Ronstadt kicked out of hotel

[PhillyKev 0]

Gotcha....you're making statements about his political beliefs without actually listening to anything he's said. Makes sense. Seems to be a common trait among Bush supporters to make blanket statements that anyone who doesn't like Bush hates America and is a socialist. That's much easier than listening to a different view point than your own and possibly learning something.

[Steel 0]

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Senn Penn went to Afganistan after 9/11 to express support for the enemy.

When did this happen? Sean Penn went to Afghanistan and expressed support for the Taliban and AQ?

my mistake I stand corrected it was or atleast I am not finding specific data on Afganistan. So here is some on Iraq.

Sean Penn went to Iraq a year ago not as an actor, but as a father, a husband and an American. He made the visit, from Dec. 13 to 15, 2002, to learn about the American-Iraqi conflict from the people who were living through it. A year later, the week before Saddam Hussein was captured, Penn returned to Iraq to find out how life had changed after the American invasion. What follows is his account of what he saw.
Actually he went not as an actor, nor a father, nor a husband, and certainly not as an American. He went both times as a self-serving moron on his own imaginary jihad.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Jimbo 0]

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Senn Penn went to Afganistan after 9/11 to express support for the enemy.

You're going to have to back that one up. I've looked around and while it's fair to say that Sean Penn has protested the war since day one, I can't find anything about a trip to Afghanistan -or- support for the enemy.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Jimbo 0]

Sheesh. The entire article here.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhillyKev 0]

So he went to Iraq to get first hand knowledge of the issues. That bastard actually formed his opinions based on personal experience instead of propaganda. Shame on him, he hates America!!!

[Steel 0]

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So he went to Iraq to get first hand knowledge of the issues. That bastard actually formed his opinions based on personal experience instead of propaganda. Shame on him, he hates America!!!

Yeah and Hanoi Jane went to Vietnam just to see for herself right?
See that is the difference most conservatives hated the Vietnam war/conflict. President Nixon ran his campaign on getting the U.S. out of there. Kennedy was the one that brought us there in the first place. But regardless of that and American patriot never joins foreigners cheering against the U.S. Its like if you got into an Arguement with your mother you can say whatever you want to her. But you don't go to her enemies and bash her with them. If you do then there is something wrong with you.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Jimbo 0]

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But regardless of that and American patriot never joins foreigners cheering against the U.S.

Are you suggesting that Sean Penn cheered against the US?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Steel 0]

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But regardless of that and American patriot never joins foreigners cheering against the U.S.

Are you suggesting that Sean Penn cheered against the US?

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Jim

yes, he was not there trying to convince Saddam Hussein to adhere to the 17 U.N. resolutions to avoid war. I am sure of that.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[TypicalFish 0]

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But regardless of that and American patriot never joins foreigners cheering against the U.S.

I thought our war wasn't with the Iraqi people, that they were GLAD we were there. Maybe he was sitting in the wrong cheering section by mistake...

I am not defending ANYBODY who would cheer against the USA; what I am asking is that since our war is to liberate and help the Iraqis, wouldn't that be a show of support?

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[PhillyKev 0]

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President Nixon ran his campaign on getting the U.S. out of there.

Ok, so now not only Moore, but Penn were bashing Americans. Is this something else that you don't really have any evidence of because you were tuning them out and just assumed that's what they were doing? Or is this what Rush or Ann told you?

[kallend 2,106]

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President Nixon ran his campaign on getting the U.S. out of there.

Ok, so now not only Moore, but Penn were bashing Americans. Is this something else that you don't really have any evidence of because you were tuning them out and just assumed that's what they were doing? Or is this what Rush or Ann told you?

Maybe you're too young to remember. Nixon had a "secret plan" to end US involvement in Vietnam.

When he won the election, it turns out there was no plan.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PhillyKev 0]

Yeah...actually I quoted that becasue I was originally going to respond along those lines. But wanted to stay on topic.

You're right though, Nixon's campaign was based on "peace with honor". Wasn't much honorable about Vietnam including and especially the end of our involvement there.

[happythoughts 0]

Some people seem to be pointing to movie ticket sales as an indicator of popularity for Michael Moore. I guess that "hundreds of people" streaming from an event would be another indicator.

The article estimated that half of the 4500 people attending walked out. Apparently, it wasn't just a benign expression of opinion either.

People may be for MM, but apparently there is some very opinionated people in opposition to him.

[PhillyKev 0]

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The article estimated that half of the 4500 people attending walked out.

In a news story on the radio, they clarified that they didn't all walk out when she dedicated a song to Moore. They were filtering out throughout the show because it was billed as a greatest hits show and she didn't do her greatest hits. Also she was apparently bitching and complaining about the hotel and its amenities throughout the show.

[happythoughts 0]

I was at a Santana show in Tampa Stadium years ago. The whole thing holds 70,000, they used one side of the stadium. Estimate? 20,000 attended.

By the end of the concert, half had walked out due to his choice of music. He was promoting the "Mahavishnu Orchestra" stuff and it sucked. He never played any of his hits.

However, with LR, the article mentions a mix of boos and applause for the political parts. If only half of the walkouts were for pol reasons, 1000 is 25%. That is still a lot.

Personally, I get tired of paying entertainers who feel that they should "educate" me to their version of the "truth". I pay them to entertain me.

It is an abuse of my trust that I paid for fun and am subjected to irritation. This is similar to going to a website and dealing with popups continuously until you get frustrated enough to exit. If you paid to get to a website with constant popups, you'd be pissed.

Some people are forgetting what their job is.

[PhillyKev 0]

I went to Lollapalooza last year, the main reason to see Jane's Addition. More than half the crowd left before their set (they were last). Why? Because they never heard of them.

Man...did I feel old....

[kallend 2,106]

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I was at a Santana show in Tampa Stadium years ago. The whole thing holds 70,000, they used one side of the stadium. Estimate? 20,000 attended.

By the end of the concert, half had walked out due to his choice of music. He was promoting the "Mahavishnu Orchestra" stuff and it sucked. He never played any of his hits.

However, with LR, the article mentions a mix of boos and applause for the political parts. If only half of the walkouts were for pol reasons, 1000 is 25%. That is still a lot.

Personally, I get tired of paying entertainers who feel that they should "educate" me to their version of the "truth". I pay them to entertain me.

It is an abuse of my trust that I paid for fun and am subjected to irritation. This is similar to going to a website and dealing with popups continuously until you get frustrated enough to exit. If you paid to get to a website with constant popups, you'd be pissed.

Some people are forgetting what their job is.

Yes!
I once walked out of a lecture by a Nobel Prizewinner - because I couldn't understand what he was talking about

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sundevil777 102]

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>I don't see any (edit-unusual) anti-war stuff in Manhattan Project, though.

"The end had begun, it would hit everyone
when the chain reaction was done
Big shots try to hold it back, fools try to wish it away
The hopeful depend on a world without end
whatever the hopeless may say"

I don't see anything so unusual there. Not pacifist/not for disarmament, not fatalistic.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Muenkel 0]

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As for Linda Ronstadt, she is an incredibly talented performer and I would enjoy seeing her in concert. As for her political views, I could give a rats ass.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The above is the reaction I would have expected from Americans.

But the reaction was hysterical. I thought you guys are so proud of free speech? I wonder if anybody would have been kicked out of a venue for praising GWB. It is also interesting that people tore down posters etc. Seems like people who have leftist views in America now are being persecuted by the corporate sector (thinking of Dixie Chicks, Goldberg etc.). Never heard this happen to conservatives. Seems like the attitude from the right is getting more and more aggressive. I just need to read this forum. A little like the 50's revisited.

Mikkey,

With all due respect, you completely misunderstood my point. I was saying that she is extremely talented and I would love to hear her in concert. I was also saying that I really don't care about her political views, as I'm sure she doesn't care about mine. The point is, if I dump some cash to see her in concert, I want to hear her sing. If I wanted to hear her political views, I would attend a political rally if she was a guest speaker.

As for the folks who vandalized her posters, they are just as stupid. Two wrongs do not make a right.

_________________________________________
Chris

[ryoder 1,590]

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Maybe you're too young to remember. Nixon had a "secret plan" to end US involvement in Vietnam.

When he won the election, it turns out there was no plan.

Hey you aren't giving the whole story!
It was a SECRET plan, to end an UNDECLARED war, and it was backed by a SILENT majority.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[mikkey 0]

Lately I am really getting worried about the polarization in the US in a political sense, and when I read this forum it seems to be a valid feeling.

The political debate seems to be driven by people manipulating facts to their liking and at the same type demonising the opposition.

In one corner you have Michael Moore who uses the same tricks in Film to manipulate as the Nazis did and in the other corner you have the right wing propaganda machine of Fox News using similar misinformation techniques.

So people watching Moore get manipulated to think GWB was bought by the Saudi’s to wage war against Iraq and in bed with OBL. Fox News viewers get manipulated into thinking that Iraq was connected to 9/11 and that WMD’s actually existed in Iraq when the war began.

At the same time I see the right-wingers here use a tone that is extremely aggressive and label people who do not agree with them as “enemies” (anti-American). The MM camp on the other hand is flogging conspiracy theories.

I am personally a big critic of GWB’s foreign policy and the way the whole Iraq thing was handled pre and post war. However, the way MM tries to manipulate people and handles “facts” is no iota better then the crap, right wing media like Fox News is spouting.

Things a rarely black or white, but from afar it looks like the “uniter” seems to really have polarized the American people. The Linda Ronstadt incident tells me that the political climate in the US has deteriorated to a level I only remember from the late Nixon era.

---------------------------------------------------------
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[sundevil777 102]

Fox News certainly is a threat to liberals.

I think the dems are guilty of polarizing the political climate. It started when they tried to steal the election by getting a selective recount without standards, and has not stopped since.

I seem to remember you using an aggressive tone once in a while.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Fox News certainly is a threat to liberals.

I think the dems are guilty of polarizing the political climate. It started when they tried to steal the election by getting a selective recount without standards, and has not stopped since.

Excellent post, excellent points.

I have a good friend who is constantly sending me jibes and "questions" (leading questions) regarding politics and GWB, whom he detests; he's constantly trying to point out to me the error of my ways, politically and ideologically. The thing is, the way he goes about it is so JUVENILE -- lacing his comments with things like "the chimp in chief," or "the thief who occupies the White House," or "Shrub," or "the SELected president"... His petty jabs are such a distraction from any validity that his message might otherwise have, that I can't usually get past them. And I note that this is a tendency that is extremely common among liberals as they disparage the president. And lemme tell ya, it comes off sounding really pathetic.

You can't tell me that democrats aren't divisive, sniping, whining malcontents when all they seem to do these days is glory in every failure, and minimize every accomplishment, of the sitting president. The name-calling should be beneath anyone who wishes to run a country, but they don't see it that way and they don't stop.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[billvon 3,068]

> Not pacifist/not for disarmament, not fatalistic.

Correct. Just anti-war. The hopeful depend on a future without nuclear war.

[billvon 3,068]

>Fox News certainly is a threat to liberals.

Not really. Anyone who depends on FOX news for their information is easy to defeat in a debate; they tend to believe things that aren't true. Debating based on what someone sees on FOX is like bringing a knife to a gunfight,.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/FOX_News