I believe the DRAFT is coming........

[TypicalFish 0]

My take on it, though probably unpopular, is “So what?” The fact of the matter is that our military has been too small for quite awhile, and, short of a draft in times of national need, there is not much that hasn’t been tried to back fill it. One of the harsh realities that the war in Iraq has brought into focus is that we are simply stretched too thin to adequately defend ourselves against multiple attacks in multiple theaters.

We have ONE QUARTER of our Army tied up in the Gulf, and one of the unfortunate secrets inside the 5 rings is that that number is inadequate to occupy a small backwards nation with no effective military of its own. What happens if North Korea decides to roll into South Korea? China moves stronger into Hong Kong? Or, god forbid, all of those former republics of the USSR finally hit on how strong they could be if they were a little more closely aligned with one another?

None of this has ANYTHING to do with Bush or his administration. Should any of the former scenarios come to pass, the NATO playbook calls for a HEAVY U.S. presence; where are those troops going to come from? In my infamous "one vote" view, it would be irresponsible on the part of any administration to not prepare for the worst. And as far as “debate”, the fact of the matter is that a “draft” is not an optional debatable thing by its own very nature, it’s a NECESSITY. An unfortunate one, but a necessity nonetheless. There wasn’t much debate about it during WW1, WW2, Korea, or Vietnam either.

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[Zenister 0]

helps if you declare war first dont you think?

our country's leadership has hardly stuck to its strategic planning, sustainment and supply goals for a 'sustained two front war' for the last 16 years. (something that should have been more carefully considered before we engaged in this current conflict, and certainly in the way we have conducted it. We are simply not using the 'best tool for the right task' and instead trying the brute force approach…)

A draft would do little to affect that, there simply isn’t the equipment in place, and warm bodies are useless without proper equipment and training..

if we were really as short handed (as you claim) I'd see alot less soldiers doing yard work and alot more training going on....if you want a larger, better military, give the citizens a reason to join by paying them better, treating their lives and families with more respect, and taking care of the effects war has on them afterwards.. a draft will do little more than provide cannon fodder...

last time i checked, occupying a foreign country really wasn’t the purpose behind US having a strong armed forces in the first place...

the 'necessity' (if it exists) was created by poor planning and execution of the current conflict. If we’d treated terrorism as the military issue it is (vs law enforcement approach we are still engaged in) it was in the first place and leveraged some of our less visible resources when necessary, we wouldn’t have line troops trying to do a job they were never trained for now…

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[TomAiello 26]

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My take on it, though probably unpopular, is “So what?”

Involuntary servitude is wrong. No matter what the justification.

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One of the harsh realities that the war in Iraq has brought into focus is that we are simply stretched too thin to adequately defend ourselves against multiple attacks in multiple theaters.

Dude. I support the war, but that just doesn't sound right. We're not exactly "defending ourselves" in Iraq. It's more a use of military force as a tool of foreign policy. If we were in a genuine military self defense situation (i.e. a foreign power--not a terrorist group--was mobilizing troops against us), I've no doubt public support for the war would get the military all the manpower it needed.

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There wasn’t much debate about it during WW1, WW2, Korea, or Vietnam either.

Um, weren't there a bunch of guys burning draft cards during Vietnam?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[PhreeZone 20]

>if we were really as short handed (as you claim) I'd see alot less soldiers doing yard work and alot more training going on....i

Yeah.. the on base housing at the local AF base here is landscaped nicer then most the homes in the surrounding area. I know that there were 3 weeks straight that ATC and medical trainies were used to rake leafs, plant flowers and edge sidewalks since they were'nt ready for them in the classroom yet.

My brother spent those 3 weeks getting artistic on the flowers since his entire squad was that board. Nice to know our solders know about shrubbery. They even know you must place it here beside this shrubbery, only slightly higher so you get a two-level effect with a little path running down the middle.

But seriously... the time im my opinion would be better spent on a shooting range or doing something to promote battle readyness and contract landscapers.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ERAUSkydiver 0]

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We have ONE QUARTER of our Army tied up in the Gulf, and one of the unfortunate secrets inside the 5 rings is that that number is inadequate to occupy a small backwards nation with no effective military of its own. What happens if North Korea decides to roll into South Korea? China moves stronger into Hong Kong? Or, god forbid, all of those former republics of the USSR finally hit on how strong they could be if they were a little more closely aligned with one another?

If North Korea Invades South Korea: Let them defend their own damn country. Our guys dont need to be there.

If China moves into Hong Kong, it sucks for trade, but it is their land. Our guys don't need to be there.

If former USSR countries realinged they would just be a litte version, yet just as poor version, of the former USSR. Our guys dont need to be there... unless they start stuff with us directly, but I doubt that will ever happen.

[jdhill 0]

No, what I said was an administration cannot impose a draft... it has to be done by a law, which you need the congress for.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[PhillyKev 0]

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If North Korea Invades South Korea: Let them defend their own damn country. Our guys dont need to be there.

If China moves into Hong Kong, it sucks for trade, but it is their land. Our guys don't need to be there.

If former USSR countries realinged they would just be a litte version, yet just as poor version, of the former USSR. Our guys dont need to be there... unless they start stuff with us directly, but I doubt that will ever happen.

So we should just ignore treaties that we've agreed to?

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"If China moves into Hong Kong,"

Huh? I can't imagine why. Since 97 its been under Chinese administration.

"yet just as poor version, of the former USSR."
I'd keep an eye on Russia (look up Sakhalin) and the former FSU (Khazakstan and Azerbaijan in particular), they are about to become major players in the energy market.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Tonto 1]

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So we should just ignore treaties that we've agreed to?

and what does not constitute "torture."

I think if you're going to stay out - then you should stay out. If I were from the US, I'd far prefer people squealing "Do something about Sudan, Zimbabwe, North Korea, Liberia etc, etc (The list will simply NEVER end) than listen to them squeal about all the innocents you're killing in an attempt to save them.

Hobsons choice, I suppose, but that's what you get for winning the Cold War and being the last superpower standing. A giant who's constantly being shat out for swatting the bugs that bug it.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Ron 10]

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I think if you're going to stay out - then you should stay out. If I were from the US, I'd far prefer people squealing "Do something about Sudan, Zimbabwe, North Korea, Liberia etc, etc (The list will simply NEVER end) than listen to them squeal about all the innocents you're killing in an attempt to save them.

It end to agree...I think the US should cut ALL foreign aid and invest in itself.

Build a super strong defense and go back to the days of "Don't tread on me"...

Mess with us and we will crush you...Leave us alone, and we will not meddle in your affairs.

Of course we would then be cursed all over the world for it.

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Hobsons choice, I suppose, but that's what you get for winning the Cold War and being the last superpower standing. A giant who's constantly being shat out for swatting the bugs that bug it.

Maybe the best written comment on these boards ever.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Leave us alone, and we will not meddle in your affairs."

Promise?

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Ron 10]

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"Leave us alone, and we will not meddle in your affairs."

Promise?

As long as you agree to leave us alone, and not beg for any aid.

And understand...You mess with us and we would crush you.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[CrazyIvan 0]

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As long as you agree to leave us alone, and not beg for any aid.

Amen!!

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"And understand...You mess with us and we would crush you."

I'm a peace loving guy, I have no desire to mess with anyone. Besides, only a fool would.....

"As long as you agree to leave us alone, and not beg for any aid. "

This one is a bit trickier, aid is often offered for a number of reasons, and refused for even stranger reasons. Point being, its seldom a one-way street, but "aid trading" (you help out a wee country, and they back you at say the UN security council, allow foreign companies to operate in their borders, buy their weapons from you, provide strategic resource reserves, allow you to over fly their territory en route to those who may have messed with you, allow you to base forces in their countries, etc) is surely acceptable under Ron and Nac's plan for world security and ultimate peace?

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Ron 10]

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This one is a bit trickier, aid is often offered for a number of reasons, and refused for even stranger reasons. Point being, its seldom a one-way street, but "aid trading" (you help out a wee country, and they back you at say the UN security council, allow foreign companies to operate in their borders, buy their weapons from you, provide strategic resource reserves, allow you to over fly their territory en route to those who may have messed with you, allow you to base forces in their countries, etc) is surely acceptable under Ron and Nac's plan for world security and ultimate peace?

I would give aid only to countries that are with us...The US gives aid to countries that are Anti US. That would stop day one.

Debts that are owed to the US would be called. We have BILLIONS owed us that we ignore that debt.

We would get out of the UN.

The for US crowd would get help.
The leave the US alone crowd would be left alone.
The Anti US crowd would be fine till they started something...Then they would be crushed.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[nacmacfeegle 0]

That all looks good to me, but I am sad that you wish to leave the UN.
I still have pretty high hopes for a forum where nations can "jaw jaw, not war war".
I know its not perfect, but there are no other alternatives at the moment.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Tonto 1]

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As long as you agree to leave us alone, and not beg for any aid.

Can I still come to the DZ.com boogie and get tunnel coaching if I pay the going rate?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Ron 10]

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That all looks good to me, but I am sad that you wish to leave the UN.
I still have pretty high hopes for a forum where nations can "jaw jaw, not war war".
I know its not perfect, but there are no other alternatives at the moment.

Well the UN showed it is usless when it came to Iraq...It became a paper tiger.

Plus the UN's "Oil for food" program...Yeah thats a good thing.

Add in that the US is the major UN armed force....

The UN expects a lot from the US and delivers little in any department.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Can I still come to the DZ.com boogie and get tunnel coaching if I pay the going rate?

If your country is on the with or leave the US alone side...If your country was anti US...Nope. You would get stopped at the door.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[nacmacfeegle 0]

The UN gave your boss an excuse to settle a family grudge....
sorry .

Yeah, I did say it was less than perfect, but look at all it could be and tell me thats not worth working at.
Where's the old pioneer 'can do' spirit that you guys are famous for?

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[rickjump1 0]

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Reintroducing the draft is on par with trying to reform Social Security.

A draft with NO EXEMPTIONS, would make our privileged-class politicians think twice before sending their own sons and daughters off to war. In fact these weenies need to experience war themselves.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

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[Tonto 1]

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You would get stopped at the door.

I have a nice smile.
I'll take my chances.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[jazzjumper 0]

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And people who entered delayed entry, like high school students, were called up before their official entry date.

Okay, the military may order a person on delayed enlistment to report earlier, but not if they are still in HS (this breaks a few laws). This isn't saying they won't try and get a kid to drop out (for the Army) and report early. There is a problem enforcing that, since the orders have to come through registered, certified mail. If you accept it, it's like a supeona. The Air Force requires that you have a diploma or a GED (and it must be presented at enlistment.) (AD USAF, 21+ years and counting)

No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is
sick of her shit!

[jdhill 0]

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isn't saying they won't try and get a kid to drop out (for the Army) and report early

That would actually void the enlistees contract... when you sign up as a senior, and you don't graduate, you don't ship... In my several years in recruiting I saw two non-grad slots (out of roughly 1,200 my Company was missioned for) for active duty... and they had to score above 50 on the ASVAB, and be willing to take the worst jobs (and no, thats not infantry or tank driver)... For the most part, Non-Grads only option was the NG, and even that was limited.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Guest]

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> Nice to know our solders know about shrubbery. They even know you must place it here beside this shrubbery, only slightly higher so you get a two-level effect with a little path running down the middle.

But seriously... the time im my opinion would be better spent on a shooting range or doing something to promote battle readyness and contract landscapers.

Aw, c'mon! The Samurai studied flower arranging and calligraphy...



GIs are always a source of cheap labor.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."