Catholics with wheat allergies condemned to hell.

[Zenister 0]

when religions get really picky about their rituals, you have to wonder what industry they are really supporting?

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Muenkel 0]

For someone who claims to be anti-religion, you certainly show up in a lot of "religion" threads.

_________________________________________
Chris

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Kev,

Do I have to hit your knuckles with a ruler?

Am I the only practising Catholic here?

This is the truth in regard to the article posted: There are laws regarding the Eucharist from the Vatican Council that cannot be changed unless the Pontiff changes them. Yes, it is true that the host be made from wheat. Any priest that allows anything but wheat is in disobedience to Rome. Also, it is true that priests are not permitted to give Communion to known non-Catholics. If they do, they also are in disobedience to Rome.

In regard to both species of Holy Communion...Body and Blood, both are believed to be the full body and blood of Christ. Since the girl is allergic to wheat, she can recieve Holy Communion via the consecrated wine. She has not received anything less than anyone else. For the alcoholics (yes, it is true that the alcohol properties is minute, but could be detrimental to an alcoholic) they can receive via the Host. Either way, it is believed you have received both the Body and Blood of Christ.

Blues,

Is ROME the focus of worship, or is it supposed to be God and Jesus?

Does the bible provide for the creation of a Pope, and say that he will be the final arbiter of the right and wrong way to worship God and Jesus?

I'm asking because I honestly don't know -- but I suspect not.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[jakee 1,563]

Quote

For someone who claims to be anti-religion, you certainly show up in a lot of "religion" threads

Well otherwise it would just be threads saying,

'Hey, did you know how great God is?'

'Yeah, I think he's pretty great.'

'No shit, me too! He's great Isn't He.'

And so on and so forth. Pretty boring huh?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

>They also won't let non-Catholics in general participate in their Eucharist ceremony.

The church in my home town had no problem with my wife's parents (Episcopalian) taking communion. I think it depends on the church.

The inconsistency of the Church is part of the reason it's such bullshit, all around. If it were God's true rules, they'd be the same all over the place. What if you worship where they don't have the rules quite right? You're fucked for all eternity?!

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

In regard to both species of Holy Communion...Body and Blood, both are believed to be the full body and blood of Christ. Since the girl is allergic to wheat, she can recieve Holy Communion via the consecrated wine. She has not received anything less than anyone else. For the alcoholics (yes, it is true that the alcohol properties is minute, but could be detrimental to an alcoholic) they can receive via the Host. Either way, it is believed you have received both the Body and Blood of Christ.

This has me baffled. They believe that the bread and wine are actually the FLESH and BLOOD of the man, Jesus Christ? Does that mean they're believed to truly be eating human flesh, transformed from bread and wine? I'd say that fairly makes Christians cannibals, does it not?

And the idea that alcoholics can have the communion wafer, and those with the wheat allergy can have the wine, kinda leaves out the possibility of an alcoholic having the wheat allergy as well. What does he do? Try to find a nice cozy spot in hell and make the best of it?

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Quote

There is nothing in the Bible that states the Eucharist needs to be made out of wheat.

Nothing in the Bible that I am aware of, but Catholic doctrine states that the 'bread' must be wheat based. The family had gotten her a rice based host and was later told that the communion was invalid simply due to the type of grain the host was made from.

Jen

If "catholic doctrine" does not come from the bible, or from a burning bush, then it's useless, and just the power-trip of some people who have set themselves up as the "religious elite." If it didn't come from god, how can it be legitimate? It just came from man. Hardly worth treating as divine law.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[pajarito 0]

BOOBIES!

[Zenister 0]

i've never claimed to be anti religion..its facinating subject, you learn alot about humans buy studing what they believe about divinity and how those beliefs are used by other men to control them...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[pajarito 0]

A chimpanzee can learn to recognize itself in a mirror, but monkeys can't.

[Zenister 0]

if the topic doesnt interest you, you could just not post rather than whore....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[pajarito 0]

I'm sorry Zen. I thought you were more peaceful than Jeffrey.

Out...

[Zenister 0]

i see little point in intentionally derailing a discussion simply because you don’t want to participate...but i guess its not a 'serious' forum so anyone can hijack any thread they wish...... it just always seemed juvenile to me, if the topic doesn’t interest you don’t have to post (or read) at all…thread drift and side topics are one thing, but if people are engaging in an otherwise reasonably polite discussion, why scream BOOBIES and make completely off topic posts? Seems a bit rude and disrespectful to everyone else…but that’s just my .02

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[yourmomma 0]

I'd say that fairly makes Christians cannibals, does it not?
YES

"And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine” (Isaiah 49:26). “I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another” (Zechariah 1:9). “Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm” (Isaiah 9:19-20).


“And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat” (Leviticus 26:29). “And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters” (Deuteronomy 28:53). “And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them” (Deuteronomy 28:57). “And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend” (Jeremiah 19:9).

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Quote

So why would a "perfect" God design an imperfect creature? What exactly was his purpose in doing that - just for the amusement of watching us suffer?

But taking enjoyment in the suffering of others would in itself be sinful,

Hmm, this might be true...

So then why would a perfect God design an imperfect creature??? Can anyone answer this???

There just doesn't seem to be much logic in Christianity... But then I guess that is why they rely on faith.

[CrazyIvan 0]

Quote

So then why would a perfect God design an imperfect creature??? Can anyone answer this???

I'm gonna give my opinion on this issue.

First of all, God is the creator, the allmighty and he can do and undo anything, is HIS will and no one has a say on that.

"Designing" an imperfect creature is not for God to amuse himself, but for US to endure and become better souls, so the next question would be: Why God wants that?, well, the answer is on the opening paragraph of my reply.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[billvon 3,074]

>If it were God's true rules, they'd be the same all over the place.

Well that would be pretty boring, now, wouldn't it? I mean, we have an actual US constitution, all written down and pretty clear and all, and we still bicker and fight over what it really meant. And laws still vary from state to state and from town to town. Compare that to the bible, which often contradicts itself, contains bizarre old laws that we're supposed to ignore (or not ignore, depending on your views) which has been translated a dozen times, and which has been selectively edited by generations of theologians. And that's just ONE book that describes God. I'm not suprised that we have hundreds of different religions.

[yourmomma 0]

""Compare that to the bible, which often contradicts itself,

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Quote

So then why would a perfect God design an imperfect creature??? Can anyone answer this???

I'm gonna give my opinion on this issue.

First of all, God is the creator, the allmighty and he can do and undo anything, is HIS will and no one has a say on that.

"Designing" an imperfect creature is not for God to amuse himself, but for US to endure and become better souls, so the next question would be: Why God wants that?, well, the answer is on the opening paragraph of my reply.

It seems to me that the answer to everything in Christianity (especially when presented with a problem that goes against logic) is something like "That's God's plan. It is not for us to question, only to accept and believe."

It's an easy answer for everything, but it just doesn't work for me.

[CrazyIvan 0]

Quote

It seems to me that the answer to everything in Christianity (especially when presented with a problem that goes against logic) is something like "That's God's plan. It is not for us to question, only to accept and believe."

It's an easy answer for everything, but it just doesn't work for me.

We will never be able to understand things like that, and in certain instances there will be no possible explanation to us, and even if there is one we won't be able to comprehend or even SEE it in black and white as you suggest.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[CrazyIvan 0]

Quote

Ya mean like this?

Just a reminder, but the Bible IS NOT an accurate historical document or a "transcript" of events.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

I'm sorry Zen. I thought you were more peaceful than Jeffrey.

Out...

Nobody's more peaceful than I am...

DAMMIT!!

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

>If it were God's true rules, they'd be the same all over the place.

Well that would be pretty boring, now, wouldn't it? I mean, we have an actual US constitution, all written down and pretty clear and all, and we still bicker and fight over what it really meant. And laws still vary from state to state and from town to town. Compare that to the bible, which often contradicts itself, contains bizarre old laws that we're supposed to ignore (or not ignore, depending on your views) which has been translated a dozen times, and which has been selectively edited by generations of theologians. And that's just ONE book that describes God. I'm not suprised that we have hundreds of different religions.

This is all specious above.
We're talking about GOD, who has the means to make his rules not only KNOWN by all, but UNDERSTOOD by all. He has the means to have a glowing book of his rules appear in the midst of any human settlement, readable even by the illiterate, if he so chose. He does not do so, though. And we are left with the imperfect leadership of people who actually pursue positions of power and leadership -- which by itself calls into question the legitimacy of all the edicts they issue.

I have not been satisfied by any answer to date, to the question, "How are we supposed to know who is following god's true rules?" The prime reason we don't have an answer to this is that there are no "true god's rules" because they were never issued, because the rules we have are man-contrived, because there is no actual god.

According to Occam's Razor, this is the most likely conclusion when faced with the mystery of why there are so many "gods" and so many claims of "god's rules."

You are plenty correct about how contradictory the bible is, and how bizarre it is that there are hundreds of religions, EACH one claiming to explain (with mutual exclusivity) the origins and nature of creation. I say that it is really freaky that despite all of that, members of each religious persuasion, aware of all the other types of religions, instead of doubting ALL of them, cling to THEIRS and insist it must be the right one.

Then there are people I've known who spent years, decades, believing in one religion, only to convert to another -- apparently they think that the new one explains things much better. Or maybe the rules are more comfortable to live by, I dunno. And I have to wonder what they think of the fact that they once thought the first religion had everything truly explained, and now they think that of the new religion. What if ten years go by and they find yet another religion that they think is the "right" one? Suddenly the certainty they had that the second religion was "right" dissolves, and with nary a mention of the error of having been duped by it for so long, all the while proclaiming its righteousness, they switch yet again. OR, they adopt a weird, personalized, customized AMALGAM of the several religions. Now they really can't be said to be of any particular religious persuasion, and how valid is the freako hybrid belief system they now have? That kind of thing just proves it to be a system of convenience, existing merely for mental comfort against the strain of existing on an inscrutable plane and knowing essentially nothing about who we are and why we're even here.

Blue skies,
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Quote

Ya mean like this?

Just a reminder, but the Bible IS NOT an accurate historical document or a "transcript" of events.

I'm confused. If it's not accurate or even CONSISTENT, why do people claim to know and understand it and be able to interpret it so well that they can tell others how to live by it?

If it's neither accurate nor consistent, why do people live by it at all?

I personally think it is a bunch of linguistic mishmash which, if anyone claims they truly understand it, they are simply bluffing and boasting.

I've never "read" the bible -- not in a cover-to-cover sense. I don't think you really CAN do that. You try to read that nonsensical prose and you'd finish two pages and not have any idea what the hell you just read, nor what meaning it supposedly had.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[CrazyIvan 0]

Quote

I'm confused. If it's not accurate or even CONSISTENT, why do people claim to know and understand it and be able to interpret it so well that they can tell others how to live by it?

Ok, the accuracy of facts (history) are inacurate because there are no fixed dates or even "standard" calendars, therefore the differences on when Jesus did this or that for example.

The interpretation part, is a little bit more complicated, since words can be taken in many ways, depending on the "interpreter" and that's the reason why some many religions or "sub-religions" such as Lutherans, Calvinist, Protestants, etc, because someone "didn't agree" with certain points of view and "created" a "custom" religion to fit them.

In my opinion, religion is just a way to communicate with God, let say is a "language", in which no one is right or wrong, I always use this example, let say we have an apple, and there are 3 men from different countries, one speaks English, one French and the other Spanish, they will call the apple in their native tongues...which one is REALLY saying the REAL name of the apple NONE, because they speak different languages, but regardless of that the APPLE will remain an apple.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.