i STILL don't understand why people detest Michael Moore

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Tuna - you're now advocating what we generally refer to as "terrorism" for anyone that doesn't like the status quo.

But that is only because he is an intelligent, logical, level-headed conservative

[PhillyKev 0]

Don't forget never wrong and nothing he says is open for debate. Especially when finished with the ubiquitous "PERIOD."

[turtlespeed 221]

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Don't forget never wrong and nothing he says is open for debate. Especially when finished with the ubiquitous "PERIOD."

Michael Moore is on the RAG?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,453]

Ummm -- turtle dear? Go read who that particular post is really referring to.

Wendy W.
edited because I wasn't clear -- the post referred to Tuna

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 221]

No.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

I'm sick of you Turtle.......

TUCK FEXANS!!!!!!

[wmw999 2,453]

I edited my post - it was unclear.
The post you were picking up on didn't refer to MM. You can take it and hijack it to MM, but it wasn't there to begin with.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[freeflybella 0]

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So, how many times would you like to see people getting injured and commentary taken out of context to suggest how insensitive we are.

If that's someone's perspective - I don't care if they make a movie about it. If enough people are concerned, it might get looked into. If allegations or exaggerations are disproven, it goes away. If allegations or exaggerations are proven - something should be done.

Where's the harm? (Besides my mom getting all freaked out)

If one movie has the power to shift our thinking from one side of an issue to the other - it just shows how unconfident we are in our news/information sources.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Jimbo 0]

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If one movie has the power to shift our thinking from one side of an issue to the other - it just shows how unconfident we are in our news/information sources.

Or it shows just how dumb some people can really be. I don't see F9/11 as a movie that's going to really change any thinking man's mind, no matter what side of the political fence he calls home. What do I see however is a movie that probably will (and has) changed the minds of those too lazy to go out and read, absorb, and understand current world events. I see it as a movie that will motivate those too stupid or lazy to have an opinion of their own, those who want their news and opinions to be spoon fed to them.

From what I understand (I haven't seen it) it's a movie that plays heavily on emotion. That's sort of thing usually doesn't last. I see it as a movie that will have little effect if it's gone from the theatres by November.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[tunaplanet 0]

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I don't see F9/11 as a movie that's going to really change any thinking man's mind

Actually, I sort of disagree. Have you seen the people in line to see that movie? Everytime I walked past it I've seen the same thing...young punks, hair dyed every color imaginable and enough metal on their face to open a jewelry store.

Not exactly the brightest people in the world. Talk about no grain in the silo.

However, you did say, thinking man's mind. Maybe you are right afterall.

Forty-two

[turtlespeed 221]

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I edited my post - it was unclear.
The post you were picking up on didn't refer to MM. You can take it and hijack it to MM, but it wasn't there to begin with.

Wendy W.

Yes, dear Wendy, I know. But thhe subject is about MM - so technically - it wasn't a highjack!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 4]

Uh, your prejudice is showing.

Just because someone dresses or grooms themselves differently than you doesn't mean they aren't intelligent and stupidity comes in all shapes, colors and sizes.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[tunaplanet 0]

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Uh, your prejudice is showing.

Not prejudice. It's called playing the odds. I bought 2 lottery tickets to Wednesday's lottery. I can state to you all I probably won't win. Do I have a chance of winning? Of course. Will I? Almost definitely not.

It's called making educated guesses. Are there a few smart people that dress like that? Of course. Are there a lot? Most definitely not.

Educated guesses.

Forty-two

[Jimbo 0]

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Actually, I sort of disagree. Have you seen the people in line to see that movie? Everytime I walked past it I've seen the same thing...young punks, hair dyed every color imaginable and enough metal on their face to open a jewelry store.

Not exactly the brightest people in the world. Talk about no grain in the silo.

However, you did say, thinking man's mind. Maybe you are right afterall.

I wonder what they about you?

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Just because someone dresses or grooms themselves differently than you doesn't mean they aren't intelligent and stupidity comes in all shapes, colors and sizes.

Yeah, no kidding.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhillyKev 0]

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I bought 2 lottery tickets to Wednesday's lottery.

That says it all.

[sundevil777 102]

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If that's someone's perspective - I don't care if they make a movie about it. If enough people are concerned, it might get looked into. If allegations or exaggerations are disproven, it goes away. If allegations or exaggerations are proven - something should be done.

Where's the harm? (Besides my mom getting all freaked out)

The harm might be an extra set of regulatory burdens placed on skydiving because of the public outcry about the dangerous sport that lets human bombs fall all around unsuspecting citizens-miles away from the airport.

Got to protect the public!...would be the call for new laws.

That is the potential harm.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kelpdiver 2]

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It's called making educated guesses. Are there a few smart people that dress like that? Of course. Are there a lot? Most definitely not.

Do you get out of Florida much?

There are no shortage of multicolored metal headed freaks making 6 figure incomes on this coast. The boom years blew away conventional dress codes and no one has really clamored to go back. As a result, people don't feel the pressure to look like everyone else, and the rest of us are essentially nonplussed by what they do in the fashion realm.

As long as they deliver.

I do think the movie is most effective on the politically ignorant. Liberal Democrats don't need convincing, staunch Republicans wouldn't believe if it they watch Bush run over a puppy, and the better educated independents will know that some intellectual liberties are being taken.

$100M in gross revenues guarantees that Moore will be able to make any wacko movie claims he wants for the rest of his life. Just like George Lucas! Like him or not, he's going to be around as long as his health permits.

[sundevil777 102]

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some intellectual liberties are being taken.

Some intellectual liberties! That is an understatement.

Like when Charles Berlitz said that authors are allowed some 'poetic license' when interviewed about the Devil's Triangle and Chariots of the gods.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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If MM had a personal problem with skydiving, who here would want him to do a "Documentary" on it?

I would.

And, I'd watch it. I'm not an ostrich - I like to be informed. And I recognize that - just because MM might exaggerate and portray the worst aspects of the sport to make his point or to get people to wake and take notice - there are ways to address the 'real' issues that may (or may not) come to light.

Just because I love the sport of skydiving doesn't mean it's above question. Nothing is.

Unless Michael Moore put footnotes into his "documentary" on skydiving, how would you know, with confidence, which parts to believe and which parts to think he twisted, distorted, or lied about? I'm talking if you were watching it as someone who is not "in the know" about skydiving.

Because to hear his apologists tell it, MM's documentaries are "taken with a grain of salt" even by his fans. In fact, to hear his apologists tell it, EVERYONE knows that MM puts a slant on his work, but everyone also knows that they are to keep in mind where this movie is coming from, who made it, and what his tendencies are, i.e. watch it, but don't go believing it as gospel. THEN WHAT GOOD IS IT?!

If an audience is full of non-experts on a subject, they are counting on someone who has done research and who IS an expert to INFORM them. They are NOT [I]CAPABLE[/I] OF determining, through the filter of their own knowledge and expertise, which parts are accurately represented and which parts are disingenuous. So they either are skeptical about it all or they believe it all. There really is no room for gray area. What purpose would it serve if I, knowing nothing about quantum physics, went to a "newbie seminar" about it and the guy doing the seminar was apt to fill it with SOME stuff that's true, and SOME stuff that he made up himself and which is not true? By the very fact that I am a newbie, I don't HAVE the knowledge I need to counter the bullshit. That's the whole point. If people are counting on MM to tell them stuff they don't know, how can they at the same time be able to tell what is false? They would have to know stuff they didn't know in order to detect a lie!

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[tunaplanet 0]

There's no convincing them, bro. We all know if Michael Moron did a documentary on skydiving everyone would be up in arms because we all know the film would be twisted and show our beloved sport in the worst possible light. It's what he does.

Forty-two

[kelpdiver 2]

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If an audience is full of non-experts on a subject, they are counting on someone who has done research and who IS an expert to INFORM them. They are NOT [I]CAPABLE[/I] OF determining, through the filter of their own knowledge and expertise, which parts are accurately represented and which parts are disingenuous.

It is not the responsibility of the filmmaker to present all sides of an issue. He is working his butt to present his side. Even when writing a non fiction paper, you present an argument and make it. If you watched 3 hours of - "but on the other hand..." you'd leave wondering what was the point of the last 3 hours of your life. Rambling pointless video does not make a good movie.

If Bush wants to commission someone to show all the great moments of his Administration in the fight against Bin Laden, he can certainly do so. Sad to say, though, positive documentaries are rarely as well attended.

[sundevil777 102]

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It is not the responsibility of the filmmaker to present all sides of an issue.

It is the responsibility of a documentary filmmaker to be truthful and not intentionally deceitful.

Do you agree?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Zennie 0]

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If MM had a personal problem with skydiving, who here would want him to do a "Documentary" on it?

Hehehe... touche.

I'd also run if 60 Minutes showed up.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[quade 4]

If anyone just "shows up" you're already screwed.

They usually do a lot of homework before conducting or resorting to an ambush interview. The ambush interview as used by 60 Minutes is ONLY a last resort. In other words, they tried to be nice, they called and asked for an interview, you said no, but you're such a scumbag they aren't going to just drop the story because of that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[PhillyKev 0]

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It is the responsibility of a documentary filmmaker to be truthful and not intentionally deceitful.

Do you agree?

No, a documentary is a film based on, related to, or consisting of documentary evidence. F911 meets that criteria. It is the viewers responsibility to not blindly believe what they see at the movie theater. And for the record, has Moore ever called this movie a documentary or advertised it as such? I'm not sure, but I don't recally that being the case. He was given an award for it that called it a documentary and everyone's been calling it that ever since.