Democracy in Iraq my ass

[akarunway 1]

From the Telegraph.UK


Police expel journalists from Najaf
By Adrian Blomfield in Najaf
(Filed: 16/08/2004)


The Iraqi authorities ordered foreign journalists to leave Najaf yesterday, threatening to arrest or even shoot reporters as US marines and Iraqi government forces resumed the fight against Shia militants

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Frenchy68 0]

But the Iraqi Soccer team is doing great at the Olympics. Now THAT's worth a little infringement on the freedom of the press

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[JohnRich 4]

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The Iraqi authorities ordered foreign journalists to leave Najaf yesterday, threatening to arrest or even shoot reporters...

You omitted a few details:

Iraqi police told the journalists to leave because of a supposed threat by insurgents to bomb their hotel... The attempt to impose a news blackout in Najaf will reinforce the suspicions that a politically risky assault to storm the shrine will soon be under way. Damage to the shrine or the entry of US troops into the compound could provoke a Shia backlash and increase support for Sadr.

Would you prefer to have journalists attacked and killed? Would you prefer to have violent extremists prevent the formation of a peaceful government in Iraq?

Source Story

[quade 4]

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Iraqi police told the journalists to leave because of a supposed threat by insurgents to bomb their hotel...

Then . . .

Quote

Would you prefer to have journalists attacked and killed?

I know that a lot of folks on this Forum have little respect for reporters, but, in some cases, yes, they do in fact place their lives on the line to try to tell the true story of wars, insurrections and political abuses.

If the journos -wanted- to leave I can't say I'd blame them, however if they were -told- to leave the city and country just because there was a threat to their hotel, then I would be -very- concerned that the government was trying to hide what was going to happen next.

It's yet another very bad sign that humanity might not have gotten all that good a deal in replacing the government in Iraq.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Frenchy68 0]

I don't think that anyone wants journalists to get hurt. However, it should be their decision as to whether they are willing to take the risk. Not reporting (or not allowing reporting) events by fear of what will result is nothing short of censorship. There will NOT BE a peaceful DEMOCRATIC government in Iraq unless there is a free press. Freedom should not be selective to what suits the ruling authorities best. Otherwise, it's back to the good old Sadam ways. Let the press report what IS happening, and then you may have a chance at a "free" Iraq.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[akarunway 1]

Iraqi police told the journalists to leave because of a supposed threat by insurgents to bomb their hotel... The attempt to impose a news blackout in Najaf will reinforce the suspicions that a politically risky assault to storm the shrine will soon be under way. Damage to the shrine or the entry of US troops into the compound could provoke a Shia backlash and increase support for Sadr.
============================== So. It's OK to shoot me because I prefer to risk my life to show the world what is really happening. What would you say if thet shit starts happening (and already has) here?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[billvon 3,073]

>Would you prefer to have journalists attacked and killed?

I'd prefer that they had the freedom to decide on their own whether they want to risk death to cover the fighting in a country we 'liberated.' We seem to place a high value on freedom; we should walk the walk if we're going to talk the talk.

>Would you prefer to have violent extremists prevent the formation of a
> peaceful government in Iraq?

I'd prefer the Iraqi people decide on their own what form of government they want - even if it is comprised of violent extremists. It's their country, not ours.

[Botellines 0]

Well, you know how it goes, if it is not in video, it never happened.
It sounds like they are expecting to have high collateral damage, so much for winning the iraki people´s hearts

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

From the Telegraph.UK


Police expel journalists from Najaf
By Adrian Blomfield in Najaf
(Filed: 16/08/2004)


The Iraqi authorities ordered foreign journalists to leave Najaf yesterday, threatening to arrest or even shoot reporters as US marines and Iraqi government forces resumed the fight against Shia militants

Wow!
I didn't realise freedom of the press was equal to democracy.
Hey guys - Here's a little secret. We aren't done fighting yet.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

>Would you prefer to have journalists attacked and killed?

I'd prefer that they had the freedom to decide on their own whether they want to risk death to cover the fighting in a country we 'liberated.' We seem to place a high value on freedom; we should walk the walk if we're going to talk the talk.

>Would you prefer to have violent extremists prevent the formation of a
> peaceful government in Iraq?

I'd prefer the Iraqi people decide on their own what form of government they want - even if it is comprised of violent extremists. It's their country, not ours.

So what you are saying and describing is a "Catch 22"

If they stay and get blown up - it's bad press for us - If they are told to leave - then it's bad press - I think the officials knew that and responded with actions that saved lives, the lesser of two evils.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kaerock 1]

Couple this with the fact that just last week(?) the Iraqi government ordered Al Jazeera's offices in Baghdad closed down for 30 days for "bad behavior". I REALLY fear for the people now that they're forcing journalists out for one reason or another. Anytime you don't have an 'objective', third-party around to observe the goings on, you risk serious human-rights violations. And as we've seen(Abu Graib), the US military isn't above doing bad things to those they wield power over when they think that no one is watching.

-R

Quote

Quote

Iraqi police told the journalists to leave because of a supposed threat by insurgents to bomb their hotel...

Then . . .

Quote

Would you prefer to have journalists attacked and killed?

I know that a lot of folks on this Forum have little respect for reporters, but, in some cases, yes, they do in fact place their lives on the line to try to tell the true story of wars, insurrections and political abuses.

If the journos -wanted- to leave I can't say I'd blame them, however if they were -told- to leave the city and country just because there was a threat to their hotel, then I would be -very- concerned that the government was trying to hide what was going to happen next.

It's yet another very bad sign that humanity might not have gotten all that good a deal in replacing the government in Iraq.

You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE

[billvon 3,073]

>If they stay and get blown up - it's bad press for us . . .

Yes. But doing the right thing sometimes means accepting bad press. We are not in Iraq for the good publicity.

>If they are told to leave - then it's bad press - I think the officials knew
> that and responded with actions that saved lives, the lesser of two evils.

We have had many actions discussed here - banning guns, stopping skydiving, outlawing general aviation to fight terror - and we pretty much all agree that those are the worse of two evils, not the lesser. Even if those actions save lives.

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

>If they stay and get blown up - it's bad press for us . . .

Yes. But doing the right thing sometimes means accepting bad press. We are not in Iraq for the good publicity.

>If they are told to leave - then it's bad press - I think the officials knew
> that and responded with actions that saved lives, the lesser of two evils.

We have had many actions discussed here - banning guns, stopping skydiving, outlawing general aviation to fight terror - and we pretty much all agree that those are the worse of two evils, not the lesser. Even if those actions save lives.

I never said I or We - I said they - Thought processes work diffently in their culture.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[ozthebum 0]

Ok, here is my opinion (I'm no expert and this is really just what I think), and everyone knows that opinions are like a$$holes. Iraq isn't the US, just because we have the 1st Amendment in the bill of rights doesn't mean that that is the first thing that should be established in a county that, up until now had people getting their hands cut off for stealing, or being killed at the whim of a dictator. Yes, the war is taking longer than the general public (and plenty of government) thought it would take, but changing the way people think about rebuilding a nation that for a very vocal and extreme part of the population is happy to live the same way people lived in that country for hundred years, well it's going to take a while. Taking someone from the 1500-1800s and dropping them in the middle of Tokyo, LA, San Francisco, NY, etc., would surely drive them crazy. Try doing that to a whole society...good luck trying to keep them from turning into "Lord of the Flies". For all you who don't believe the same, flame away. Thanks for hearing my opinion.

[billvon 3,073]

> Thought processes work diffently in their culture.

Which is exactly why THEY should decide such things.

[Frenchy68 0]

And where does your (or any other people's) mandate to establish a "western" type regime there come from? Comparing their culture to Medieval times is, I believe, a mistake. Thinking that the ONLY way to be is OUR way is not only a mistake, it is insulting. And as long as we think that way, we should not be surprised when we are faced with cultural/ideological battles. Traveling in different parts of the world helps understanding how much Democracy is a "luxury", I believe. Just my thoughts...

Nick

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."