Zenister 0 #101 August 24, 2004 Quote he "created" those characters and put them in those situations, in fact, if he wanted he could make them "dissapear". so much for freewill. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #102 August 24, 2004 Quote"So, man is the perfect image of god, but man is corruptible and indeed has been corrupted by the forces of evil" Due to man's own freewill. Man fucked up. Then Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden. After that they fucked up, down, sideways, upside down... But mankind has free will because they are the perfect image of God, who also has freewill, so God is still corruptible and therefore God is Evil.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
419gotaminute 0 #103 August 24, 2004 it doesn't come out and say don't eat pigs... it does say something along the lines of don't eat anything of "Cloven Hoof" which includes pigs and horses and anything with a split foot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #104 August 24, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...But inside this person feels different. Something is wrong. Some mistake was made maybe? But not according to the people who believe in this perfect God as he made them just the way they were supposed to be made despite the fact that this person knows something is wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't really understand what you're trying to say. __________________________________________ I think it's the same point I was asking earlier which AggieDave couldn't be arsed to respond to: If someone is born disabled or gay or with an allergy to communion wafers, who made them that way? Did God do it? If so, why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #105 August 24, 2004 Actually AD adressed that all the way back in his first post in this thread. According to Christian doctorine God didn't make her - her parent's did as their parents before them did, and before them, and before them, right back to Adam and Eve, who were the onle people (aside from JC) where were directly made by God. Want a more complete answer - go read AD's second post in the thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #106 August 24, 2004 he didnt address who puts the imperfections in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #107 August 24, 2004 Except to say that God doesn't. I'll not answer for him... but my answer would be that such things are usually the result of a genetic mutation. You want to assign that mutation to the Devil, God, a manifestation of free will or just 'shit-happens' that's up to you. But AD pointed out that standard Christian doctorine rules out God's influence, I guess you'll have to wait an see if he want's to say what he thinks causes the mutation, if he even holds with that explanation at all. As for being homosexual... we'll I've no idea... I'm not even aware if the jury's back on whether or not you're "born" homosexual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #108 August 24, 2004 QuoteIf someone is born disabled or gay or with an allergy to communion wafers, who made them that way? Did God do it? If so, why? We are all part of a bigger plan, some of us are meant to be "different" in order to educate others or just to have some kind of effect on others, why?, well, he's teaching us a lesson, is up to us to learn from it or do nothing.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #109 August 24, 2004 So you think God does make them? Even though your religion tells you that he only made 3 specific people and has no hand in the rest? What other things do you disagree with your religion on? Do you think Jesus was a woman even though Bible tells you otherwise? Why is it OK to ignore one thing your religious text tells you and believe the opposite is the truth, and not ok to ignore another element… such as having wheat in your wafer? Point is, if some things are nice and flexible so we can each have our own views/beliefs/interpretations of them, then why is Catholic dogma so restrictive as to deny this young girl Communion? If such a big thing as who actually creates life on this planet is open to such interpretation, why are the ingredients of a simple wafer so important? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #110 August 24, 2004 QuoteWant a more complete answer - go read AD's second post in the thread. Unfortunately that explanation is as full of holes as a greenhouse with all the windows removed. Unless of course you remove the bit about 'In the perfect image of' which unfortunately leads back to god creating imperfect beings to start off with, which raises the issue of god being the source of sin in the world. And I'm pretty sure that isn't included in many mainstream theory's.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #111 August 24, 2004 QuoteUnfortunately that explanation is as full of holes as a greenhouse with all the windows removed. Meh. I wrote the short answer, and didn't reference any of the scriptures. If you want the full answer pull out the book, read it, study it. I've become bored with this thread and have moved on to the funny one where the British guy talks about America and guns, obviously getting all of his information about America from bad TV shows.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #112 August 24, 2004 QuoteI've become bored with this thread and have moved on to the funny one where the British guy talks about America and guns, obviously getting all of his information about America from bad TV shows. Dude, which one? Although being from this side of the pond myself I prefer the ones where the American talks about how frightening it is to live Britain, getting all his info from right wing pressure groups.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #113 August 24, 2004 QuoteDude, which one? Although being from this side of the pond myself I prefer the ones where the American talks about how frightening it is to live Britain, getting all his info from right wing pressure groups The Conceal Carry thread. There's a new poster "DB-UK" or something like that...its humorous.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #114 August 24, 2004 Aaah yes, thanks for the pointerDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #115 August 24, 2004 QuoteFor someone who claims to be anti-religion, you certainly show up in a lot of "religion" threads There is a very big difference between not believing in a religion and being anti religion. I don't believe in them, but I'm not against it at all. Believe in whatever the fuck you want to as long as it doesn't directly harm me or my family, because then I'll kick your ass Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #116 August 24, 2004 Sounds like the Catholic Church I grew up with. It's all about fear and control. post edited per comments below Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #117 August 24, 2004 Quoteit doesn't come out and say don't eat pigs... it does say something along the lines of don't eat anything of "Cloven Hoof" which includes pigs and horses and anything with a split foot That's one damn funny looking horse with serious issues if he has a split foot! Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcrocker 0 #118 August 24, 2004 QuoteI didn't fuck up. It's SICK and FUCKED UP to judge ME, and hold eternal punishment over MY head, because some alleged ancestors were the ones who sinned. You have to beleive in the religion in order to beleive in original sin. If you don't buy into the Catholic religion as defined by the Vatican you don't need to concern yourself with eternal punishment. It's all just a roulette game. When the numbers come up, hopefully you bet on the right one. Personally, I'm betting on green. That is if you even believe there is a heaven and hell to go to when you die. You could just beleive in dirt and worms and be done with it. Original sin is also easy to get out of, just get baptised and/or confirmed (Again if you beleive in the religion). Quote Dude, you wouldn't accept being punished for some theft that your grandfather committed 70 years ago... why would you accept -- and think proper -- god judging you for what Adam and Eve are supposed to have done? Don't you think that is a fucked up, sick way for a god to be? He's supposed to be just, fair, righteous, loving, forgiving... and yet he visits the sins of our ancestors on us AT BIRTH?! I agree, most current religions are all about power. The catholic religion gains its power through guilt over your soul. Starting from birth. I have 2 month old daughter. I get asked DAILY by my family when I'm going to baptise her. 'IF she were to die tomorrow she would go to hell!'. I'm like 'Why? Because she had a blow out and messed her car seat????' The biggest problem is my daughter is a result of my 2nd marriage. I never got an annulment (that is another joke, you can pay your way out of marriage). So, my daughter is a bastard child (as defined by the church) so she is screwed either way. Quote A god like that can go to hell, as far as I'm concerned. I'll take a shit on such a god before I'll worship it. That's just NOT RIGHT. I'll just stand over here and try to avoid the lightning heading your way Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #119 August 24, 2004 Yes, an important point-- not all Christian religions believe in original sin. Some believe that children are innocent and need not be baptized 2 days after they're born. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #120 August 24, 2004 No pedophilia references at all. Quoteor a little boy's ass. With such vast and deep knowledge of all things catholic, I'm thinking most of the opinionated folks here could write the definitive work on human nature. If only they could organize their thoughts, there clearly are no more questions to be asked, only statements to be made. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #121 August 24, 2004 QuoteThey have no qualms at all about taking it out of a little girl's hide - or a little boy's ass. Ouch! That was harsh and highly offensive. That statement is loaded with hatred. I don't believe Speaker's Corner was created for that. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #122 August 24, 2004 Here's a direct quote from BillVon. Please note what I put in bold print. Chris QuoteFrom the DZ.com rules: ------------------ Personal attacks and hate posts will not be tolerated in any forum. . . Posts that contain material that we deem to be blatantly or unnecessarily racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, pornographic, or otherwise offensive, will be removed. A member who is rude, excessively profane, or disruptive may receive a warning or may be suspended or banned immediately. ----------------- That means no comments about towelheads or sand niggers, and no gratuitious attacks on a race or religion. There is much discussion going on about the role of Islam in the Iraq war / the 9-11 attacks etc and that's fine. But a few people have been pushing the limits of that lately. This is fair warning that it won't be tolerated any more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #123 August 24, 2004 >Ouch! That was harsh and highly offensive. Agreed. I edited the original post. Tbrown, if you do want to talk about problems with the church, go ahead - but don't joke about pedophilia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #124 August 24, 2004 Dude....your Avatar is cracking me up!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #125 August 24, 2004 QuoteDude....your Avatar is cracking me up!! That was a b'day card given to me by my sister. AggieDave was nice enough to size it to be an avatar. It totally cracked me up also. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
