Eiley 0 #1 August 17, 2004 Well, here goes: I think well-executed hook turns and long swoops look cool. Mr Bills, wagon wheels and raft jumps are a rite of passage for novices. I love it when people do outrageous stunts for my entertainment. Most bounce jokes are funny. Bandit jumps rock - and the more rules you break, the more fun they are. If you break a bone, you accept that people will laugh about it and you will probably wind up on the bloopers tape. Yes, I think taking a mouthful of avgas so you can join the fire-breathing competition is a good idea. So are blindfolded pissed packing comps where you have to jump the rig the next day. And avgas-soaked-dunny-roll-soccer. Hooking up an old roundie to the battery cart on a windy day was an idea with a lot of merit (notwithstanding the consequences). Now I read a thread where a couple of guys landed a Mr Bill. "Wow, how cool" I think. I would have been cheering them as they landed. But no, it seems I'm wrong, according to half the responses in the thread these guys are idiots, bad for the sport. It doesn't matter that they landed it without incident - think about what might have happened! I read an incident thread, straight from the horse's mouth, where the owner of a mangled leg makes a joke about it. And gets flamed for joking about his own injury. I read people calling for MORE regulation, for banning hook turns, for grounding those who do bandit jumps, for somehow assigning responsibility for a 100-jump wonder on a VX to the person who sold them the canopy. There are people who seem to want to make the sport about as extreme as macrame. No, I don't want people killing themselves nor am I advocating putting students on 1:5 wingloadings. But I'd hate to see people - grown-ups who are responsible for their own actions - stop trying to get as close to that edge as possible. Skydivers used to have more fun than people. Just my .02 for today. YMMV. nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #2 August 17, 2004 I don't know you, but I'll toast a drink with you any time.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #3 August 17, 2004 I don't know what a Mr. Bill is, nor do I know the definition of a "bandit jump." As far as taking a mouthful of avgas, I'd never do it. If you wanna, be my guest. I don't believe that fun is measured by how many rules you break. I think that's a juvenile attitude that can get people hurt or killed. I can have incredible fun at skydiving without doing anything either stupid, against the rules, or unnecessarily risky. Can't you? I'm not alinging myself with safety-nazis, either (thanks, Drew Carey, for that term). Also, it's fine with me if a person with an injury makes light of his situation -- as long as he's not advocating that others do stuff that might be unsafe, nor making light of safety advocacy. Some people need to do skydiving in the extreme, and others don't. I'm too new to it all to make a judgment about where I'll end up some day, but for now, with exactly 100 jumps (and a weather shutdown last week when I would have done 101-104), I'm going to err on the side of caution every time, for as long as I can help it. I want to live, uninjured, to skydive for a long time to come. Blue skies, -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #4 August 17, 2004 I agree with a lot of your post. I think jumpers _should_ push the limits. I think it's great that Luigi is landing that 39 square foot canopy, and I will think it's pretty cool when someone finally lands a wingsuit (which is coming soon.) That's part of what the sport is about; pushing both yourself and the sport into new areas and doing new things. But there are limits to that. One is that it's absolutely, positively not OK to put other people at risk. You have every right to risk your life to have some fun, but have no right to risk someone else's so you can have fun. An extreme case of this was the Dwaine Weston incident. He wanted to swoop a bridge with a wingsuit. Now, if he had done this on an out of the way bridge somewhere (or even one with some sporadic traffic on it) no problem. But he did it when it was packed with people. And he screwed up, and he almost killed several people, including two kids. As it was, a lot of people were hit with blood and body parts when he impacted the bridge. And risking other people's lives like that so you can do something cool is definitely not OK. The Mr. Bill landing thing. I thought that was pretty cool. The only uncool part about it was that he landed near the FAA guy, and that might just have gotten the convention shut down. (After some fast talking and some promises that was averted.) If you're gonna do something like that, great, do it by the swoop pond or something, not in front of the trailer with the big "FAA" sign on it. Not OK to get a boogie shut down for something you think is cool. Another thing that I am not OK with is people who take risks they don't even understand. I have absolutely no problem with JP, Rhino, AggieDave etc jumping whatever canopy they want (although I might give them shit about it.) They know the risks and can accept them. But someone who has so few jumps they don't even know it's dangerous? (And yes, these people exist, and there are a lot of them.) They are the ones who, I think, need to learn about those risks before they can take them. If there is a point to canopy regulation, it is to teach these people what can happen to them before someone with 100 jumps goes off and jumps a 2:1 loaded VX. Once they do learn that? Let em jump whatever they want; it's their lives. It's a hard thing to accept, sometimes, because when people do things like low pull contests, tiny-canopy swoops, really bad bigways etc they die with some regularity, and it can be hard to accept the loss of your friends to such activities. It's the selfish part of me that wants my friends to stop smoking, doing low hooks, jumping tiny canopies etc because I have seen those things kill enough people that I know where it will end. But it's not right for me to alter their lives to save me pain, although it's tempting to try sometimes (and even though their choices often end their lives.) In the end all you can do is give them advice and hope they take it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #5 August 17, 2004 I agree with Billvon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites headoverheels 333 #6 August 17, 2004 The Sluggo in this case is very inexperienced. At the American boogie, he was positively drooling watching swoopers come in to land. So, he was shopping for a tiny Velocity, when he had ~100 jumps. He has a severe disconnect between what he wants to do and the reality of how that might be accomplished. Another jumper was trying to caution him, and that was before she found out that he only had one-third of the jumps he was claiming. He has publicly stated words to the effect that he doesn't care about dying. The mister bill episode is just further evidence that he has really really poor judgement. Mr Bill in this case should have known better that to encourage this particular Sluggo. Sluggo may find that he's running out of local dropzones at which to jump. DGIT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Eiley 0 #7 August 17, 2004 QuoteI don't know what a Mr. Bill is, nor do I know the definition of a "bandit jump." A Mr Bill is where you exit the plane holding on to each other. One jumper deploys (or is deployed out the door), the other holds on. You fly around together for a while and then the usual scenario is that as you get close to your hard deck, you step off and deploy your own parachute. Apparently a couple of jolly souls decided to dispense with that bit at WFFC and landed the thing instead. A bandit jump is just a jump where you don't necessarily follow all the rules and regualtions, eg a jump into a friend's backyard, your local park or even an event, without first acquiring the approvals, or a drunk night time takeoff etc. QuoteAs far as taking a mouthful of avgas, I'd never do it. If you wanna, be my guest. Ah, now see? That's okay by me. I would never perform a hook turn because I don't think I have the skill or discipline to consistently pull it off. For some people, that's enough that they insist therefore that nobody should hook turn. I disagree. I hope those that can continue to do so and continue to push the limits. QuoteI don't believe that fun is measured by how many rules you break. I think that's a juvenile attitude that can get people hurt or killed. I can have incredible fun at skydiving without doing anything either stupid, against the rules, or unnecessarily risky. Can't you? Yes. I can have fun doing a crossword or watching TV. Don't want to do either all the time though. QuoteI'm not alinging myself with safety-nazis, either (thanks, Drew Carey, for that term). Also, it's fine with me if a person with an injury makes light of his situation -- as long as he's not advocating that others do stuff that might be unsafe, nor making light of safety advocacy. Why shouldn't he advocate it to others? Plenty of people advocate hook turns to me. I still choose not to. Because I'm a grown-up. Who is able to make choices and understand consequences of those choices. QuoteSome people need to do skydiving in the extreme, and others don't. I'm too new to it all to make a judgment about where I'll end up some day, but for now, with exactly 100 jumps (and a weather shutdown last week when I would have done 101-104), I'm going to err on the side of caution every time, for as long as I can help it. I want to live, uninjured, to skydive for a long time to come. And that's perfectly cool. nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Eiley 0 #8 August 17, 2004 QuoteI agree with Billvon. Yeah, mostly I do too. nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymick 0 #9 August 17, 2004 Good post, I gotta admit the most memorable jumps are the ones where you think "man that was sketchy!" It all depends on who you jump with as well, i mean if one of my mates decides to try and catch me in a track after a 4 way (who know who im talking about eiley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Newbie 0 #10 August 17, 2004 QuoteI don't know what a Mr. Bill is, nor do I know the definition of a "bandit jump." As far as taking a mouthful of avgas, I'd never do it. If you wanna, be my guest. I don't believe that fun is measured by how many rules you break. I think that's a juvenile attitude that can get people hurt or killed. I can have incredible fun at skydiving without doing anything either stupid, against the rules, or unnecessarily risky. Can't you? I'm not alinging myself with safety-nazis, either (thanks, Drew Carey, for that term). Also, it's fine with me if a person with an injury makes light of his situation -- as long as he's not advocating that others do stuff that might be unsafe, nor making light of safety advocacy. Some people need to do skydiving in the extreme, and others don't. I'm too new to it all to make a judgment about where I'll end up some day, but for now, with exactly 100 jumps (and a weather shutdown last week when I would have done 101-104), I'm going to err on the side of caution every time, for as long as I can help it. I want to live, uninjured, to skydive for a long time to come. Blue skies, -Jeffrey omg someone pass the defibrillator! Jeffrey,i agree 100% "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #11 August 17, 2004 WTF!!!! This thread should not be here!!! Everybody agrees!!! I am about to agree with PeacefulJeffrey! Someone move it to Bonfire, quickly.... Edited to stop people from taking the piss about my spelling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites boudy 0 #12 August 17, 2004 EILEY! We miss that lively wit out here in the Hinckley bean fields - which is literally where I find myself landing all the time. So, until I get past the challenge of finding the DZ under canopy, I'll personally leave the tricky stuff for ya'all to contemplate & watch our many competent mates with the slightess envy and greatest appreciation & admiration. Did I ever show you my macrame? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clownburner 0 #13 August 17, 2004 Well said, Bill. Too many people nowadays (and not just Skydivers) seem to think that we need a 'nanny government' to keep everyone out of trouble, instead of understanding the risks and taking those you choose to take - and then taking responsibility for the consequences.7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #14 August 17, 2004 QuoteI agree with Billvon. Blasphemy! OK - yeah - I do too. Not that I have all that many jumps - but pushing is how we get better - complacency is how we move backward - there is no "Standing Still" in the realm of Skyjumping . . . It is a constantly moving force or (whatever) and either you are progressing or you are regressing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #15 August 17, 2004 OMG! your suggesting jumpers take responsibility for their actions?? Oh no!! Who will protect us from ourselves?? How will we live to enjoy social security without restrictions and regulations to act as safety belts?? Want to live a long safe life? Stay on the couch.. (just watch out for those cheeseburgers..) if you have issues with seeing other people live and risk their lives? Stay on the couch... don’t want to see anyone die? Stay on the couch... (and don’t turn on the TV) far to many people who seem to enjoy the athority of being their brother's keeper, and somehow convince themselves they are doing 'good'. All life ends, those who worry to much about ‘not dying’ or doing anything that has that possible outcome… miss a great deal of the enjoyment to be had in living in the first place….____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #16 August 17, 2004 QuoteSkydivers used to have more fun than people. Some of us still do. I am in full agreement with your post. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craichead 0 #17 August 17, 2004 See? This is what happened when you left! It's your fault that the Fun Police have moved in! You were supposed to visit us this year! Get back here ASAP--we miss you so much! _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #18 August 17, 2004 People getting mashed harshes my mellow, that's all. I like to be warned when I am about to see carnage, it bugs me when I'm having fun at the dropzone and somebody whumps into the ground near me. Happened just like that last year at Eloy. Standing on the porch of my trailer, beautiful day....WHUMP/crunch! Some knucklehead hooked it into the lawn, me, Loudiamond, hooknswoop, Amy (NO!...Wait! YES!) are checking the guy out, who managed to only break an ankle. It'd be fine if we just anounced things like "Chowderhead Days" with neato competitions like a swooping contest with categories by jumpnumber/wingloading ratios, Mr. Bill accuracy landings, microcrew for A license holders only, building roof landings and stuff like that. I'd pay to attend. My bitch is when folks pull stunts without warning us. Chowderhead Days. Kinda like Reserve Demo Days. Probably pretty hard to find a sponsor, though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SwoopnHuck 0 #19 August 17, 2004 QuotePeople getting mashed harshes my mellow, that's all. I like to be warned when I am about to see carnage, it bugs me when I'm having fun at the dropzone and somebody whumps into the ground near me. Happened just like that last year at Eloy. Standing on the porch of my trailer, beautiful day....WHUMP/crunch! Some knucklehead hooked it into the lawn, me, Loudiamond, hooknswoop, Amy (NO!...Wait! YES!) are checking the guy out, who managed to only break an ankle. My bitch is when folks pull stunts without warning us. Chowderhead Days. Kinda like Reserve Demo Days. Wow sure is nice to know that you, unlike all us other Chowderheads are such a good canopy pilot uncapable of making a mistake and hurting yourself under canopy. But if memory serves me correct, can't you yourself be called a Chowderhead as well? Did you or did you not break you leg while flying your canopy? Or was this an announced incident and thus couldn't possibly be grouped in with the rest of us Chowderheads? You know I've (knock on wood) yet to suffer a severe injury either swooping and/or BASE jumping, but I'm not naive enough to think that something bad can't happen to me on my next jump. So maybe you should think about your past before you start telling people about what a superior skydiver you are and how you hate it when Chowderheads take to the air. It's a parachute, it wants to open!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #20 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteI don't know what a Mr. Bill is, nor do I know the definition of a "bandit jump." As far as taking a mouthful of avgas, I'd never do it. If you wanna, be my guest. I don't believe that fun is measured by how many rules you break. I think that's a juvenile attitude that can get people hurt or killed. I can have incredible fun at skydiving without doing anything either stupid, against the rules, or unnecessarily risky. Can't you? I'm not alinging myself with safety-nazis, either (thanks, Drew Carey, for that term). Also, it's fine with me if a person with an injury makes light of his situation -- as long as he's not advocating that others do stuff that might be unsafe, nor making light of safety advocacy. Some people need to do skydiving in the extreme, and others don't. I'm too new to it all to make a judgment about where I'll end up some day, but for now, with exactly 100 jumps (and a weather shutdown last week when I would have done 101-104), I'm going to err on the side of caution every time, for as long as I can help it. I want to live, uninjured, to skydive for a long time to come. Blue skies, -Jeffrey omg someone pass the defibrillator! Jeffrey,i agree 100% See?! You don't have to always be wrong!! Blue skies, --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #21 August 17, 2004 QuoteDid you or did you not break you leg while flying your canopy? I'll bet he did not. I'll bet that if he did break his leg, it was while landing his canopy. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #22 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteDid you or did you not break you leg while flying your canopy? I'll bet he did not. I'll bet that if he did break his leg, it was while landing his canopy. - Could have been the combonation of both, while lacking a little more of the flying than landing. You never stop flying your canopy. Until it is packed - that is - and i don't think he was trying to land a packed canopy.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #23 August 17, 2004 Dude, you will never, ever see me, or read of me talking smack about canopy piloting. I fly a pair of Spectre's and just started flying a tandem canopy. I sprained both knees downsizing a couple years ago, and then broke my right ankle on uneven ground doing a flat turn to get out of traffic at Perris a little over a year ago. I've got about 700 jumps on the current Spectre size, and don't ever plan on going smaller or higher performance. Now, as to the Chowderhead Games, perhaps you are right, and I should have pronounced my participation when I downsized. (I'm confident my performance would have earned me at least a bronze) Maybe the Chowderhead Games could be a fixed day of the week where jumpers attempted great leaps beyond their demonstrated skill levels. The point I was attempting to make is that somebody falling off a Mr. Bill at 200 feet really wrecks the glow a nice 4 way freefly jump gives you when you land to the sound of sirens. I remember McBain,(Sluggo) whining to high heaven that we would not let him jump in 25 mph winds when he had like 40 jumps. The Fun Police In Action. My suggestion is that we let these daredevils do whatever they want with full Fun Police Amnesty, but they warn us so that we can get of their way with popcorn and a soda. The Chowderhead Games: Sponsored by RealTV! As to your post: Quotecan't you yourself be called a Chowderhead Yes. I'm usually the first to do so. Burke himself told me one of my actions was "not smart", and the Swedes told me one more hook turn and I'd be deported. QuoteWow sure is nice to know that you, unlike all us other Chowderheads are such a good canopy pilot uncapable of making a mistake and hurting yourself under canopy. I don't think I have ever contributed to the Swooping or Canopy Control forums. I got nothing to say there, except when the low time jumper weighted up and crashed the swoop pond at Perris. QuoteSo maybe you should think about your past before you start telling people about what a superior skydiver you are and how you hate it when Chowderheads take to the air. I don't recall ever claiming to be a superior skydiver. I passed Jay Stoke's AFF-I class, and Connie Krusi's Tandem-I course and I've gotten to participate in some cool events, but every one of those experiences just made me more and more humble about my ability. There is always somebody WAY better, at just about everything. My hat is off to you BASE jumpers, that's something I won't attempt. Speaking of which, if a jumper climbed at 300 foot antenna you just happened to be on, and he was wearing a regular skydiving rig, would you be the Fun Police to him when he told you he was going to jump it, pilot chute in hand? Better yet, unannounced, he jumps after you do, while you are still in the glow, and just smacks into the base of the antenna. I don't think telling the guy he was making a big mistake would be condescending. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SwoopnHuck 0 #24 August 18, 2004 Fair enough ... you've said you peace and said it well. I'm sure we can agree that there's a time to turn a blind eye to the foolishness and then there's a time to stop it. It's a parachute, it wants to open!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trent 0 #25 August 18, 2004 How about when morons doing stupid shit jeopardizes an entire sport? How about when shitheads do something so stupid and in front of the wrong people that it gets our sport some scrutiny from FAA or others who might think it needs to be more strictly regulated? I guess we should just let people do all the stupid shit they want, because then, the decision on what should and should not be done will be out of our hands and we can all bitch together instead of at each other. Right?Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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headoverheels 333 #6 August 17, 2004 The Sluggo in this case is very inexperienced. At the American boogie, he was positively drooling watching swoopers come in to land. So, he was shopping for a tiny Velocity, when he had ~100 jumps. He has a severe disconnect between what he wants to do and the reality of how that might be accomplished. Another jumper was trying to caution him, and that was before she found out that he only had one-third of the jumps he was claiming. He has publicly stated words to the effect that he doesn't care about dying. The mister bill episode is just further evidence that he has really really poor judgement. Mr Bill in this case should have known better that to encourage this particular Sluggo. Sluggo may find that he's running out of local dropzones at which to jump. DGIT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eiley 0 #7 August 17, 2004 QuoteI don't know what a Mr. Bill is, nor do I know the definition of a "bandit jump." A Mr Bill is where you exit the plane holding on to each other. One jumper deploys (or is deployed out the door), the other holds on. You fly around together for a while and then the usual scenario is that as you get close to your hard deck, you step off and deploy your own parachute. Apparently a couple of jolly souls decided to dispense with that bit at WFFC and landed the thing instead. A bandit jump is just a jump where you don't necessarily follow all the rules and regualtions, eg a jump into a friend's backyard, your local park or even an event, without first acquiring the approvals, or a drunk night time takeoff etc. QuoteAs far as taking a mouthful of avgas, I'd never do it. If you wanna, be my guest. Ah, now see? That's okay by me. I would never perform a hook turn because I don't think I have the skill or discipline to consistently pull it off. For some people, that's enough that they insist therefore that nobody should hook turn. I disagree. I hope those that can continue to do so and continue to push the limits. QuoteI don't believe that fun is measured by how many rules you break. I think that's a juvenile attitude that can get people hurt or killed. I can have incredible fun at skydiving without doing anything either stupid, against the rules, or unnecessarily risky. Can't you? Yes. I can have fun doing a crossword or watching TV. Don't want to do either all the time though. QuoteI'm not alinging myself with safety-nazis, either (thanks, Drew Carey, for that term). Also, it's fine with me if a person with an injury makes light of his situation -- as long as he's not advocating that others do stuff that might be unsafe, nor making light of safety advocacy. Why shouldn't he advocate it to others? Plenty of people advocate hook turns to me. I still choose not to. Because I'm a grown-up. Who is able to make choices and understand consequences of those choices. QuoteSome people need to do skydiving in the extreme, and others don't. I'm too new to it all to make a judgment about where I'll end up some day, but for now, with exactly 100 jumps (and a weather shutdown last week when I would have done 101-104), I'm going to err on the side of caution every time, for as long as I can help it. I want to live, uninjured, to skydive for a long time to come. And that's perfectly cool. nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eiley 0 #8 August 17, 2004 QuoteI agree with Billvon. Yeah, mostly I do too. nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymick 0 #9 August 17, 2004 Good post, I gotta admit the most memorable jumps are the ones where you think "man that was sketchy!" It all depends on who you jump with as well, i mean if one of my mates decides to try and catch me in a track after a 4 way (who know who im talking about eiley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Newbie 0 #10 August 17, 2004 QuoteI don't know what a Mr. Bill is, nor do I know the definition of a "bandit jump." As far as taking a mouthful of avgas, I'd never do it. If you wanna, be my guest. I don't believe that fun is measured by how many rules you break. I think that's a juvenile attitude that can get people hurt or killed. I can have incredible fun at skydiving without doing anything either stupid, against the rules, or unnecessarily risky. Can't you? I'm not alinging myself with safety-nazis, either (thanks, Drew Carey, for that term). Also, it's fine with me if a person with an injury makes light of his situation -- as long as he's not advocating that others do stuff that might be unsafe, nor making light of safety advocacy. Some people need to do skydiving in the extreme, and others don't. I'm too new to it all to make a judgment about where I'll end up some day, but for now, with exactly 100 jumps (and a weather shutdown last week when I would have done 101-104), I'm going to err on the side of caution every time, for as long as I can help it. I want to live, uninjured, to skydive for a long time to come. Blue skies, -Jeffrey omg someone pass the defibrillator! Jeffrey,i agree 100% "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #11 August 17, 2004 WTF!!!! This thread should not be here!!! Everybody agrees!!! I am about to agree with PeacefulJeffrey! Someone move it to Bonfire, quickly.... Edited to stop people from taking the piss about my spelling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites boudy 0 #12 August 17, 2004 EILEY! We miss that lively wit out here in the Hinckley bean fields - which is literally where I find myself landing all the time. So, until I get past the challenge of finding the DZ under canopy, I'll personally leave the tricky stuff for ya'all to contemplate & watch our many competent mates with the slightess envy and greatest appreciation & admiration. Did I ever show you my macrame? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clownburner 0 #13 August 17, 2004 Well said, Bill. Too many people nowadays (and not just Skydivers) seem to think that we need a 'nanny government' to keep everyone out of trouble, instead of understanding the risks and taking those you choose to take - and then taking responsibility for the consequences.7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #14 August 17, 2004 QuoteI agree with Billvon. Blasphemy! OK - yeah - I do too. Not that I have all that many jumps - but pushing is how we get better - complacency is how we move backward - there is no "Standing Still" in the realm of Skyjumping . . . It is a constantly moving force or (whatever) and either you are progressing or you are regressing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #15 August 17, 2004 OMG! your suggesting jumpers take responsibility for their actions?? Oh no!! Who will protect us from ourselves?? How will we live to enjoy social security without restrictions and regulations to act as safety belts?? Want to live a long safe life? Stay on the couch.. (just watch out for those cheeseburgers..) if you have issues with seeing other people live and risk their lives? Stay on the couch... don’t want to see anyone die? Stay on the couch... (and don’t turn on the TV) far to many people who seem to enjoy the athority of being their brother's keeper, and somehow convince themselves they are doing 'good'. All life ends, those who worry to much about ‘not dying’ or doing anything that has that possible outcome… miss a great deal of the enjoyment to be had in living in the first place….____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #16 August 17, 2004 QuoteSkydivers used to have more fun than people. Some of us still do. I am in full agreement with your post. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craichead 0 #17 August 17, 2004 See? This is what happened when you left! It's your fault that the Fun Police have moved in! You were supposed to visit us this year! Get back here ASAP--we miss you so much! _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #18 August 17, 2004 People getting mashed harshes my mellow, that's all. I like to be warned when I am about to see carnage, it bugs me when I'm having fun at the dropzone and somebody whumps into the ground near me. Happened just like that last year at Eloy. Standing on the porch of my trailer, beautiful day....WHUMP/crunch! Some knucklehead hooked it into the lawn, me, Loudiamond, hooknswoop, Amy (NO!...Wait! YES!) are checking the guy out, who managed to only break an ankle. It'd be fine if we just anounced things like "Chowderhead Days" with neato competitions like a swooping contest with categories by jumpnumber/wingloading ratios, Mr. Bill accuracy landings, microcrew for A license holders only, building roof landings and stuff like that. I'd pay to attend. My bitch is when folks pull stunts without warning us. Chowderhead Days. Kinda like Reserve Demo Days. Probably pretty hard to find a sponsor, though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SwoopnHuck 0 #19 August 17, 2004 QuotePeople getting mashed harshes my mellow, that's all. I like to be warned when I am about to see carnage, it bugs me when I'm having fun at the dropzone and somebody whumps into the ground near me. Happened just like that last year at Eloy. Standing on the porch of my trailer, beautiful day....WHUMP/crunch! Some knucklehead hooked it into the lawn, me, Loudiamond, hooknswoop, Amy (NO!...Wait! YES!) are checking the guy out, who managed to only break an ankle. My bitch is when folks pull stunts without warning us. Chowderhead Days. Kinda like Reserve Demo Days. Wow sure is nice to know that you, unlike all us other Chowderheads are such a good canopy pilot uncapable of making a mistake and hurting yourself under canopy. But if memory serves me correct, can't you yourself be called a Chowderhead as well? Did you or did you not break you leg while flying your canopy? Or was this an announced incident and thus couldn't possibly be grouped in with the rest of us Chowderheads? You know I've (knock on wood) yet to suffer a severe injury either swooping and/or BASE jumping, but I'm not naive enough to think that something bad can't happen to me on my next jump. So maybe you should think about your past before you start telling people about what a superior skydiver you are and how you hate it when Chowderheads take to the air. It's a parachute, it wants to open!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #20 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteI don't know what a Mr. Bill is, nor do I know the definition of a "bandit jump." As far as taking a mouthful of avgas, I'd never do it. If you wanna, be my guest. I don't believe that fun is measured by how many rules you break. I think that's a juvenile attitude that can get people hurt or killed. I can have incredible fun at skydiving without doing anything either stupid, against the rules, or unnecessarily risky. Can't you? I'm not alinging myself with safety-nazis, either (thanks, Drew Carey, for that term). Also, it's fine with me if a person with an injury makes light of his situation -- as long as he's not advocating that others do stuff that might be unsafe, nor making light of safety advocacy. Some people need to do skydiving in the extreme, and others don't. I'm too new to it all to make a judgment about where I'll end up some day, but for now, with exactly 100 jumps (and a weather shutdown last week when I would have done 101-104), I'm going to err on the side of caution every time, for as long as I can help it. I want to live, uninjured, to skydive for a long time to come. Blue skies, -Jeffrey omg someone pass the defibrillator! Jeffrey,i agree 100% See?! You don't have to always be wrong!! Blue skies, --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #21 August 17, 2004 QuoteDid you or did you not break you leg while flying your canopy? I'll bet he did not. I'll bet that if he did break his leg, it was while landing his canopy. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #22 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteDid you or did you not break you leg while flying your canopy? I'll bet he did not. I'll bet that if he did break his leg, it was while landing his canopy. - Could have been the combonation of both, while lacking a little more of the flying than landing. You never stop flying your canopy. Until it is packed - that is - and i don't think he was trying to land a packed canopy.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #23 August 17, 2004 Dude, you will never, ever see me, or read of me talking smack about canopy piloting. I fly a pair of Spectre's and just started flying a tandem canopy. I sprained both knees downsizing a couple years ago, and then broke my right ankle on uneven ground doing a flat turn to get out of traffic at Perris a little over a year ago. I've got about 700 jumps on the current Spectre size, and don't ever plan on going smaller or higher performance. Now, as to the Chowderhead Games, perhaps you are right, and I should have pronounced my participation when I downsized. (I'm confident my performance would have earned me at least a bronze) Maybe the Chowderhead Games could be a fixed day of the week where jumpers attempted great leaps beyond their demonstrated skill levels. The point I was attempting to make is that somebody falling off a Mr. Bill at 200 feet really wrecks the glow a nice 4 way freefly jump gives you when you land to the sound of sirens. I remember McBain,(Sluggo) whining to high heaven that we would not let him jump in 25 mph winds when he had like 40 jumps. The Fun Police In Action. My suggestion is that we let these daredevils do whatever they want with full Fun Police Amnesty, but they warn us so that we can get of their way with popcorn and a soda. The Chowderhead Games: Sponsored by RealTV! As to your post: Quotecan't you yourself be called a Chowderhead Yes. I'm usually the first to do so. Burke himself told me one of my actions was "not smart", and the Swedes told me one more hook turn and I'd be deported. QuoteWow sure is nice to know that you, unlike all us other Chowderheads are such a good canopy pilot uncapable of making a mistake and hurting yourself under canopy. I don't think I have ever contributed to the Swooping or Canopy Control forums. I got nothing to say there, except when the low time jumper weighted up and crashed the swoop pond at Perris. QuoteSo maybe you should think about your past before you start telling people about what a superior skydiver you are and how you hate it when Chowderheads take to the air. I don't recall ever claiming to be a superior skydiver. I passed Jay Stoke's AFF-I class, and Connie Krusi's Tandem-I course and I've gotten to participate in some cool events, but every one of those experiences just made me more and more humble about my ability. There is always somebody WAY better, at just about everything. My hat is off to you BASE jumpers, that's something I won't attempt. Speaking of which, if a jumper climbed at 300 foot antenna you just happened to be on, and he was wearing a regular skydiving rig, would you be the Fun Police to him when he told you he was going to jump it, pilot chute in hand? Better yet, unannounced, he jumps after you do, while you are still in the glow, and just smacks into the base of the antenna. I don't think telling the guy he was making a big mistake would be condescending. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SwoopnHuck 0 #24 August 18, 2004 Fair enough ... you've said you peace and said it well. I'm sure we can agree that there's a time to turn a blind eye to the foolishness and then there's a time to stop it. It's a parachute, it wants to open!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trent 0 #25 August 18, 2004 How about when morons doing stupid shit jeopardizes an entire sport? How about when shitheads do something so stupid and in front of the wrong people that it gets our sport some scrutiny from FAA or others who might think it needs to be more strictly regulated? I guess we should just let people do all the stupid shit they want, because then, the decision on what should and should not be done will be out of our hands and we can all bitch together instead of at each other. Right?Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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Newbie 0 #10 August 17, 2004 QuoteI don't know what a Mr. Bill is, nor do I know the definition of a "bandit jump." As far as taking a mouthful of avgas, I'd never do it. If you wanna, be my guest. I don't believe that fun is measured by how many rules you break. I think that's a juvenile attitude that can get people hurt or killed. I can have incredible fun at skydiving without doing anything either stupid, against the rules, or unnecessarily risky. Can't you? I'm not alinging myself with safety-nazis, either (thanks, Drew Carey, for that term). Also, it's fine with me if a person with an injury makes light of his situation -- as long as he's not advocating that others do stuff that might be unsafe, nor making light of safety advocacy. Some people need to do skydiving in the extreme, and others don't. I'm too new to it all to make a judgment about where I'll end up some day, but for now, with exactly 100 jumps (and a weather shutdown last week when I would have done 101-104), I'm going to err on the side of caution every time, for as long as I can help it. I want to live, uninjured, to skydive for a long time to come. Blue skies, -Jeffrey omg someone pass the defibrillator! Jeffrey,i agree 100% "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #11 August 17, 2004 WTF!!!! This thread should not be here!!! Everybody agrees!!! I am about to agree with PeacefulJeffrey! Someone move it to Bonfire, quickly.... Edited to stop people from taking the piss about my spelling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boudy 0 #12 August 17, 2004 EILEY! We miss that lively wit out here in the Hinckley bean fields - which is literally where I find myself landing all the time. So, until I get past the challenge of finding the DZ under canopy, I'll personally leave the tricky stuff for ya'all to contemplate & watch our many competent mates with the slightess envy and greatest appreciation & admiration. Did I ever show you my macrame? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clownburner 0 #13 August 17, 2004 Well said, Bill. Too many people nowadays (and not just Skydivers) seem to think that we need a 'nanny government' to keep everyone out of trouble, instead of understanding the risks and taking those you choose to take - and then taking responsibility for the consequences.7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #14 August 17, 2004 QuoteI agree with Billvon. Blasphemy! OK - yeah - I do too. Not that I have all that many jumps - but pushing is how we get better - complacency is how we move backward - there is no "Standing Still" in the realm of Skyjumping . . . It is a constantly moving force or (whatever) and either you are progressing or you are regressing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #15 August 17, 2004 OMG! your suggesting jumpers take responsibility for their actions?? Oh no!! Who will protect us from ourselves?? How will we live to enjoy social security without restrictions and regulations to act as safety belts?? Want to live a long safe life? Stay on the couch.. (just watch out for those cheeseburgers..) if you have issues with seeing other people live and risk their lives? Stay on the couch... don’t want to see anyone die? Stay on the couch... (and don’t turn on the TV) far to many people who seem to enjoy the athority of being their brother's keeper, and somehow convince themselves they are doing 'good'. All life ends, those who worry to much about ‘not dying’ or doing anything that has that possible outcome… miss a great deal of the enjoyment to be had in living in the first place….____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #16 August 17, 2004 QuoteSkydivers used to have more fun than people. Some of us still do. I am in full agreement with your post. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #17 August 17, 2004 See? This is what happened when you left! It's your fault that the Fun Police have moved in! You were supposed to visit us this year! Get back here ASAP--we miss you so much! _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #18 August 17, 2004 People getting mashed harshes my mellow, that's all. I like to be warned when I am about to see carnage, it bugs me when I'm having fun at the dropzone and somebody whumps into the ground near me. Happened just like that last year at Eloy. Standing on the porch of my trailer, beautiful day....WHUMP/crunch! Some knucklehead hooked it into the lawn, me, Loudiamond, hooknswoop, Amy (NO!...Wait! YES!) are checking the guy out, who managed to only break an ankle. It'd be fine if we just anounced things like "Chowderhead Days" with neato competitions like a swooping contest with categories by jumpnumber/wingloading ratios, Mr. Bill accuracy landings, microcrew for A license holders only, building roof landings and stuff like that. I'd pay to attend. My bitch is when folks pull stunts without warning us. Chowderhead Days. Kinda like Reserve Demo Days. Probably pretty hard to find a sponsor, though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwoopnHuck 0 #19 August 17, 2004 QuotePeople getting mashed harshes my mellow, that's all. I like to be warned when I am about to see carnage, it bugs me when I'm having fun at the dropzone and somebody whumps into the ground near me. Happened just like that last year at Eloy. Standing on the porch of my trailer, beautiful day....WHUMP/crunch! Some knucklehead hooked it into the lawn, me, Loudiamond, hooknswoop, Amy (NO!...Wait! YES!) are checking the guy out, who managed to only break an ankle. My bitch is when folks pull stunts without warning us. Chowderhead Days. Kinda like Reserve Demo Days. Wow sure is nice to know that you, unlike all us other Chowderheads are such a good canopy pilot uncapable of making a mistake and hurting yourself under canopy. But if memory serves me correct, can't you yourself be called a Chowderhead as well? Did you or did you not break you leg while flying your canopy? Or was this an announced incident and thus couldn't possibly be grouped in with the rest of us Chowderheads? You know I've (knock on wood) yet to suffer a severe injury either swooping and/or BASE jumping, but I'm not naive enough to think that something bad can't happen to me on my next jump. So maybe you should think about your past before you start telling people about what a superior skydiver you are and how you hate it when Chowderheads take to the air. It's a parachute, it wants to open!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #20 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteI don't know what a Mr. Bill is, nor do I know the definition of a "bandit jump." As far as taking a mouthful of avgas, I'd never do it. If you wanna, be my guest. I don't believe that fun is measured by how many rules you break. I think that's a juvenile attitude that can get people hurt or killed. I can have incredible fun at skydiving without doing anything either stupid, against the rules, or unnecessarily risky. Can't you? I'm not alinging myself with safety-nazis, either (thanks, Drew Carey, for that term). Also, it's fine with me if a person with an injury makes light of his situation -- as long as he's not advocating that others do stuff that might be unsafe, nor making light of safety advocacy. Some people need to do skydiving in the extreme, and others don't. I'm too new to it all to make a judgment about where I'll end up some day, but for now, with exactly 100 jumps (and a weather shutdown last week when I would have done 101-104), I'm going to err on the side of caution every time, for as long as I can help it. I want to live, uninjured, to skydive for a long time to come. Blue skies, -Jeffrey omg someone pass the defibrillator! Jeffrey,i agree 100% See?! You don't have to always be wrong!! Blue skies, --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #21 August 17, 2004 QuoteDid you or did you not break you leg while flying your canopy? I'll bet he did not. I'll bet that if he did break his leg, it was while landing his canopy. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #22 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteDid you or did you not break you leg while flying your canopy? I'll bet he did not. I'll bet that if he did break his leg, it was while landing his canopy. - Could have been the combonation of both, while lacking a little more of the flying than landing. You never stop flying your canopy. Until it is packed - that is - and i don't think he was trying to land a packed canopy.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #23 August 17, 2004 Dude, you will never, ever see me, or read of me talking smack about canopy piloting. I fly a pair of Spectre's and just started flying a tandem canopy. I sprained both knees downsizing a couple years ago, and then broke my right ankle on uneven ground doing a flat turn to get out of traffic at Perris a little over a year ago. I've got about 700 jumps on the current Spectre size, and don't ever plan on going smaller or higher performance. Now, as to the Chowderhead Games, perhaps you are right, and I should have pronounced my participation when I downsized. (I'm confident my performance would have earned me at least a bronze) Maybe the Chowderhead Games could be a fixed day of the week where jumpers attempted great leaps beyond their demonstrated skill levels. The point I was attempting to make is that somebody falling off a Mr. Bill at 200 feet really wrecks the glow a nice 4 way freefly jump gives you when you land to the sound of sirens. I remember McBain,(Sluggo) whining to high heaven that we would not let him jump in 25 mph winds when he had like 40 jumps. The Fun Police In Action. My suggestion is that we let these daredevils do whatever they want with full Fun Police Amnesty, but they warn us so that we can get of their way with popcorn and a soda. The Chowderhead Games: Sponsored by RealTV! As to your post: Quotecan't you yourself be called a Chowderhead Yes. I'm usually the first to do so. Burke himself told me one of my actions was "not smart", and the Swedes told me one more hook turn and I'd be deported. QuoteWow sure is nice to know that you, unlike all us other Chowderheads are such a good canopy pilot uncapable of making a mistake and hurting yourself under canopy. I don't think I have ever contributed to the Swooping or Canopy Control forums. I got nothing to say there, except when the low time jumper weighted up and crashed the swoop pond at Perris. QuoteSo maybe you should think about your past before you start telling people about what a superior skydiver you are and how you hate it when Chowderheads take to the air. I don't recall ever claiming to be a superior skydiver. I passed Jay Stoke's AFF-I class, and Connie Krusi's Tandem-I course and I've gotten to participate in some cool events, but every one of those experiences just made me more and more humble about my ability. There is always somebody WAY better, at just about everything. My hat is off to you BASE jumpers, that's something I won't attempt. Speaking of which, if a jumper climbed at 300 foot antenna you just happened to be on, and he was wearing a regular skydiving rig, would you be the Fun Police to him when he told you he was going to jump it, pilot chute in hand? Better yet, unannounced, he jumps after you do, while you are still in the glow, and just smacks into the base of the antenna. I don't think telling the guy he was making a big mistake would be condescending. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwoopnHuck 0 #24 August 18, 2004 Fair enough ... you've said you peace and said it well. I'm sure we can agree that there's a time to turn a blind eye to the foolishness and then there's a time to stop it. It's a parachute, it wants to open!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #25 August 18, 2004 How about when morons doing stupid shit jeopardizes an entire sport? How about when shitheads do something so stupid and in front of the wrong people that it gets our sport some scrutiny from FAA or others who might think it needs to be more strictly regulated? I guess we should just let people do all the stupid shit they want, because then, the decision on what should and should not be done will be out of our hands and we can all bitch together instead of at each other. Right?Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
