Why politicians should not be in charge of the CIA.

[quade 4]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5675992/site/newsweek/

This isn't a good sign.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

What was that quote I read about all this "Intelligence" reform
bru-ha-ha?

Ah, yes.

"Changing the DCI is like prescribing Rogaine for a chemotherapy patient. Sure, they might be losing their hair, but it hardly addresses the cause of the problem."

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[tkhayes 348]

maybe the subject should read " Why Republicans should not be in charge of the CIA" might be more appropriate - afterall, what do you propose - that we privatize the CIA?

[Kennedy 0]

Most bureaucrats are not politicians. The title is very clear. He thinks the article illustrates why elected officials shouldn't be the DCI.

And are you still suffering the dillusion that the democrats are any different than the republicans?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[tkhayes 348]

sadly no, I am not suffering from that delusion, but i am seeing a republican party that seems to be willing to take away many of our freedoms in the name of preserving our freedoms.

I do not remember Clinton or Carter doing that. Maybe your handgun is next, no?

TK

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

And are you still suffering the dillusion that the democrats are any different than the republicans?

You are 100% correct on that.

It surprises me that so many so-called Republicans give knee jerk support to this administration's trampling on civil rights just because GWB is a Republican.

Don't trust politicians!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

This isn't a good sign.

I agree wholeheartedly. Are we moving towards a place where the results of an arrest justify it? It seems we are.

I never planned to vote for Bush. Still, the more of this I hear, the more I may be willing to vote for Kerry instead of Libertarian...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

I do not remember Clinton or Carter doing that.

Poor memory, or were you not paying attention?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[tkhayes 348]

OK, I'll bite - start naming the instances please

[Kennedy 0]

In general:
Socialism by it's definition does not believe in civil rights.

Civil rights exist in a sphere called civil society. This is the realm of voluntary interaction, free from government control. (control, not action)

A better explenation than I might give can be found half way down on this page: http://www.friesian.com/corrupt.htm.

Socialists, of which Clinton is one, don't believe in civil society, but rather in governmental control over all aspects of life.

Remember, before perversion by big government spinmeisters, rights were a negative, denying things to the government. Somehow, they have become "things that people are allowed to do," which immediately draws governments into all facets of life.


He sought to expand the legal basis for affirmative action to include the need for a diverse work force, not just to remedy past discrimination.

He signed a welfare bill that caused poverty (or if you prefer, failed to prevent great expansion of the number of people classified as poor).

He pushed for massive strikes against habeas corpus.

He tried to "interpret" the second amendment out of existance.

He pushed affirmative action over equal protection.

Due process became a thing of the past under his administration. Private property was up for grabs to the first law enforcement agency with the gall to take it.

I won't even go into his Imperial, America-Second policies.


Google for articles as a starting point. Here are two to get you started.

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/001010.html

http://www.cato-institute.com/dailys/8-22-97.html

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

Quote

Socialists, of which Clinton is one, don't believe in civil society, but rather in governmental control over all aspects of life.

Is "hog wash" one word, two or hyphenated?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

One word, I think.

So the "it takes a village" 'ideal' is not socialist?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

I think the words "socialist" and "socialism" are so vaguely defined in the dictionary that you could probably make a case for applying them to just about anyone that stands for the rights of the disadvantaged.

That said, the connotation in wide usage is basically the equivilent of communist and I -believe- this is the connotation you were trying to apply to the Clintons which, in my opinion, is a totally unfair characterization of what I believe they stand for.

To suggest that they wanted to total reorganization of the government, a redistribution of wealth and the total governmental control over people's lives is, I would say, a bit of a stretch.

In other words (as I believe we have agreed the spelling should be) hogwash.

I'm tellin' ya, I fear the additional governmental controls over my life that the 43rd President has imposed far more than the 42nd.

Which brings us, I believe, back on topic for this thread.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

To suggest that they wanted to total reorganization of the government, a redistribution of wealth and the total governmental control over people's lives is, I would say, a bit of a stretch.

What total reorganization? Would you not say our government has been moving more and more towards socialism since the New Deal? Think about everything that the government has it's fingers in nowadays. What is really left in the realm of "civil society?"

half way down the page on this link is a good explanation of what I mean:
http://www.friesian.com/corrupt.htm

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

On the other hand, I believe Dr. Ross is what we in polite society call "one of the 'special' people". translated -- he's a freekin' loon

You should read some other things on his web site -- seriously.

Read this http://www.friesian.com/ross/porno.htm (if you can) and then come back and tell me why I should be reading any of his other rantings.

I'm guessing that for him, tenure is a very good thing.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

Quote

I'm tellin' ya, I fear the additional governmental controls over my life that the 43rd President has imposed far more than the 42nd.

Case in point . . . ripped from todays news.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/politics/2738750

That's just a freekin' abuse of power. I don't care who it is.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

translated -- he's a freekin' loon

Oh, no questions there, really, but the fact remains from halfway down to nine tenths of the way down, he presents valid points. The fact that the first half and the last tenth are utter tripe reflect poorly on the author, but don't change the facts.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

I'm tellin' ya, I fear the additional governmental controls over my life that the 43rd President has imposed far more than the 42nd.

Well, Bush the 43rd is straight up about the shit he wants to do to you, while Slick Willy was just doing one thing and calling it another.
(I'm sorry, confiscating a house because a renter committed a crime there is ridiculous; I'd love to see them try that with a Hilton Hotel)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

OK, I'll bite - start naming the instances please

" The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people"
--Bill Clinton, during an interview on MTV in 1993

"You know the one thing that's wrong with this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say."
-- Bill Clinton, May 29, 1993, The White House

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans . . . ."
--William J. Clinton, USA Today, March 11, 1993

When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans, it was assumed that the Americans who had that freedom would use it responsibly.... [However, now] there's a lot of irresponsibility. And so a lot of people say there's too much freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it."
-- Bill Clinton, 3-22-94, MTV's "Enough is Enough"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Botellines 0]

Quote

In general:
Socialism by it's definition does not believe in civil rights.

Could you post a definition of socialism that directly or indirectly implies a disregard for civil rights?

What do you understand for civil rights?

[tkhayes 348]

geez - did he enact any of that into law? Seems GWB was pretty quick to enact the 'patriot act', giving them the right to trample on everyone's rights and freedoms (as I said earlier, in the 'name of freedom')
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12126&c=207

Oh, but that's right - you will not have any effect from the patriot act (nor will I) because you are white, (and likely from some Christian background), so why should you worry? Afterall, if we just eliminated everyone that opposed us in any way - would life not be so much easier to live?

But then we DO need to keep some of them around, especially the people that make those cheap toasters and car parts for us.....

As long as we do not affect MY freedoms, it will be OK I guess.

Want some quotes from Bush to compete with quotes from Clinton? Go to the "American Jokes" thread.
TK

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

So the "it takes a village" 'ideal' is not socialist?

OMIGOD - you are not promoting 'ideology' are you? I tried that in the gun thread but was shot down by most everyone.......
TK

I agree, hogwash, through and through - almost any intelligent person and come up with a few good points, but overall - hogwash.

Just like my uncle Fred - nice guy, church goer, family man, but gropes young girls. Has a few good points, but he still gropes young girls.

TK

[jdhill 0]

Quote

Seems GWB was pretty quick to enact the 'patriot act', giving them the right to trample on everyone's rights and freedoms

Uh, last I checked, the PA passed the Senate by a fairly wide margin... 98-1 IIRC. Everyone kneejerked to 911 including both Reps and Dems.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[jdhill 0]

But by their very nature, being political appoitees, they are political... They need to be kinda like the FED Chairman, or the FBI Director... they are appointed for a set time period, which can overlap administrations. Thereby giving only a certain amount of influence any administration can hold over the position.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Quote

Seems GWB was pretty quick to enact the 'patriot act', giving them the right to trample on everyone's rights and freedoms

Uh, last I checked, the PA passed the Senate by a fairly wide margin... 98-1 IIRC. Everyone kneejerked to 911 including both Reps and Dems.

J

No argument there. Slight difference is that the Senate knee jerk reacted and passed a horrible bill they didn't read. Bush is the one who wrote the horrible bill.