kallend 2,027 #76 July 26, 2004 QuoteI think he was talking more along the lines of folks you'd find in this organization: http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/ or here http://www.vnsfvetakerry.com/ I don't know a lot of veterans or active duty folks who like socialists very much - and I know a lot of vets and active duty people. Anecdote. One of the most avowed socialists I ever met was a Vietnam vet.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #77 July 26, 2004 QuoteQuoteAbout as well as you're able to discredit Michael Moore's. His film has already been discredited. Read the 9/11 commission report. I would guess close to over 90% of his film was discredited from the report. Not that we had to have the commission's report to tell us that. Those of us who aren't a sheep knew it was pure fiction from the word go. Well, it still has quite an audience. From Hollywood Reporter: "Lions Gate/IFC Films' "Fahrenheit 9/11" also notched another milestone. On Saturday, as part of its fifth weekend of release, Michael Moore's film, already the highest-grossing documentary of all time, crossed the $100 million mark, a first for a nonfiction film."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #78 July 26, 2004 Hey, let's call Spiderman2 a non-fiction film too!! Wow, look how great it did for a non-fiction piece!! What do you mean it was fiction? New York exists, so does the Hudson river... both were in the film... it MUST be a documentary!Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #79 July 26, 2004 I know a couple of commie Vietnam vets and one socialist one as well. And a few democrats too. They are the exception to the rule - at least from my own experience. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #80 July 26, 2004 QuoteWhat do you mean it was fiction? New York exists, so does the Hudson river... So do Kirsten Dunst's perky breasts.... - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #81 July 26, 2004 QuoteQuotePerhaps you're not familiar with how this country came to be? Apples and oranges. A revolutionary war and whining/bitching/crying/moaning about your country and it's leader is not even remotely close to being in the same ballpark. Tuna- you do know what revolutionary means, right? The revolutionary war begain in 1775 in response to lots of whining/bitching/crying/moaning by the colonists which the King didn't deem fit to address. There wasn't any of this in Iraq when Saddam was in charge, but is that what you would prefer? Death to whiners? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #82 July 26, 2004 Apples and oranges. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #83 July 26, 2004 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Would you have prefered he screamed like a little girl and ran out? If you bother to LOOK at him you can tell he is thinking as harder than most.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No. But I would have preferred that he'd have enough wits about him to calmly say "Excuse me, I'm very sorry, but I have some important business that needs tending to." And then calmly walk out of the room. The reason he looks like he's thinking is not because as Moore implies... that he's thinking about all his Saudi buddies screwing him over... it's because he's trying to figure out WTF to do... and he froze during 7 precious minutes of an attack upon our country. You are the President of the US...You are told that an Accident happened...Then a few min later you are told that the US is under attack in a way that was not thought possible....And attack larger than any attack on US soil...ever. You think FDR jumped up and called the troops to action in 1 min after Peal Harbor? I doubt it. And the other thing is you Bush bashers would have gone nuts if he did just get up....You already are saying he acted to fast on everything else... Yes, he should have left the room... But its called shock people....Humans experience it. Bush is not super human. I can't find fault in 7 mins. 1. If he was needed they would have gotten him. 2. If he was at risk, they would have had him out of there...As it was in less than 30 min he was airborne with no destination. In 1 hour they had the Vice and his wife in the bunker in contact with the Pres in AF1 on comms and F15 scrambled in the skies....Really not bad. 3. You have very little confidence in any part of the US defense system if you think that things were not happening or could not happen without the President. 4. You know NOTHING about security if you think they should have grabbed him that second. 5. You know nothing about stress and leadership if you think that you or anyone could have handled it better. Get over 7 mins. QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then he goes on about how the Military targets poor kids....Duh!!! They have been doing that for 200 years, now its a big issue? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No. His point is that the fatcats start wars, leave it to the poor to fight them and then reap the financial benefits of the plunder. And he glosses right over the fact that those same kids use the system, cash the paychecks, go to school...until they are asked to DO THE JOB THEY WILLINGLY SIGNED UP TO DO. QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You have EVIDENCE that we knew he didn't have WMD's? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iraq had a hand in 9/11? Last year did you have PROOF he didn't? ...Iraq harbored Al Qaida operatives & training camps?...Again? Got Proof he didn't? Did you a year ago? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guilty until proven innocent eh? He had them, he used them, and he never said how he got rid of them like he was supposed to under the UN resolution. He was guilty. He was never innocent. Your buddy Kerry said he was quilty, the UN said he was quilty. QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Large companies that can actually handle the contracts? you mean those companies? Or would you rather give the contracts to companies that can't handle the scope of the contract and put US men and women in danger or more discomfort? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No. I'd just prefer that they be put out for cometetive bidding like most other government contracts rather than just handing them over to the Prez' and Vice Prez's buddies. Then you know NOTHING about HOW the contracts were "handed out"...I suggest you read up on it... You know how hard it would have been for the companies that bid to challenge it? ONE STAMP....All they had to do was send ONE letter...Yet no one did. And for the record, there are VERY few companies that can handle a contract of that size and scope with the security needed.... I guess you would have prefered we risked our guys lives on a new untried company?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #84 July 26, 2004 I'm glad our leader handled the situation with a calm and thoughtful process. Instead of leaping up and screaming, "the horror!!!!!," he calmly finished reading the section he was on and then excused himself. Very professional. And in retrospect, him leaping up and screaming as he ran out of the room wouldn't have mattered nor saved any lives. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #85 July 26, 2004 My thoughts..................regardless of how President Bush would have reacted and responded, that day, he would have been "wrong".............sad, but true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #86 July 26, 2004 Well, part of what comes with being President is the fact that no matter what you do, some people will disagree. There were folks who disagreed with Wilson during WW1, FDR during WW2, and Truman during Korea. Never mind Vietnam. We are not a homogeneous people who pull the same way without dissent under all circumstances. If we were, we would not be the America we are now. A whole lot of liberals happen to think that GWB handled the situation after 911 pretty well. Not perfectly, but pretty well in general. It's possible to think that someone is less than perfect without being a traitor. Personally, I think the 7-minute wait was both wrong, and silly to spend so much time pointing out. I'd much rather concentrate on the Patriot act, and on all of the time folks have spent since then saying that anyone who disagrees with the President (or with them, since most of them appear to have direct lines to the President ) are traitors. We were a rabble when we started out as a country. We spent centuries accepting the folks who in large part were both poor enough to risk giving up the little they had in Europe and other countries, and scrappy enough to go across the world with little to risk making a new life. Those are not orderly people. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #87 July 26, 2004 Open Question If MM had a personal problem with skydiving, who here would want him to do a "Documentary" on it? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #88 July 26, 2004 That was brilliant. And we all know of stupid things that jumpers do sometimes that would appear, don't we? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #89 July 26, 2004 Quote If MM had a personal problem with skydiving, who here would want him to do a "Documentary" on it? Wasn't he a consultant on "Cutaway"? Ok, all joking aside would you want Guy Manos to make a documentary about skydiving? Just change a couple of names, make it 10-way and there ya go.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #90 July 26, 2004 QuoteIf MM had a personal problem with skydiving, who here would want him to do a "Documentary" on it? I would. And, I'd watch it. I'm not an ostrich - I like to be informed. And I recognize that - just because MM might exaggerate and portray the worst aspects of the sport to make his point or to get people to wake and take notice - there are ways to address the 'real' issues that may (or may not) come to light. Just because I love the sport of skydiving doesn't mean it's above question. Nothing is. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #91 July 26, 2004 I can truly appreciate your perspective.........looking at the "whole pie" instead of just a "slice". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #92 July 26, 2004 QuoteI'm glad our leader handled the situation with a calm and thoughtful process. Instead of leaping up and screaming, "the horror!!!!!," You mean like if they decided the next day that Iraq needed to be bombed and tried to find any reason to justify it, but when they couldn't, they waited 2 months to send a few thousand troops to Afghanistan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #93 July 26, 2004 Quotewould you want Guy Manos to make a documentary about skydiving thanks ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #94 July 26, 2004 QuoteOk, all joking aside would you want Guy Manos to make a documentary about skydiving? Just change a couple of names, make it 10-way and there ya go. Yes I would. Guy has been making movies for entertainment purposes. He probably knows more about skydiving that most people will ever know. If he ever does a documentary, it will be stellar. I can't think of anyone better for the job. Until then, his fictional movies are presented as such. They are for entertainment purposes. He makes no claim that they represent the truth. The most ardent of MMs supporters will grudgingly admit that he "stretches/alters the truth". According to him, his intent is purportedly to "educate/enlighten" or "get people thinking". If that was the case, why would he want people to edit things in such a way as to mislead them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #95 July 26, 2004 QuoteA whole lot of liberals happen to think that GWB handled the situation after 911 pretty well. LOL. Yeah, I see that from reading these forums. Nothing but intelligent, level-headed, logical liberals on these forums Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #96 July 26, 2004 QuoteApples and oranges. Saying that over and over won't make it true. You might look at the French and Indian War as a possible analog. Expensive, life consuming, increasingly unpopular. The primary difference is that this year the people can vote out the leadership, barring any attempts to delay the election (unlikely). The potential breakdown lies in the high incumbency advantage - if the people can't get rid of people/viewpoints they don't support, they get very frustrated. Back then, as now, dissent started in exactly the form that Moore uses. Consider the Boston Tea Party the next step up. And when all of that failed, enough people decided that it was worth risking war to make it better. You would have been a Tory, saying the rebels were whining about their great life under King George. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #97 July 26, 2004 QuoteI would. And, I'd watch it. I'm not an ostrich - I like to be informed. And I recognize that - just because MM might exaggerate and portray the worst aspects of the sport to make his point or to get people to wake and take notice - there are ways to address the 'real' issues that may (or may not) come to light. Just because I love the sport of skydiving doesn't mean it's above question. Nothing is. So, how many times would you like to see people getting injured and commentary taken out of context to suggest how insensitive we are. Just look at the Incidents forum. They don't even bother to give condolences. They just criticize. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #98 July 26, 2004 QuoteThe revolutionary war begain in 1775 in response to lots of whining/bitching/crying/moaning by the colonists which the King didn't deem fit to address. Great! Go grab Quade and PhillyKerry and march to Madison Square Gardens on the 30th with your weapons in hand and protest about how much you hate Bush and the current reign of evil and that you feel America should revolt. After that run to the nearest Starbucks, steal all of their coffee and run to the harbor and dump it in the water in the name of liberals. Make sure you all wear bright colors. The snipers may have old, outdated scopes Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #99 July 26, 2004 So, you'd prefer the first steps to be violence rather than discourse? (No wonder we're in Iraq.)quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #100 July 26, 2004 QuoteSo, you'd prefer the first steps to be violence rather than discourse? (No wonder we're in Iraq.) I'm a bit puzzled myself. I thought the value of the First Ammendment was not in doubt. Tuna - you're now advocating what we generally refer to as "terrorism" for anyone that doesn't like the status quo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
