TheAnvil 0 #1 August 6, 2004 Well well well. It seems everyone's favorite socialist, John Kerry, is in a bit of an uproar over the upcoming release of UNFIT FOR COMMAND. This is just too funny. The sKerry campaign is just all in a tiff because Swiftboat Veterans for Truth is attacking his Vietnam War record and doing a good job of it. Of course we already knew that the majority of Flipper's former shipmates were against him politically, but what they are saying now is just amazing. Of course, what sKerry himself said - and wrote - upon returning from the war was pretty amazing - and damning - in and of itself too. This is particularly damning for Messrs. sKerry and Edwards because sKerry's record in Vietnam has been the centerpoint of his campaign. Now the vets sKerry denounced as war criminals in front of Congress are having their side of the story told in public and he's none too happy about it. From Boortz this morning: "You will remember that during the 2000 election the Democratic Party sent legions of lawyers to every single election district in Florida with marching orders to see to it that every single vote cast by a member of our armed forces serving overseas be disqualified. Such is the love of the Democrats for the U.S. military. The Democrats have rallied the lawyers again, and once again their targets are military; this time Vietnam veterans. Lawyers for the Democratic Party and the Kerry/Edwards campaign are sending letters to television stations threatening them with legal action if they run the ad from the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. What's the matter, boys? Can dish it out, but you can't take it? Yesterday on The Neal Boortz Show we interviewed Dr. Louis Letson. Dr. Letson was the physician who treated John Kerry for the superficial wound that led to Kerry's first Purple Heart. In the letter to television stations the Democratic lawyers have a few things to say about Dr. Letson and that particular incident. Paragraph 4 of the letter reads: "Further, the 'doctor' who appears in the ad, Louis Letson, was not a crewmate of Senator Kerry's and was not the doctor who actually signed Senator Kerry's sick call sheet. In fact, another physician signed actually signed Senator Kerry's sick call sheet." Later in that threatening letter to television station managers the Democrat lawyers even charge that Letson is a "phony" doctor. This tactic seems to be working. Even Brit Hume of Fox News Channel was questioning last night if Letson is actually a doctor. We covered this with Letson yesterday on the air. Louis Letson confirmed that he was, indeed, a doctor, and was the only physician serving in that particular region of Vietnam. Letson told us that it was his practice to have one of his assistants sign all of the records for treatment received at the dispensary. Further, Letson said that the person who signed Kerry's treatment record was NOT, as the Democrat's letter states, a physician, but was in effect a medic. In the letter the Democrat lawyers also seem to be quite upset that the Vietnam Veterans for Truth are being financed by a Houston homebuilder. Imagine that! What about those ads the Democrats have been running under the umbrella of those "527" organizations? What about Moveon.org? How are the ads being run by these organizations different from the ads being run by the swift boat veterans? Those ads, you see, are financed by a wealthy international financier named George Soros. Democrats have no problem with having a foreign-born international money man financing their ads slamming George Bush, but let a Texan, a Houston homebuilder, finance ads against John Kerry and it's the end of the world! This morning I saw Jim Rassman on television. Rassman is the man whom Kerry pulled out of the river. Rassman has been called forth by the Democrats to say that this Swift Boat Veterans for Truth advertising campaign is not very nice. Rassman said that "It's very dishonest at this stage of the game, 35 years after the fact, to call this into question. This is an example of the lowest form of politics." Funny ... do you remember any Kerry supporters coming forth to say that very thing about Bush's National Guard service? That, too, was 35 years ago. The difference, of course, is that George Bush is not running on the record of his years in the National Guard. He's running on his years as Commander in Chief of the United States armed forces, and nobody has even whispered a suggestion that he strayed from that post. Kerry? All he has is Vietnam? He's been focusing on those four months since he announced his candidacy. OK .. so he wanted to make those four months his primary qualification for the presidency. Fine. The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are happy to rise to the challenge." Vinny the Anvil Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 August 6, 2004 Did you happen to watch Fox News last night? They covered this topic perfectly and explained why its not the best idea in the world for the Bush campaign to touch this topic. I'll look for transcripts, but I thought that Clinton's campaign manager explained it perfectly. Why not attack Kerry for things that he did in the Senate rather then for something that happened 35 years ago and how no effect on modern politics? He's had his share of screw ups in the Senate, use those. Using the Vietnam issue can backfire since it now opens those Swiftboat crews up to political screunity. If one of them has too many ghosts in their closet of has something questionable in their service record then the entire thing can fall apart. I did think its strange that not one of the people in the ad was on his boat, they were other captians... but not part of his crew. If you were to ask me if my peers at work were unfit for a leadership role I'd say yes, but if you asked me if my boss was unfit for a leadership role I'd say no since I've actually seen him in a role like that and see what he does. Here is a link to the site that has the Swiftboat Captian's ad. http://www.swiftvets.comYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #3 August 6, 2004 The Bush campaign isn't doing this - SwiftBoatVetsForTruth is. I didn't watch FoxNews at all last night - I was cooking and reading. I think every member of SwiftboatVetsForTruth knew prior to embarking on this venture that every facet of their lives would be opened up and researched for smear purposes. I'm not sure it's all that bad of an idea. sKerry has touted his Vietnam service and made it a fairly large part of his campaign. His supporters have raked GWB's guard service over the coals and picked through his 30+ year old military records with a fine-toothed comb looking for dirt while chortling about their standard bearer being a decorated vet. Other than sKerry's Vietnam service he doesn't have a lot to run on. His voting record in the Senate - no way; he's trying to avoid being branded a hard-left liberal and his voting record shows him to be just that. Legisltation he sponsored in the Senate and got passed - yeah, right. His attendance at committee meetings as a Senator and his input there - gimme a break. Other than his platform, consisting of a hodge podge of special interest mantras quilted together, he doesn't have a lot other than his record. Because of that, the SwiftVets' campaign seems like a tit for tat retaliation for raking GWB's national guard record over the coals. The response of the left has been quite humorous. Beers to all, Vinny the Anvil Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #4 August 6, 2004 Peer evaluations are not an uncommon thing in the military... hell, you can get kicked out of Ranger school if your peers think you suck at being a leader. I would think other boat Captains, since they are trained leaders, are in a position to evaluate his leadership, from their perspective... of course his (Kerry's) commander would be the in the best position to evaluate it, since that was part of his job... I think there is some logic in the stance that this should not be an issue, since it was 35 years ago. And, like the talking head mentioned, he's got plenty in his more recent Senate record to discuss. But, it is Kerry who is using his war record, from 35 years ago, to say he would be a good commander in cheif... so who made it fair game? If Bush can keep an arms length between him and the swiftboat vets statements, he has plausible deniability if the argument begins to crumble. To me, the issue of either of their service records does not matter that much... it is what they have done since then, and more recently... there are plenty of issues to debate for both of them there. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #5 August 6, 2004 I fail to understand why it is important at all - I hope americans aren't voting based on whether or not someone served in the military exclusively and/or whether that service was 'honorable' or whatever you want to argue it is or is not. I would hope americans are going to vote based on their judgement of the candidates and whether they can run the country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 August 6, 2004 QuoteI didn't watch FoxNews at all last night Then how did you know what Brit Hume was talking about? Has the Kerry campaign actually spent one dollar of its money looking into Bush's past or was it all done through seperate groups like this SwiftVets group is doing? What I don't get is if they had these objections why did they not raise them before like when he was running for the senate? When he was speaking at the DNC in the 90's, hell, why not protest his purple hearts at the time? If it was'nt worth their time then, why should it be worth our time 35 years later? QuoteThe response of the left has been quite humorous. Its not the left, its the responce of individuals. There is a difference between a group and individuals.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #7 August 6, 2004 Read about it this morning. What was Brit saying? I think the reason it's coming up now is that sKerry has made his Vietnam service one of the focal points of his campaign. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #8 August 6, 2004 For the record I think asking about GWB's NG service is stupid and a waste of time too. It sucks I can't find a transcript of FN last night. It was one of the few times that I agreed with everything that was said from both sides. It looksl ike they are typically 2 days behind to transcribe them so maybe Monday Here is something quasi related that I picked up on FoxNews.com: New Kerry Book Author Was Political After All The No. 1 book on Amazon.com right now is "Unfit to Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," but the author may not be telling us everything about himself. It was only last April that John E. O'Neill, then just a Houston attorney critical of John Kerry, told C-SPAN that he was not a political person. He didn't mention that in just four months he'd be releasing a book called "Unfit to Command" about Kerry's war experiences. The book, published by Washington-based Regnery, has zoomed to the top of the bestseller list in the last few days. On C-SPAN, O'Neill stated toward the end of his half-hour interview: "I have not been involved in any way in politics for many, many years and I've had no interest in being involved in politics for many, many years." Alas, that's not completely true. Even though O'Neill has not given money to the campaign of the current President Bush, he did donate $1,000 to George Herbert Walker Bush's campaign in 1992. A year later he gave $2,500 to the Texas Republican Congressional Committee, and he did the same in 1994. O'Neill has also given to several individual Republican candidates including Peter Wareing, who twice ran for local office in Houston and lost. Calls to O'Neill and his publisher were not returned. As an author, O'Neill will not be new to the media circuit. In 1971 Kerry and O'Neill debated the Vietnam War on the old Dick Cavett show. O'Neill was then a law clerk for Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist. He is now a partner in the Houston law firm Clements, O'Neill, Pierce, Wilson, and Wulkerson with former Enron lawyer and former George W. Bush president counsel Margaret A. Wilson.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #9 August 6, 2004 QuoteRead about it this morning. What was Brit saying? I think the reason it's coming up now is that sKerry has made his Vietnam service one of the focal points of his campaign. Yes - and have you ever met someone that "MAY" be qualified for one job - but everyone knows that that person shouldn't be the BOSS? That pretty well describes sKerry. I like my freedoms where they are.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #10 August 6, 2004 I haven't heard Kerry complaining about it nearly as much as I've heard McCain. "Dishonest and dishonorable", said Senator John McCain - referring to the ad. http://news.google.com/news?q=mccain&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nn Now THERE'S a man with integrity. You could learn something from him. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #11 August 6, 2004 QuoteI haven't heard Kerry complaining about it nearly as much as I've heard McCain. "Dishonest and dishonorable", said Senator John McCain - refering to the ad. http://news.google.com/news?q=mccain&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nn Now THERE'S a man with integrity. You could learn something from him. _Am Uh huh. (wrong smiley before)I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #12 August 6, 2004 I'm sure I could in some regards. He has my all-time favorite line from politics regarding the longest place he ever lived - Hanoi. Have to read his remarks, but I think given all the attacks on GWB's guard service by Kerry supporters, this is a case of what goes around comes around. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #13 August 6, 2004 QuoteI fail to understand why it is important at all I don't think its important...However, in politics its about how much dirt you can throw. The Dems (Or Dem groups) went through W's service record with a fine tooth comb. It's only fair that Rep's (Or Rep groups) get to do the same. The Dems don't see it that way and so while they approved it when Moore tried to slam Bush...And they claimed that Bush was trying to hide stuff. But then they try and discredit anyone that has dirt on their canidate... A serious double standard. Also, it can say a bunch about a guy when he wraps himself in the flag claiming to be a hero...But back then when it was popular came back and called all other heros baby killers and war criminals. So since Kerry brought up him being a hero...And plays it for all he is worth...Well that makes it fair game for counter attacks. I think there is a basis for the swift boat groups claims. QuoteI would hope americans are going to vote based on their judgement of the candidates and whether they can run the country. Notice almost NONE of Kerrys ads are about his history? It's becasue it sucks...He has one of the most liberal voting records...His choices were bad, and he is hiding from them. Kerry is running his campain on him being a war hero with a vision for the future...He avoids bringing any of his past up EXCEPT the "Hero" part...When was the last time you heard him talking about his anti-war efforts? Simple he is banking on being a hero with a vision. Vision is hard to prove wrong (although some will say that his past voting record does not jive with what he says he will do)...But the hero part can be disproved. Still anyone that votes for either canidate based on 35 year old issues is stupid...I am not the same guy I was 10 years ago.... But Kerry's voting record is the reason he will not get my vote. The fact that his campain promisses don't match his voting history is a cause of concern for me."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 August 6, 2004 QuoteStill anyone that votes for either canidate based on 35 year old issues is stupid...I am not the same guy I was 10 years ago.... But Kerry's voting record is the reason he will not get my vote. The fact that his campain promisses don't match his voting history is a cause of concern for me. On of the most intelligent things I've heard all day. I doubt anyone will read that and change their vote, they'll just cover their eyes and hope its not true.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 August 6, 2004 QuoteOn of the most intelligent things I've heard all day. I doubt anyone will read that and change their vote, they'll just cover their eyes and hope its not true. I'm voting based on previous voting records and actions taken. I could give a shit less about promises, I want to see what have they really done.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 August 6, 2004 QuoteI'm voting based on previous voting records and actions taken. I could give a shit less about promises, I want to see what have they really done. How many people actually *know* about the voting records and how many people only listen to one news source to make up their mind? I do have to agree with Ron, though, if the voting record and the promises made aren't lining up...something is wrong.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #17 August 6, 2004 Oooh, its getting interesting, and fun for partisans.. In the red corner we have F911, in the blue corner we have Unfit for Command. Seconds out, round One......-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #18 August 6, 2004 QuoteUh huh. Are you saying McCain does not have intergity? I personally admire the hell out of him and would vote for him in a heartbeat.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #19 August 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteUh huh. Are you saying McCain does not have intergity? I personally admire the hell out of him and would vote for him in a heartbeat. Oops - Damn i hit the wrong smiley - he was supposed to have a pair of sunglasses on - I wouldn't advocate for him to be pres. but I agree he has integrity. I respect him. I edited the post above.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #20 August 6, 2004 QuoteAre you saying McCain does not have intergity? I personally admire the hell out of him and would vote for him in a heartbeat. I like McCain...but he has a few ideas I'd have to look into more before I could blanket say I would be voting for him... A guy can have all kinds of honor..And have really bad ideas."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #21 August 6, 2004 Quotebut he has a few ideas I'd have to look into more before I could blanket say I would be voting for him... I'll put it this way, on the issues I was most concerned about in 2000, he matched up on them more then anyone and I was disappointed when he lost the primary.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #22 August 6, 2004 > The sKerry campaign is just all in a tiff because Swiftboat Veterans for >Truth is attacking his Vietnam War record and doing a good job of it. About as good a job ad Moore did attacking Bush, although I suspect we won't see the amount of shrill outrage from the left over this book as we heard over Moore's portrayal of what Bush has done over the last few years. Both groups (SBVFT and Moore) have clear political agendas, and both are going to do everything they can to get "their guy" elected. Nothing new in either case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #23 August 6, 2004 I heard a blurb on the radio this morning that couple of the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth were recanting their statements, said they were coercced into saying what they did, and regret the statements that they made and the out of context way they are being presented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #24 August 6, 2004 Quotelthough I suspect we won't see the amount of shrill outrage from the left over this book as we heard over Moore's portrayal of what Bush has done over the last few years. Actually, I'm expecting more then from Moore's piece of bullshit.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #25 August 6, 2004 Ad/Book vs. documentary [sic]. Equivalent? I think not. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
