akarunway 1 #1 August 19, 2004 Rep. Graf of Arizona (R) is proposing an ammendment to allow concealed firearms in bars. Talk about the Wild Wild West. Comments? Personally I'm all for it. Better yet open carryI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #2 August 19, 2004 QuoteRep. Graf of Arizona (R) is proposing an ammendment to allow concealed firearms in bars. Talk about the Wild Wild West. Comments? Personally I'm all for it. Better yet open carry With concealed carry, bar fights will probably become a rare occurrence. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #3 August 19, 2004 QuoteRep. Graf of Arizona (R) is proposing an ammendment to allow concealed firearms in bars. Talk about the Wild Wild West. Comments? Personally I'm all for it. Better yet open carry Does anybody believe that bar patrons who have license to carry concealed firearms strip themselves of them whenever they go into bars currently? All the law will be doing is legalizing what is probably done all the time now without incident. I find it odd that you say, "Talk about the Wild Wild West." Concealed carry was predicted by anti-gun fearmongers to result in "blood running in the streets" and that hasn't come anywhere near close to materializing, much as the anti-gunners were wishing it would so they could push their gun-ban agenda. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #4 August 19, 2004 QuoteRep. Graf of Arizona (R) is proposing an ammendment to allow concealed firearms in bars. Talk about the Wild Wild West. Comments? Personally I'm all for it. Better yet open carry I'm about as strong a concealed carry proponent as you'll find, but I've heard studies that say alcohol was the catalyst for most old west shootouts. I'd love to be able to carry my pistol in bars (one of the few places I can't carry in Texas), but I've seen enough normally sensible people do really stupid stuff under the influence without the help of firearms. If you want to drink, hand over your car keys and your gun. --DouvaI don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #5 August 19, 2004 Just trying to strike a debate. I'm for EVERYONE carrying 24/7. Would bring back maybe common courtesy and the likesI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #6 August 19, 2004 QuoteDoes anybody believe that bar patrons who have license to carry concealed firearms strip themselves of them whenever they go into bars currently? All law abiding persons with a license to carry concealed firearms will strip themselves of the firearms whenever they enter into bars, if it illegal to do so. If they do not, when the law requires it, they are not law abiding and should not be licensed. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #7 August 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteDoes anybody believe that bar patrons who have license to carry concealed firearms strip themselves of them whenever they go into bars currently? All law abiding persons with a license to carry concealed firearms will strip themselves of the firearms whenever they enter into bars, if it illegal to do so. If they do not, when the law requires it, they are not law abiding and should not be licensed. FallRate I don't agree with this assessment, because I don't think a person who harmlessly goes into a bar -- let's say he's throwing darts with friends and is their designated driver, so he imbibes zero alcohol -- is "criminal" for carrying his licensed handgun even if it is against the "law" to do so. I draw significant distinctions between those who carry somewhat outside of what the permit allows but DO NO HARM to anyone, and INTEND NO HARM to anyone, and those who carry because they're looking for trouble. The ones who are looking for trouble are generally going to be found to be carrying without a permit, anyway. If a law was passed tomorrow that made it illegal to blink your eyes, you could truthfully call all of us criminals unworthy of having eyelids. That wouldn't necessarily make us bad people. Put a nonsensical legal impediment between people and their harmless behavior (carrying a gun is not intrinsically bad behavior) and you don't necessarily prove that they are bad or unworthy people. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #8 August 19, 2004 > is "criminal" for carrying his licensed handgun even if it is against > the "law" to do so. He is just as much a criminal as someone who comes into the US with a few pounds of cocaine because it was legal in the country he left. Criminals break the law; that's sort of the definition. If you don't like the law, by all means change it - but until then you will go to jail if you break it. >Put a nonsensical legal impediment between people and their > harmless behavior (carrying a gun is not intrinsically bad behavior) >and you don't necessarily prove that they are bad or unworthy people. Agreed. They may not be unworthy; they are just criminals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 August 19, 2004 QuoteJust trying to strike a debate. I'm for EVERYONE carrying 24/7. Would bring back maybe common courtesy and the likes Quote An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein "Beyond This Horizon"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #10 August 19, 2004 QuoteTalk about the Wild Wild West Bwaahahahahahaha You know what? The same thing was said about Texas when they passed CCW laws. Guess what? Violent crime dropped and there have only been a couple cases of the wrong sorts of people getting the license then fucking up (this is out of thousands of people having the license). Oh, bars...anyplace here that's a 51% (makes 51% or more of their money from alcohol) it is a felony to carry a firearm there, CHL or not. There's also an extensive background check before earning the right to the CHL. Basically if you have more then a speeding ticket on your record, you're not getting it. Its also fairly costly to get the CHL, which is a deterant. Its done good things for the 23 states that have CCW laws on the books thus far, surprising the bleeding heart liberals aka anti-gun rights folks.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #11 August 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteTalk about the Wild Wild West Its done good things for the 23 states that have CCW laws on the books thus far, surprising the bleeding heart liberals aka anti-gun rights folks. Dude, the NRA counts it as like 36 states, I thought. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #12 August 19, 2004 There's also an extensive background check before earning the right to the CHL. Basically if you have more then a speeding ticket on your record, you're not getting it. Its also fairly costly to get the CHL, which is a deterant___________________________________________________ That's why I like the Wild Wild East. Namely Florida. No felonies, alcohol, drug or mental arrests (or domestic violence) in the prior 3 yrs a firearms safety course ($25 ) and you're good to go. No carry in schools, bars or airports (duh) tho.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #13 August 19, 2004 Alcohol + heavy machinery = dangerous Alcohol + driving = dangerous Alcohol + firearms = dangerous I hope no one challenge that. Even if the drunk person shoots on self defense, will his aim be good enough to blow the bad guy´s head up and not any innocent person´s head? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #14 August 19, 2004 ah yes, alcohol and guns, a most marvelous combination....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #15 August 19, 2004 Lets ban beer then......-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #16 August 19, 2004 QuoteOh, bars...anyplace here that's a 51% (makes 51% or more of their money from alcohol) it is a felony to carry a firearm there, CHL or not. Not here in PA, and it hasn't been a problem. However, one of the requirements for CCL is that you are not a drunkard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #17 August 19, 2004 Of course, my friend. We both know that the important thing in the pub is to be able to bring your toys in. I have seen some fights in Opium (cow gate, Edinburgh) and man, was i glad no one had a gun!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #18 August 19, 2004 Only places you can't carry in Colo.,courthouses and government buildings,schools,sports stadiums....bars and pubs carry is allowed!.....so be polite in the pub when you come out hereMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #19 August 19, 2004 Not here in PA, and it hasn't been a problem. However, one of the requirements for CCL is that you are not a drunkard. _____________________________________________-- What I say. Just cause I am in a bar doesn't mean I'm drinking alcohol. I may be the DD. If they'd give me a D/L . LOL. Another storyI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #20 August 19, 2004 The free tee-shirt you get when you demo an Icarus canopy is cool with the emblem being all sideways and shit... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #21 August 19, 2004 To hijack my own thread Damn am I bored or what? Greek and Roman Mythology > Simonides Simonides Simonides was one of the most prolific of the early poets of Greece, but only a few fragments of his compositions have descended to us. He wrote hymns, triumphal odes, and elegies. In the last species of composition he particularly excelled. His genius was inclined to the pathetic, and none could touch with truer effect the chords of human sympathy. The Lamentation of Danae, the most important of the fragments which remain of his poetry is based upon the tradition that Danae and her infant son were confined by order of her father Acrisius in a chest and set adrift on the sea. The chest floated towards the island of Seriphus, where both were rescued by Dictys, a fisherman, and carried to Polydectes, king of the country, who received and protected them. The child Perseus when grown up became a famous hero, whose adventures have been recorded in a previous chapter. Simonides passed much of his life at the courts of princes, and often employed his talents in panegyric and festal odes, receiving his reward from the munificence of those whose exploits he celebrated. This employment was not derogatory, but closely resembles that of the earliest bards, such as Demodocus, described by Homer, or of Homer himself as recorded by tradition. On one occasion when residing at the court of Scopas, king of Thessaly, the prince desired him to prepare a poem in celebration of his exploits, to be recited at a banquet. In order to diversify his theme, Simonides, who was celebrated for his piety, introduced into his poem the exploits of Castor and Pollux. Such digressions were not unusual with the poets on similar occasions, and one might suppose an ordinary mortal might have been content to share the praises of the sons of Leda. But vanity is exacting; and as Scopas sat at his festal board among his courtiers and sycophants, he grudged every verse that did not rehearse his own praises. When Simonides approached to receive the promised reward Scopas bestowed but half the expected sum, saying, "Here is payment for my portion of the performance, Castor and Pollux will doubtless compensate thee for so much as relates to them." The disconcerted poet returned to his seat amidst the laughter which followed the great man's jest. In a little time he received a message that two young men on horseback were waiting without and anxious to see him. Simonides hastened to the door, but looked in vain for the visitors. Scarcely however had he left the banqueting-hall when the roof fell in with a loud crash, burying Scopas and all his guests beneath the ruins. On inquiring as to the appearance of the young men who had sent for him, Simonides was satisfied that they were no other than Castor and Pollux themselves. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #22 August 19, 2004 That's cool! I'm reading "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield about Spartans vs. Persians at the battle of Thermopylae. That's where I got the quote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #23 August 19, 2004 Quote Alcohol + heavy machinery = dangerous Alcohol + driving = dangerous Alcohol + firearms = dangerous You were not specific. I see nothing wrong with sitting in a bar and then driving home. There was alcohol there, but the driver controlled himself and did not get sloshed. Same scenario with firearms. If you want to go into a bar, I see nothing wrong with that. I've been to bars, stayed all night, and not had more than one watered down cheap domestic. I drove home. Alcohol + driving = no problem. If I had been carrying that night (fat chance, it was in Maryland), the same equation would've been true for firearms. QuoteEven if the drunk person shoots on self defense, will his aim be good enough to blow the bad guy´s head up and not any innocent person´s head? Few people who know anything about self defense are aiming at anyone's head.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #24 August 19, 2004 QuoteQuote Alcohol + heavy machinery = dangerous Alcohol + driving = dangerous Alcohol + firearms = dangerous You were not specific. I see nothing wrong with sitting in a bar and then driving home. There was alcohol there, but the driver controlled himself and did not get sloshed. Same scenario with firearms. If you want to go into a bar, I see nothing wrong with that. I've been to bars, stayed all night, and not had more than one watered down cheap domestic. I drove home. Alcohol + driving = no problem. If I had been carrying that night (fat chance, it was in Maryland), the same equation would've been true for firearms. QuoteEven if the drunk person shoots on self defense, will his aim be good enough to blow the bad guy´s head up and not any innocent person´s head? Few people who know anything about self defense are aiming at anyone's head. What about: alcohol + flying (FAA is quite strict).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #25 August 19, 2004 Do they outlaw pilots sitting in bars before getting into the cockpit? Or do they outlaw being drunk and getting there. Big difference.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
