juanesky 0 #26 August 26, 2004 It would be to allow France, Germany and the rest of Europe (except the UK) to take care of the situation, or the UN to take care of business for once."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #27 August 26, 2004 QuoteThe latest justification for Iraq was/is that SH was a really bad man and neaded to go. Sudan is in the middle of a genocide. Vinny, why don't you tell us what the correct course of action is to stop this genocide? Let the UN do something for once WITHOUT the US. But it does not matter what the US does...You will bitch about the US either way."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiltboy 0 #28 August 26, 2004 I'm pretty sure the UK will send some guys though god knows where they'll get them from. Aid to Sudan has been debated in Parliament recently and given that the UK sent guys to Rwanda (similar circumstances) I would expect that the UK will send some troops once the UN passes a resolution. David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #29 August 26, 2004 QuoteLet the UN do something for once WITHOUT the US. But it does not matter what the US does...You will bitch about the US either way. Hey, I am equally as pissed off at my own government for not even admitting that a genocide is taking place. Unfortunately, it is America that has taken it upon themselves to portray this illusion of being the freedom fighters of the world. Don't get all pissy when you get called on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #30 August 26, 2004 I actually see a very good reason to intervene in Sudan. It's the same reason that we should have intervened in Afganistan BEFORE 9-11. It should be done to try to limit the spread of religious extremists. History has shown that zealots are dangerous if left alone. Please don't take this as a support for invasion. That would be wrong. We should, however, use whatever means we can (sanctions, working through/with the UN, humanitarian aid) to try to help end this. I think Iraq was (and continues to be) a distraction. Iraq was contained. Right now, as you stated, we are there-and can't go away. Our destruction of the SH government in Iraq has also led to the rise of zealots in that country and we can't walk away and give the country to factions like al-Sadr controls. My gut feeling is if we did, we'd see another Taliban style regieme in no time.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #31 August 26, 2004 The correct course of action by whom? Enjoy your cookie cutters. They can actually be used for things other than foreign policy. I use mine to make cookies though, as I think that's the use for which they're best suited. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #32 August 26, 2004 QuoteThe correct course of action by whom? The US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #33 August 26, 2004 QuoteBecause there is no oil in the Suadn. Duh. Do you need a crowbar for that foot there Tink?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #34 August 26, 2004 Ah. A US plan of action with regards to Sudan? Have to do this one off the cuff. If I were President, musing on the issue...a few random thoughts. It's bordered by Chad, Libya, the Red Sea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Egypt, Congo, and maybe one other country. If the US were to intervene militarily, the Red Sea would be our most likely path of entry I would say, though given the current disposition of our military I'm not sure I would advocate it. Somalia isn't that far away and we all know what a goat-rope that was. I think the first course of action - after condemning the genocide openly - would be to urge nations in the region to take care of business in their own part of the world. Libya and Egypt both have extremely capable militaries. Putting Eritrean and Ethiopians together in some sort of multinational force would be just ASKING for trouble, but Egypt and Libya could both put some serious peacekeeping forces on the ground there. The Frenchies have always been a bit miffed that their influence in Africa has been waning, so perhaps the Frenchies could head up the peacekeeping force to make themselves feel better. I guess my preferred solution would be for the Egyptians or the Frenchies to take the lead in deploying some sort of multi-national force to Sudan. Though the nation does very tangentially have some importance to our foreign policy as a whole, it's more of an African problem (like Zimbabwe and that worthless POFS Mugabe) and Africa should take the lead in handling it. Ghadaffi says he's ready to play ball with the civilized world - this is a perfect chance for him to do just that. Once peace is established we could send grain, medical personnel, etc to the area to help out. It's high time nations other than the US took the lead in such things. That's off the cuff. I'd have to do a bit of research to go in depth on the subject - as you can see I'm barely cognizant of the geography - but think what I've outlined above would be an excellent start. I do not, however, see the parallels you're attempting to draw with regards to Iraq. Cookie cutters are for cookies - not foreign policy. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #35 August 26, 2004 QuoteI do not, however, see the parallels you're attempting to draw with regards to Iraq. Cookie cutters are for cookies - not foreign policy. Exactly there are no parallels, that is precisely the point. But then, you tend to be a little too busy slamming people to see that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #36 August 26, 2004 The Frenchies have always been a bit miffed that their influence in Africa has been waning, so perhaps the Frenchies could head up the peacekeeping force to make themselves feel better*** I think we'll pass on that one. That part of Africa is more of the Brit's problems. We'll keep ourselves busy in some other parts of Africa. Thanks for the thought though. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #37 August 27, 2004 I thought France had a major presence in Chad, an adjoining country. Am I incorrect? Just wondering - don't really know. I know there's a MAJOR French presence in Djibouti. Long ways off though. Anybody else got any ideas on what the US should do? I was just musing off the cuff. Haven't done any research or anything. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #38 August 27, 2004 Chad is indeed where the French Foreign Legion usually is, playing war games with the local government/rebels. Keeps them on edge... There is also a French contingent in Djibouti, but they are not going anywhere (they like the view of the straight!). I would agree that the UN should get involved in Sudan. That way everyone pitches in. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #39 August 27, 2004 THanks dude! I thought I was losing my mind for a bit. Beers, Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #40 August 27, 2004 "Anybody else got any ideas on what the US should do? " Be very, very, very careful. Africa has seen many empires try to exert influence on it, those empires are long gone, yet Africa prevails. Y'all tread carefully in providing military training and assistance to places like Chad, Niger, Mali, Mauritania, etc. (google the "Pan-Sahel" initiative) But hey, Sir Mark Thatcher, the iron lady's wee boy, is currently under house arrest in SA for alegedly funding a coup in Equatorial Guinnea. So it seems our lot are not done fiddling with the dark continent either.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #41 August 27, 2004 So it seems our lot are not done fiddling with the dark continent either*** That could apply to the French as well. Paid the price, still paying it (Senegal?), and waiting for the ante to be raised (I think Algeria still has some left for us...). Indeed, not only colonialism, but all the war games played there have greatly bit us back in the ass... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #42 August 27, 2004 The Cold War initiatives on both sides of the fence with respect to that continent had some atrocious effects. They're still being felt. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #43 August 27, 2004 QuoteBut then, you tend to be a little too busy slamming people to see that. Pot, meet Kettle. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #44 August 27, 2004 QuoteBut hey, Sir Mark Thatcher, the iron lady's wee boy, is currently under house arrest in SA for alegedly funding a coup in Equatorial Guinnea. Apparently he missed the part in the instructions where you get the police and military on your side before attempt a coup. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #45 August 27, 2004 "he missed the part in the instructions where you get the police and military on your side" Should have listened to his mommy, she used the police to good effect to crush the miners, and suppress various other legitimate protests, google poll tax riots for example. Actually, I reckon he thought he was supporting toppling the Taliban. Personally, I hope he gets what is coming, if he's guilty of course.......-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites