PhillyKev 0 #51 July 25, 2004 QuoteI would love for you and many other liberals on here to have to serve in a forward unit for a week. Would definitly change your mindset about leadership and patriotism. Liberals like Kerry? Or did you mean liberals like Wesley Clark? Or did you mean veterans like those here. http://www.veteransunitedforkerry.com/vote/index.php Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #52 July 25, 2004 The man looks as if he doesn't bathe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #53 July 25, 2004 QuoteIf he's such a liar, then why hasn't anyone ever successfully sued him for liable? li·bel ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbl) n. - A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation. - The act of presenting such material to the public. -The written claims presented by a plaintiff in an action at admiralty law or to an ecclesiastical court. Quote Maybe a lawyer could answer that question, but I think it's hard to sue for libel in a lot of cases. Or maybe it's just not worth it since so many people already know he's full of caca.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #54 July 25, 2004 Because he's fat, I hate fat people!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #55 July 25, 2004 Quote Maybe a lawyer could answer that question, but I think it's hard to sue for libel in a lot of cases. Or maybe it's just not worth it since so many people already know he's full of caca. No. (BTW, in case you haven't guessed it, Moore himself has spoken about this in several interviews.) The reason he doesn't get sued for liable is because he has a team of lawyers go over everything with a fine tooth comb. He doesn't say anything against individuals that he can't back up to a fairly good degree. He is -extremely- good at what he does. He goes right up to the line, doesn't cross it, yet doesn't stop the viewer from crossing it. This is why there are -so- many misconceptions about what Moore has said. Moore usually says stuff that is true, but allows the viewers to fill in the gaps. It's a bit like the shower scene in the Hitchcock movie "Psycho". In the film there isn't a single frame where you see a knife stab her in the shower, yet in interviews after the film, a LOT of folks will tell you they saw it happen. It never did -- they filled in the blanks in their own heads. Moore's detractors are usually fighting things Moore hasn't actually said.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #56 July 25, 2004 QuoteMoore's detractors are usually fighting things Moore hasn't actually said. Do you really need to SAY something to say it? Like if I were to say that MM's production company MAY be dealing with Hezbollah to get the film promoted in the mid-east... did I actually say he WAS doing it? Or just imply in no uncertain terms that something's up? If it isn't true, is it libel? So intent doesn't actually have any bearing I guess. You and I both know what MM is saying by not saying something... the only thing he does is just enough to keep his ass from being sued. But to argue that he didn't mean to imply something, you'd be nuts.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #57 July 25, 2004 QuoteMoore usually says stuff that is true Like saying that Gore won the election in every recount scenario? Like showing Iraq as a paradise with children flying kites, families having barbeques and everyone happy as can be living their life in peace before we came over and invaded? Yeah. He's a truthful person. Quade, you seem to read and study this man quite a bit (not to mention you defend him like he was your younger brother getting picked on in high school). Let it go, bro. There are far many and better men to idolize and look up to. Take a ride down to your closest military base and talk to and study them. Those are men and women worth looking at. Those are the people that deserve to be labeled patriots. Not some fat loser who lies to hurt America and my leader. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #58 July 25, 2004 Quote Quade, you seem to read and study this man quite a bit . . . He's a film maker -- in part, it's my business. Regardless of how much validity I give his claims in the movie, I admire his film making technique. It is a powerful film that evokes an emotional responce. BTW, have you seen it yet? Quote Take a ride down to your closest military base and talk to and study them. Those are men and women worth looking at. Those are the people that deserve to be labeled patriots. Not some fat loser who lies to hurt America and my leader. Let me suggest to you that while the people in the military are for the most part honorable, there are some that aren't. All one need do is look at the situation at the Abu Ghraib Prison and that becomes, unfortunately, all too obvious. In -any- group of people, you will find a percentage of them that are less than perfect. This includes the people that currently occupy The White House.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #59 July 25, 2004 QuoteMoore usually says stuff that is true, but allows the viewers to fill in the gaps. So how much of F911 fell into the category of his "usual" truth telling? How many of the fifty-nine deceits can you make an argument against? It has been referenced before, but so many keep talking about "facts are facts" without addressing these assertions of his lying. http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htmPeople are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #60 July 25, 2004 Let me just counter that web site with this one. http://michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #61 July 25, 2004 QuoteLet me just counter that web site with this one. http://michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/ Ok, the very first "factual back-up" on this site may not be factual: QuoteFAHRENHEIT 9/11: Fox was the first network to call Florida for Bush. Before that, some other networks had called Florida for Gore, and they changed after Fox called it for Bush. “With information provided from the Voter News Service, NBC was the first network to project Gore the winner in Florida at 7:48 pm. At 7:50 pm ,CNN and CBS project Gore the winner in Florida as well.” By 8:02 pm , all five networks and the Associated Press had called Gore the winner in Florida. Even the VNS called Gore the winner at 7:52 pm. At 2:16 am, Fox calls Florida for Bush, NBC follows at 2:16 am. ABC is the last network to call the Florida for Bush, at 2:20 am, while AP and VNS never call Florida for Bush. CNN: Did MM forget about CNN and CBS? From the 59 deceits page: QuoteAt 10:00 p.m., which networks took the lead in retracting the premature Florida win for Gore? They were CNN and CBS, not Fox. (The two networks were using a shared Decision Team.) See Linda Mason, Kathleen Francovic & Kathleen Hall Jamieson, “CBS News Coverage of Election Night 2000: Investigation, Analysis, Recommendations” (CBS News, Jan. 2001), pp. 12-25.) Making a movie that is powerful and evokes an emotional response is no virtue in itself. When it is called a documentary by the maker, it should hold up to scrutiny, not just given a pass because it makes people think! From the 59 deceits page: QuoteThe key to Moore's response, and to the movie itself, is summarized by Boston University Law Professor Randy Barnett: ...I was struck by the sheer cunningness of Moore's film. When you read Kopel, try to detach yourself from any revulsion you may feel at a work of literal propaganda receiving such wide-spread accolades from mainstream politicos, as well as attendance by your friends and neighbors. Instead, notice the film's meticulousness in saying only (or mostly) "true" or defensible things in support of a completely misleading impression. In this way, Kopel's care in describing Moore's "deceits" is much more interesting than other critiques I have read, including that of Christopher Hitchens. Kopel's lawyerly description of Moore's claims shows the film to be a genuinely impressive accomplishment in a perverse sort of way (the way an ingenious crime is impressive)--a case study in how to convert elements that are mainly true into an impression that is entirely false--and this leads in turn to another thought. If this much cleverness was required to create the inchoate "conspiracy" (whatever it may be, as it is never really specified by Moore), it suggests there was no such conspiracy. With this much care and effort invested in uncovering and massaging the data, if there really was a conspiracy of the kind Moore suggests, the evidence would line up more neatly behind it, rather than being made to do cartwheels so as to be "true" but oh-so-misleading. If the facts don't fit, shouldn't we acquit? People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #62 July 25, 2004 QuoteLet me just counter that web site with this one. ROFLMAO. You counter to websites disputing his lies is a website from the liar himself? LOL. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #63 July 25, 2004 Who better to refute the claims made by Dave Kopel than the guy Dave Kopen is talking about? BTW, who the fuck is Dave Kopel anyway?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #64 July 25, 2004 QuoteWho better to refute the claims made by Dave Kopel than the guy Dave Kopen is talking about? I didn't have to go past the first point to prove he is lying about not lying. Any other sources? QuoteBTW, who the fuck is Dave Kopel anyway? He's a conservative, what the fuck do you think. This is from his home page, which is pretty fucking easy to find from the page which describes all of the fucking deceipts of MM's fucking mockumentary. Research Director of the Independence Institute Director of the Center on the Digital Economy at the Heartland Institute Associate Policy Analyst, Cato Institute. Columnist, National Review Online. Columnist, Rocky Mountain News/Denver Post. Contributing Editor, Liberty magazine. Editor-in-Chief, Journal on Firearms & Public Policy. Contributing Editor, Gun Week, Gun News Digest. Contributing Legal Editor, The Firearms & Outdoor Trade. Adjunct Professor of Law, New York University, 1998-99. Course syllabus. Board of Advisors, Porto Libro. Board of Directors, Colorado Union of Taxpayers. Website designer, MaryLinks. Background Former Assistant Attorney General, State of Colorado. Hazardous and solid waste enforcement. University of Michigan Law School, J.D. magna cum laude. Contributing Editor, Michigan Law Review. Brown University, B.A. in History with Highest Honors. National Geographic Society Prize for best History thesis. State of Arizona, concealed handgun license instructor. NRA-certified instructor for Pistol and for Personal Protection. NRA-qualified Distinguished Expert rating for Handgun. Memberships: Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences (Life member), American Civil Liberties Union, American Society of Criminology, National Rifle Association (Benefactor member), National Society of Newspaper Columnists, Outdoor Writers Association of America.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #65 July 25, 2004 Quote He's a conservative, what the fuck do you think. Ya think? So, are you not open to the possibility that maybe he's being just a little misleading in his commentary?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #66 July 25, 2004 QuoteQuote He's a conservative, what the fuck do you think. Ya think? So, are you not open to the possibility that maybe he's being just a little misleading in his commentary? I'm open to the possibility. However, I don't claim something is false just because it is said by a liberal. Are you able to discredit his assertions or not?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #67 July 25, 2004 About as well as you're able to discredit Michael Moore's.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #68 July 25, 2004 QuoteAbout as well as you're able to discredit Michael Moore's. His film has already been discredited. Read the 9/11 commission report. I would guess close to over 90% of his film was discredited from the report. Not that we had to have the commission's report to tell us that. Those of us who aren't a sheep knew it was pure fiction from the word go. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #69 July 25, 2004 Quote His film has already been discredited. Read the 9/11 commission report. I would guess close to over 90% of his film was discredited from the report. You keep saying that as if it's true. It's NOT true. You're just making stuff up. The report doesn't even mention the film. The report does however confirm some of the facts Michale Moore reported in the film. Here's a list. http://michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911facts/quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #70 July 25, 2004 I wish I was making it up. Unfortunately Michael Moron's film was indeed discredited by the report. There's really no debate. The "documentary" is a joke. Everyone but sheep know it. No one with a sane, intelligent mind can sit through that piece of fiction and actually believe more than .001% of it. F911 was his downfall. Before that film people actually took him somewhat serious. He really out-did himself with this though. He brought lying, deceiving and crafty editing to a whole new plateau. Michael Moron is now branded forever as a liar who cannot be trusted. And rightfully so. He dug his own grave. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #71 July 25, 2004 QuoteAbout as well as you're able to discredit Michael Moore's. Fifty nine vs 0 You got nothing. Come on, doesn't George magazine, or the socialist quarterly review defend his movie? He won best film at the Cannes film festival, was it just for making a "powerful film that evokes an emotional response" or is it a documentary that can withstand scrutiny?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #72 July 25, 2004 Quotewas it just for making a "powerful film that evokes an emotional response" or is it a documentary that can withstand scrutiny? Can I answer that or shall we wait for the liberal spin to that question? Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #73 July 25, 2004 If you think you can read minds -- go ahead. The fact is you, nor anyone else, knows why each individual voted for or against it. You ONLY know they did.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #74 July 25, 2004 QuoteI wish I was making it up. Unfortunately Michael Moron's film was indeed discredited by the report. There's really no debate. The "documentary" is a joke. Everyone but sheep know it. No one with a sane, intelligent mind can sit through that piece of fiction and actually believe more than .001% of it. F911 was his downfall. Before that film people actually took him somewhat serious. He really out-did himself with this though. He brought lying, deceiving and crafty editing to a whole new plateau. Michael Moron is now branded forever as a liar who cannot be trusted. And rightfully so. He dug his own grave. Wishful thinking.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #75 July 26, 2004 I think he was talking more along the lines of folks you'd find in this organization: http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/ or here http://www.vnsfvetakerry.com/ I don't know a lot of veterans or active duty folks who like socialists very much - and I know a lot of vets and active duty people. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
