crozby 0 #76 July 15, 2004 Using that logic, all the terrorists in the world also know, from examining the NI conflict, that the British government negotiate wth terrorists and are by association some kind of soft touch. Seems strange that no Brits have been kidnapped yet doesn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #77 July 15, 2004 QuoteIn case you haven't been concerned with that part of the globe, the Philippines have been dealing with islamic terrorism for a long time. It is still a very big problem there. No, I wasn't aware of that. That makes their action more of a gamble than I thought. I hope it pays off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #78 July 16, 2004 The Philippines have been a good ally. They even sent medical/civic action teams to Vietnam, a real American mistake. If they are going to withdraw anyway, let them go. They have enough to deal with back home.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #79 July 16, 2004 QuoteThe Philippines have been a good ally. Did they just kick us out? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #80 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuote This is elementary stuff, people. It's the same technique you use with your child. - It is not elementary at all and can in no way be compared to a child's tantrum. The child is not out to deliberately harm or extort you. Each and every terrorist attrocity, threat and action has to be evaluated on it's own merits. It is simplistic to reason that by the Phillipines having pulled out, they gave in to the terrorists. In this instance their presence was very limited and their withdrawal is likely to have little or no effect on the situation. Terrorists, by definition, terrorise. They do this for a variety of reasons depending on their aims: intimidation, break down of morale, publicity for their cause and so on. The more gruesome their efforts the more of the above they accomplish. Having lived through a very long period of terrorism and having actively fought against terrorists, I have learnt that no country has ever won a war against terrorists. At the end of the day what is needed is communication & negotiation. There is of course also the old adage of One man's terrorist.... When you point out that "terrorists terrorize," you are implicitly stating awareness that the don't play by anyone's rules but their own. So who is to say that once the Philippines get their 51 people back to the islands that the terrorists won't LAUGH at them for being so FUCKING NAIVE, and lop the head off the dude they have hostage ANYWAY?!... The Philippine government is counting on the honesty, integrity and honor of TERRORISTS! This reminds me of a case I read about recently: in Mexico, economic kidnappings have been raging lately. One family paid $600,000 to kidnappers, and found their son executed anyway. Who the fuck would pay a kidnapper now, knowing that a precedent has been set where they kill the dude after they get their demands met?! Blue skies, --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #81 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteYou recon? How do you suppose they are going to terrorise the Philippines once they have all left Iraq and for what reason? It's not unlikely that the muslim extremists in the provincial islands of the philippines will be willing to try this tactic now that they've seen it work. All they have to do is start by asking for small, trivial stuff, then work their way up. In case you haven't been concerned with that part of the globe, the Philippines have been dealing with islamic terrorism for a long time. It is still a very big problem there. Exactly. All this time, there have been islamic kidnappings of people in the Philippines -- terrorism, you might call it. But in the Philippines, they send out specops troops and they slaughter the shit out of the militants they find! Why suddenly be pussies halfway across the world? Have you read on CNN the articles about how roundly condemned Manila has been around the world for this capitulation? Liberals want to say that everything should be done according to coalition-building and international consensus. Well, the fuckin' international consensus has been "Philippines, don't do this!" and they still did it. What do the liberals have to say now that international consensus says the opposite of their instinctive reaction to pussy-out and run away? By the way, all the Philippines had over in Iraq were humanitarian forces. Why on earth is it a big goal for the terrorists to get non-fighting-forces to pull out?? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #82 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn case you haven't been concerned with that part of the globe, the Philippines have been dealing with islamic terrorism for a long time. It is still a very big problem there. No, I wasn't aware of that. That makes their action more of a gamble than I thought. I hope it pays off. You weren't aware of the militant islamic terrorism and kidnappings that have been going on in the Philippines for YEARS, and yet you were here tellingus that their cowardly actions pulling out of Iraq on the demands of terrorists are justified?? Where the hell have you been? Have you been denied a newspaper for the last ten years?! --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 80 #83 July 16, 2004 QuoteWhen you point out that "terrorists terrorize," you are implicitly stating awareness that the don't play by anyone's rules but their own. Absolutely. I also stated that I lived through a long period of terrorism, saw how they operated, saw the effects of their attrocities and fought against them. No surprises there. Quote for aSo who is to say that once the Philippines get their 51 people back to the islands that the terrorists won't LAUGH at them for being so FUCKING NAIVE, and lop the head off the dude they have hostage ANYWAY?!... The Philippine government is counting on the honesty, integrity and honor of TERRORISTS! - As I suggested earlier, each terrorist action needs to be treated on it's own merits. In this instance I believe that is what happened. No government is so naive as to trust terrorists. This has nothing at all to do with the honour or integrity of terrorists. This a government doing what they believe is the prudent thing to do. Not unlike the US/UK coalition believing that at the time it was prudent to invade Iraq. With hindsight, it would be easy for me to suggest that the coalition was naive, but I like to think I am more mature and intelligent than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #84 July 16, 2004 QuoteAs I suggested earlier, each terrorist action needs to be treated on it's own merits. In this instance I believe that is what happened. No government is so naive as to trust terrorists. This has nothing at all to do with the honour or integrity of terrorists. This a government doing what they believe is the prudent thing to do. The stated reason, I thought, for doing the early pullout, is to appease the terrorists in their demands and save the single life of this one hostage. What I'm saying is that wouldn't it be funny if after the Philippines pussy-out and cave to terrorists, the terrorists decide to make the Philippines look even worse by beheading the hostage after the last Philippino goes home!! -- because they're fucking terrorists!! (I say that facetiously. I would not find it funny, but it sure as FUCK would be IRONIC.) --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 80 #85 July 16, 2004 QuoteThe stated reason, I thought, for doing the early pullout, is to appease the terrorists in their demands and save the single life of this one hostage. The stated reason is just that. Remember the stated reason for invading Iraq in the first place? Talk about irony! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #86 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe Philippines have been a good ally. Did they just kick us out? Yes, they asked us to leave. Even after their independence, they felt we had too much influence on their daily lives.We still have a presence helping their military. Okinawa has discussed us leaving.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #87 July 16, 2004 QuoteYou weren't aware of the militant islamic terrorism and kidnappings that have been going on in the Philippines for YEARS, and yet you were here tellingus that their cowardly actions pulling out of Iraq on the demands of terrorists are justified?? Where the hell have you been? Have you been denied a newspaper for the last ten years?! Jeffrey try to argue the point rather than making personal attacks. I know about as much about the Philippines as you seem to know about Northern Ireland based on your comments here. Go look at some British newspaper archives and search for articles about the Philippines - it doesnt make the news much here, in the same way European news probably doesn't make the headlines in your part of the world as muchas it does in the UK. Maybe for you this forum is somewhere you go to vent steam and verbally abuse people. Thats fine. But try to understand that for other people, me included, its a place to trade opinions and learn stuff. I really don't understand why you find it so offensive that I admittedly don't know all the facts here and am able to acknowlege it and modify my opinions accordingly. If the purpose of this forum was to simply regurgitate facts from other sources it would obviously be totally fucking pointless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #88 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe Philippines have been a good ally. Did they just kick us out? By that test and the principle of reciprocity, we should have British, Australian, Canadian and Japanese troops based in the US. How would you like a Japanese military base in your town?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
