Darius11 12 #1 July 26, 2004 The making of a suicide bomber By Edna Yaghi* The only way to stop the suicide bombings is to halt the campaign of injustice against the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine. Whenever any occupation uses force and brutality and disregards the sanctity of life, such tactics will backfire against those responsible for suppressing the people. The backlash of this oppression has struck the heart of Israel. The recent spate of suicide bombings within the state of Israel would very likely not have occurred if the Israeli government did not pursue a policy of indiscriminate killings of Palestinians civilians. No one can say that two wrongs make a right. But those who care to judge the suicide bombers are not under siege, do not have their cities cut off from each other, are not attacked by helicopters, tanks, warships and ground-to-ground missiles. From a safe distance where terror does not break out in the middle of the night or at any moment during the day, it is easy to condemn those who blow themselves to pieces. What makes a suicide bomber? A few days ago, during a funeral procession in the occupied territories, Israeli forces shot at mourners who were walking to bury their dead. A 12-year-old boy was hit and killed and at least 11 others were injured. The participants of the funeral procession were not demonstrating, were not throwing stones, were minding their own sorrowful business, yet they came under attack. It is unfortunate that Israeli civilians become the victims of the people their government is trying to exterminate. But it must be expected that no people will continue to be subjected to inhuman treatment without fighting back. History is our best teacher and throughout the course of human life on earth, man has always fought back against the injustice of his fellow man. William Wallace died for the principals he believed in and to free the Scots from the suppression and cruelty of the British. His courage became a symbol that led the Scottish people to fight for their freedom at a time when they had been robbed of their inalienable rights as human beings. No one remembers Wallace as a terrorist. No one blames the Scots for fighting for their freedom. Early Americans fought for their freedom and independence from the British colonists. No one called George Washington a terrorist. Today, Americans revere the brave people who fought and died on American battlefields so that all Americans could have liberty. Later, the American Indians rose up against the barbarous oppression of the American settlers. Nearly 90% of the Indian population was wiped out by either massacres or the diseases that the settlers spread. It was only when it was too late that the remnants of Indian tribes united in one last brave battle so that they could remain on the land that they loved. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon knows that he can get away with the murder of the Palestinian people. He knows that he can cut off their cities, their villages, that he can dig medieval trenches to separate Palestinians from one another and from the world at large. He knows that he can destroy their farmland, uproot their trees and bulldoze their homes while the world watches uncaringly. He knows that his soldiers can shoot little Palestinian children on the way home from school and he knows that when an infant throws a stone at a heavily armed soldier, the retaliation will be either the death of the stone thrower or his permanent injury. He knows that he can send Israeli mortars into the offices and headquarters of the Palestinian National Authority and that he can assassinate any Palestinian he wishes to without a reason. He knows he can get away with murder because he does not fear impotent Arab leaders and because America turns a blind eye to whatever atrocities he commits. The reasons he gives for his "excessive use of force", for his crimes against humanity, for the cruel suppression of the Palestinians is that he is quelling the violence when he knows very well that this is not it at all. He is the master exterminator. He pretends to be killing off Palestinians for the security of Israel when, in fact, he is the one who, by his brutal practices, has endangered Israelis citizens more than ever before. Violence begets violence. War begins in the minds of men so it is here that peace must also begin. There will always be suicide bombers as long as Palestinians are so cruelly treated and ruthlessly butchered. There will always be suicide bombers as long as there is no justice and as long as the Palestinians become more and more impoverished and have less and less hope for their future. The Holocaust is no longer Jewish, it is Palestinian. Here you have the makings of a suicide bomber. And remember, every Palestinian under the occupation has no hope for tomorrow and every Palestinian has become a potential suicide bomber. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Edna Yaghi is an American freelance writer specializing in social and political affairs in the Middle East.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #2 July 26, 2004 you know, at first i thought of replying like i usually do when we have a difference of opinions, but this time all i can think is, what's the point? this narrow minded propoganda (and if you'll insist, we can go over it word by word...) , is nothing but a hate post of the lowest kind. i don't think i'll go to this low level of name calling, but if anyone is actually convinced by this (creative) crap, let me know. QuoteViolence begets violence. thats right, and it goes also for verbal violence O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #3 July 26, 2004 Sorry Ori I didn't know I insulted you or used "verbal violence". If I did I am sorry. I like this article for many reasons. The most important is this. I feel it gives a better explanation as why someone would have so much hate that they would kill them self’s. I think it is a much better explanation then Muslims are crazy. Now if you feel it is all BS you’re entitled to your opinion. I don’t make “HATE POSTS” if you don’t like the information in a post or it does not follow your beliefs that does not make it a hate postI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #4 July 26, 2004 Being a suicide bomber is an evil thing -- this article is not trying to say otherwise. But if you remove all of someone's hope, they don't feel as though they have anything to lose, no matter what they do. It's about hopelessness, and how it can lead to hate and drastic and tragic action. There are victims on both sides, and it's sad for both sides. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #5 July 26, 2004 it doesn't take a genious to know that the palestinians are not having a great time and that it motivates terrorists. there is a huge difference between posting facts that will describe a situation and describing things as nazi camps, butchering, mass murderers and just shooting people for fun. this is an opinion which is written as a report. the factual base of this is weak and you know very well that there are no masacares, no butchering and no extermination. even the basic concept of people defending themselves against occupation is wrong. there was terror before israel existed, and there was a LOT of terror when there was no israeli force anywhere near palestinian towns (1996-2000). the "Wave of terror" was started in 2000 after arafat refused to accept anything less than everything, and as far as i remember, you kwow that fact also. again i say, palestinians do suffer, and it does motivate terror, i have no problem with this idea. but describing it as "poor farmers armed with rocks defending themselves against a nazi extermination brigades" is outragous. and yes, i consider implying that israel is exterminating/butchering/etc palestinians a hate post. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #6 July 26, 2004 QuoteBeing a suicide bomber is an evil thing -- this article is not trying to say otherwise. But if you remove all of someone's hope, they don't feel as though they have anything to lose, no matter what they do. It's about hopelessness, and how it can lead to hate and drastic and tragic action. There are victims on both sides, and it's sad for both sides. Wendy W. So removing an evil dictator and showing the arab world there is hope for freedom from oppression is a good thing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #7 July 26, 2004 It's a different perspective. Obviously, suicide bombers don't think what they are doing is wrong. The people who chant for and support the suicide bombers don't think what they are doing is wrong. Why? That article explains why. Whether or not you believe it to be factual, it is what those whe commit those acts believe. You can try to understand why they feel that way, or not care and try to kill them all (thereby creating more of them). I'm not at all advocating what they do. But there's obviiously reasons they become who they are. While we try and stop those that already feel that way it would be a good idea to try and see if there are things that we can do differently so that every terrorist we kill isn't replaced by two new ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #8 July 26, 2004 Let me ask you one simple question. Quote"poor farmers armed with rocks defending themselves against a nazi extermination brigades" is outrageous. I have seen much footage of Palestinians throwing rocks and the Israelis shooting guns at a crowd. Are you seriously denying that has happened more then a few of times?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #9 July 26, 2004 QuoteYou can try to understand why they feel that way, or not care and try to kill them all (thereby creating more of them). again, i'll repeat. i understand that poor conditions create more terrorists, its not a mystery. but how would you stop the man carrying the explosives when he stands in line with 10 other non terrorists? how will you shoot the guy pointing a rifle at you (and i'm sorry to burst a bubble, but its not rocks anymore) if he hides inside a building? how would you avoid stopping ambulances when they are used to transport explosive? but this is not the issue here, the issue is the statements about nazi camps, extermination, mass murder, etc. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #10 July 26, 2004 QuoteI have seen much footage of Palestinians throwing rocks and the Israelis shooting guns at a crowd. Are you seriously denying that has happened more then a few of times? no, it happens. do you need me to throw a brick on your head to show you that it can kill you? and to your question, most of the time what you see is tear gas or rubber bullets. not to mention that the media really likes the "look at the poor kid with a rock against that big scary tank", what can i say, it sells. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #11 July 26, 2004 QuoteQuoteI have seen much footage of Palestinians throwing rocks and the Israelis shooting guns at a crowd. Are you seriously denying that has happened more then a few of times? no, it happens. do you need me to throw a brick on your head to show you that it can kill you? and to your question, most of the time what you see is tear gas or rubber bullets. not to mention that the media really likes the "look at the poor kid with a rock against that big scary tank", what can i say, it sells. Rest assure that when you state the obvious, people who understand it, understood it before you said it and people who still claim to be confused are either lying or just plain stupid. I was particularly left wondering if anybody could possibly be so clueless as to not see the difference between George Washington and a suicide bomber.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #12 July 26, 2004 QuoteSo removing an evil dictator and showing the arab world there is hope for freedom from oppression is a good thing So far many Iraqis haven't seen a whole lot of benefit from this freedom from oppression. There is less order than there was before for many. Less oppression, but less order, too. And people who have friends or relatives who have been killed or seriously hurt (or children who were hurt at all) in the conflict, it will take a lot more convincing. There are a number of people in the former Soviet Union who would rather return to the order of the previous government, too. Some things sucked, but not everything, and there was less random violence. Random violence on that scale is nothing like small-town or even most big-city US. It's a whole different thing. Really. Haven't been there, but I know a number of people who have. Your family becomes far more important than the government at large, and protecting them in an immediate sense is more important than the long term. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #13 July 27, 2004 QuoteBut if you remove all of someone's hope, Arafat and the PA leadership have done that, not Israel.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #14 July 27, 2004 That article is bullshit. QuoteCampaign of injustice? Policy of indiscriminate killings? BullshitPeople are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #15 July 27, 2004 QuoteArafat and the PA leadership have done that, not Israel. Israel is the biggest badass; much more firepower than the Palestinians. There seeem to be a lot of people (seemingly some who post on this board) who think that might makes right (after all, the US is the most powerful and richest country, so what we want is right). So Arafat has only done that in the context of their being subordinate to Israel. Whether he's good or bad is moot (he is also of the might-makes-right variety). But as far as I can tell, Israel is most interested in their safety and freedom; that of the Palestinians is secondary, and can be traded for Israeli safety. Not that Israeli safety is wrong -- it's not. But it's not inherently more valuable than Palestinian safety. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #16 July 27, 2004 QuoteBut as far as I can tell, Israel is most interested in their safety and freedom; that of the Palestinians is secondary, and can be traded for Israeli safety. Not that Israeli safety is wrong -- it's not. But it's not inherently more valuable than Palestinian safety. It is to the Israelis. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #17 July 27, 2004 And not everyone is an Israeli. Suicide bombing is wrong. But I doubt that Israelis' safety is more important to the average Palestinian than their own. It's an extremely sad situation -- as soon as someone tries to do the right thing, they're called weak and preyed upon, so it escalates to more violence, more hurt, more hate. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #18 July 27, 2004 Which side refused to live with the UN creation of Israel? Which side vowed to destroy Israel? (and tried to carry out that threat with war) Which side told Arabs to leave or risk being attacked as they attacked Israel? (It was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem) QuoteSo Arafat has only done that in the context of their being subordinate to Israel. So it is done in that "context". What does that mean? He has no responsibility for leading his people toward attempted genocide because Israel is stronger? Is Israel automatically at fault because they are stronger. Many would be happier if the USA was not the only superpower. I suspect you are one of these. Arafat doesn't hide his desire to kill all Jews when speaking to his people. Time to pick a side.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #19 July 27, 2004 QuoteIt's an extremely sad situation -- as soon as someone tries to do the right thing, they're called weak and preyed upon, so it escalates to more violence, more hurt, more hate. PLEASE, tell me when the palestinians tried to do the right thing. edit - QuoteWhether he's good or bad is moot I certainly don't think it is moot! That is quite a revealing statement of your philosophy/politics. I hope you didn't really mean it.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #20 July 27, 2004 QuotePLEASE, tell me when the palestinians tried to do the right thing. From your point of view or theirs? That's the point. You take the side that Israel is in the right so what they do is right. They take the side that what they are doing is in the right, so what they do is right, to them. No one here is defending the actions of the palestinian bombers. There's a difference between understanding why or condoning their methods. If you have a solution for the problem, you'll probably win the nobel prize. If you don't, it would be advisable to understand the motives of the other side. It will help you to either come to an agreement with them, or defeat them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #21 July 27, 2004 QuoteQuotePLEASE, tell me when the palestinians tried to do the right thing. From your point of view or theirs? That's the point. You take the side that Israel is in the right so what they do is right. They take the side that what they are doing is in the right, so what they do is right, to them. So you believe in moral relativism? I think there is no objective truth, or good or evil in such a world. Sounds like liberalism.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #22 July 27, 2004 Yes indeed it is all "affirmative" and selective news spinning by most mulsim media where everything is the fault of Israel. The league of arab nations have not once gave palestinians a hand, Jordan fought the PLO guerrillas and expelled them out of their country, as well as Syria, and Lebanon, but there is no arab outrage against that, nor to the fact that the PLO help destabilize Lebanon while creating a civil war in that nation (thus, more killings between arabs). It is always Israel's fault and any non muslim nation that hints any help to that government. Where is the arab outrage for that, for the jurds and all those killed by their own arab MUSLIM hands? I never seen none."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #23 July 27, 2004 There could never be objective truth. Most want peace but these radical muslims that are poisoning future generations for the long haul."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #24 July 27, 2004 Quoteradical muslims Not so radical really, quite mainstream now, when you see the large groups of ordinary people dancing in the streets, handing out candy after hearing of the Sept 11 attacks.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #25 July 27, 2004 I just wish the entire world would stop shooting at each other, go make a skydive, and sit down and have a beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites