
QuoteWe all know this happens. If a person in a suit is roaming the slums do you stop that person too? They are certainly out of place.
Hell yes. (A) People in suits commit crimes too and (B) he's a likely target for a crime - that thing cops are supposed to prevent.
Good for you too. Like Ron you are at least consistent in your application.
Quote
In parts of PG County, MD if you see a white guy and a black guy in a car together, it's a drug deal happening. A cop needs a better reason to intervene, but that doesn't change that that's what's going on.
May be going on which is why a cop needs a better reason.
Quote
QuoteOr a white person in the black part of town or an apparently straight couple in a gay neighborhood.
...Oh, and since when are gay neighborhoods all that territorial? Would a "seemingly" straight couple look out of place there?
The gay scenario was just an effort to point out when do you stop. Plus see the possible scenario I gave Ron above.
Quote
In my book, the more people cops talk to on the street, the better things are in the neighborhood. Then again, I don't think every badge-wearer is the enemy of things decent and wholesome.
I agree but they have to get out of the damned cars and walk the streets and get to know people not just stop and hassle the folks they think are trouble makers.
"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes
QuoteQuotequestioned = detained.
Incorrect.
Not to you perhaps.
If I can't go about my business, I'm being detained. Note that this is not the same as arrested.
And anyone claiming that they don't mind the inconvenience of being held up for 15 minutes without cause is someone who never has to worry about it happening.
Ok but do you think you are better qualified to make that assumption than a guy that had never served?
I think you are due to you having experiences closer to the event. A guy that has trained to fight, but never did is better qualified than a guy whos only uniform worn was a Boy Scout uniform and the one at MacDonalds.
But much more qualified to make choices based on training that you would have recieved in the military or in the police force right?
I think its a little of both. Maybe something along the lines of "There are some really shitty things you have to do in life, some you will not like, some you will downright hate. Some you will understand and some you will not. But when it comes down to kill or die...I'll kill and let the enemy die. But I will do my duty." Now that applied to when I was in...I agreed to do what my government asked me to do as long as it was legal. I swore to it and signed my name on the line..... Now I am out and I don't have to do those things.
I think almost everyone would benefit from service...What do you think?
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