Why should people be moral?

[livendive 8]

I'm taking an ethics class and we came across this question last night. At first it sounded simple to answer, but the more I thought about it the more complicated it became. I've got a general thought on the subject now, but I'm wondering what the rest of you think?

Please read the question carefully before answering. Note it refers to people as a whole, not me, you, or any other specific person. I'm particularly interested in answers that are more complex than "because God commands us to".

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Darius11 12]

1. Belief God or Karma
2. Consequences for your action, The law, losing a loved one, losing respect etc.
3. Other then the consequences we need morals too have a more peaceful life.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Keith 0]

I know you're looking for an answer for society in general but I can only speak for me. I do my damndest to be moral be cause I have a consience and I like to sleep at night. It really is that simple for me. I learned a very long time ago that when I wrong someone I feel like crap until I make it right. So, I'd rather do the right thing from the start and avoid the whole guilt complex I would give myself.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[MarkM 0]

Hmmm, morality is a type of behavior that is set by any given society. People in that society should be moral, because otherwise that society couldn't function well with itself. Societies that don't function well are wiped out by those that do.

At its core, morality is a social structure based in our biology. Just like wolves have an alpha male that sets structure in a pack, humans have laws, religion and moral codes. Moral codes can be the least strict of the structures and most easily bent or adapted within our constantly evolving societies.

[pajarito 0]

Why should we be moral?

I can’t separate God from the equation but I’ll try and give a response other than “because God commands us to.”

1. In order to have healthy and productive relationships between individuals in a society.

2. In order to maintain the health inside the individual.

3. In order to maintain the intended relationship between the individual and the power that made him/her.

[diablopilot 2]

1. Respect for myself.

That's it.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[PhillyKev 0]

1. Respect for other people.

That's it.

[diablopilot 2]

I guess that's a way to look at it.

I think Respect for myself is both a prerequisite, and a breading point for respect for others.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[PhillyKev 0]

No doubt, but that's not WHY I choose to uphold my morals. That's a means to being able to.

I find it interesting that several have stated religion or God as the reason to be moral and not respect for other people. I guess religion does still have some usefullness if it's the only thing keeping people from mistreating others.

[diablopilot 2]

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I guess religion does still have some usefullness if it's the only thing keeping people from mistreating others.

I think history (using the Catholic church as a prime example) showes that mistreating others (often outside their "club") is what religion is best at.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[MarkM 0]

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I think history (using the Catholic church as a prime example) showes that mistreating others (often outside their "club") is what religion is best at.

Jeez. You do one spanish inquisition and they never let you live it down

[PhillyKev 0]

That's because.......

[John Clease Voice]
"No one expects the Spanish Inquisition".[/John Clease Voice]

[livendive 8]

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I guess that's a way to look at it.

I think Respect for myself is both a prerequisite, and a breading point for respect for others.

A good point that touches on the hows of consequentialist morality (egoism versus utilitarianism) but doesn't explain "why" humans should subscribe to either tenet. Why should people respect themselves and/or others?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[lawrocket 3]

Good question. I suppose it comes down to society. I, for one, do not believe the "morality" can be individually defined.

it can be "societally" defined, which is why morals in one place (statutory rape laws with differing ages) are different from another.

But, morality sets the general rules for society. THis is the social contract - defining how people should interact for the betterment of society.

When those act in an immoral fashion, it damages the society. For example, when immmorality exists in the stock market, confidence in the stock market is lowered, and people do not invest in it. This causes a lowered standard for society, when the benefit of investment is what one wants. Therefore, Martha Stewart, operating at an advantage to everyone else, gets punished to instill confidence in the market.

The good point is that "morality" is changing. Not all personal choices are immoral. Homosexuality was once pretty damned bad. Now it's generally accepted in US society because it has a de minimus impact on the social contract. This is why sodomy laws are no longer valid. They simply do not damage society.

So, to answer the question - one should be moral so that society does not make you face the consequences of immoral acts.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

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I find it interesting that several have stated religion or God as the reason to be moral and not respect for other people. I guess religion does still have some usefullness if it's the only thing keeping people from mistreating others.

I've had several arguments with religious people who believed that there can be no morality without God.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[PhillyKev 0]

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Why should people respect themselves and/or others?

Purely selfish for my part. Empathy for other people makes me feel bad when other people are hurt or suffering. I don't like to feel bad.

[livendive 8]

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1. In order to have healthy and productive relationships between individuals in a society.

This hints at my suspicion...that a fundamental sense of morality is built into the human animal as a means of propogating the species. Just out of curiousity though, what do you mean by "productive" relationships?

Edit to add...in retrospect, I'm not answering my own question. The survival of the species thing is why I suspect we are relatively moral creatures, and not necessarily why we should be moral.

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2. In order to maintain the health inside the individual.

I guess I mostly agree. I think most of us recognize that immoral (as opposed to amoral) people do not lead happy, mentally healthy lives. Amoral people may be perfectly happy, though they will almost certainly qualify as insane. The question then becomes a bit deeper. Do we classify an amoral person as insane solely because our definition of sanity includes an inate sense of morality?

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3. In order to maintain the intended relationship between the individual and the power that made him/her.

OK, I disagree with this one on two points. Obviously I don't believe we have a "creator" and I doubt you're referring to our parents. But additionally, if I were to accept that such a creator exists, how would a person being moral, immoral, or amoral change the intended relationship between him/her and their creator? If a man commits an immoral act, how does that upset the intended relationship between him and his God?

Aw what the heck, 2 out of 3 ain't bad. :-)

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Luv2Fall 0]

.........a component of "order" in society?

[kallend 2,107]

Because it's in our own self-interest. Morality is just one example of cooperation with the rest of society.


In the broadest sense, it is described by game theory.

cepa.newschool.edu/het/schools/game.htm

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pajarito 0]

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This hints at my suspicion...that a fundamental sense of morality is built into the human animal as a means of propogating the species. Just out of curiousity though, what do you mean by "productive" relationships?

I do believe that a fundamental sense of morality and knowledge of right and wrong is built into the human. I was not referring necessarily to propagation of the species although that is important. By productive, I meant purposeful and meaningful.

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I guess I mostly agree. I think most of us recognize that immoral (as opposed to amoral) people do not lead happy, mentally healthy lives. Amoral people may be perfectly happy, though they will almost certainly qualify as insane. The question then becomes a bit deeper. Do we classify an amoral person as insane solely because our definition of sanity includes an inate sense of morality?

That is a good question. I think that’s possible as a contributor at the most basic level. How we decide and apply what is right and wrong.

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OK, I disagree with this one on two points. Obviously I don't believe we have a "creator" and I doubt you're referring to our parents. But additionally, if I were to accept that such a creator exists, how would a person being moral, immoral, or amoral change the intended relationship between him/her and their creator? If a man commits an immoral act, how does that upset the intended relationship between him and his God?

The nature of God is holy and just. He sets the standard for morality (***I understand that many here don’t go with that and I respect their opinions***). We are not holy and just, are selfish by nature, and do not measure up to God’s standard of morality. Only through his son Jesus are we reconciled with God. Through faith in Jesus, we must attempt to live according to those morals. God hates and will not tolerate immorality and sin. Therefore, because of that, there is a gap in the relationship between God and man.
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- Relations between people.
- Things inside each person.
- Relations between the person and God.

Most agree with the first, disagreements begin with the second, and they become more serious with the third.

[newsstand 0]

Because it is the right thing to do.

BTW no supreme being related controls here. I am an athiest.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[crwmike 0]

Quote

I'm taking an ethics class and we came across this question last night. At first it sounded simple to answer, but the more I thought about it the more complicated it became. I've got a general thought on the subject now, but I'm wondering what the rest of you think?

Please read the question carefully before answering. Note it refers to people as a whole, not me, you, or any other specific person. I'm particularly interested in answers that are more complex than "because God commands us to".

Blues,
Dave

There is only one reason, it is it's own reward.

Michael

[jimmytavino 16]

everyone. Then harmony and equilibrium become part of the system and that is good...
The tough part is being a moral person and finding that many people and situations we encounter all the time.... are not moral... or ethical.. or honest or even fair...It's difficult when the numbers are against you...
Still the moral person needs to press on for personal peace of mind and as pointed out , self respect..May the numbers of moral people continue to grow,,,, but if they don't then surround yourself with the few that may be out there....
Wouldn't it be nice if society could be .. like a well choreographed skydive,,, cooperative, enthusiastic, exciting, built to completion, with everyone doing their part, and each landing safely..... hahahaha.." as if".!!!. o[:-) jmy

[pajarito 0]

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This hints at my suspicion...that a fundamental sense of morality is built into the human animal as a means of propogating the species.

I’d like to elaborate on this a bit. Your statement above leads me to think that you believe morality is tied closely with our natural instincts or “herd instinct (i.e. Establish conditions conducive to reproduction among other natural human functions) which some here have said developed over long periods of time through the process of evolution. As many here already know, I believe that basic fundamental morality and knowledge of right and wrong is there but that it came from God. I don’t expect for you to believe that, however, I’d like to point out some differences between what would be considered an instinct and that which might not. A feeling or desire to help someone else might be an instinct just like a desire for food when you’re hungry or a desire to sleep when you’re tired. If someone is in danger, you might feel two desires. One might be to help the person (herd instinct) and the other to protect you (self-preservation). However, those instincts or impulses are different from that “something” inside you that says to help the person without regard for your own safety. Both the “herd instinct” and the “self-preservation” instinct might be good in its own way, however, what “directs” these instincts and tells you what you “aught” to do and why (even if it’s not in your own best interest)? Some here might also say that it is simply yet another phantom evolving process just like all the rest. I’m just saying that it makes one think.

[ltdiver 3]

Ever notice that those who choose to be immoral are not taken seriously.

I mean, if they go the route of damaging themselves and others, people tend to shy away and want nothing to do with them (other than those who are also immoral).

They can't be trusted.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon