Another flip-flop

[livendive 8]

FLIP "One of the interesting things people ask me, now that we are asking questions, is, 'Can you ever win the war on terror?' Of course you can." George W. Bush, April 13, 2004

FLOP In response to Matt Lauer's question of whether the war on terror can be won: ""I don't think you can win it, but I think you can create conditions so that those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world." George W. Bush, August 28, 2004

AND ANOTHER FLIP And backpeddling away from that statement:
"We meet today in a time of war for our country, a war we did not start yet one that we will win." George W. Bush, August 31, 2004

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Frenchy68 0]

He should start his statements with: "READ MY LIPS"...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Jib 0]

I don't see the flip-flop. It's not like he said I support something and then does not, like Kerry.

I think he's trying to say the same thing in different ways. We can't stop terrorism completely, but we can do our best and to make it hard to flourish. I would consider that a win. Unless you're trying to say that Kerry's going to win the war on terrorism and if so, how?

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[freeflydrew 0]

of course you can win, and i don't think it can be won is a flip flop... bush flip flops, and so does kerry... the subject has been over discussed. One is the president, one wants to be the president, both are flip floppers.

[livendive 8]

You mean like when he said on September 29, 2000 that he would "work with Congress, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Department of Energy, consumer and environmental groups and industry to develop legislation that will … establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide.”

Would that be the flip to his flop on March 13, 2003, when he said ""I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act,"?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Trent 0]

Not to Drew really, but I wanted to say it....

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bush flip flops, and so does kerry

NO, GWB does not flip flop... he changes his stance based on new information. It is a sign of intelligence and open-mindedness.

OH WAIT, that defense only works if it's used for Kerry, right? If Bush does it, it's a Flip-Flop.

Oh, hello again!

[freeflydrew 0]

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Not to Drew really, but I wanted to say it....

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bush flip flops, and so does kerry

NO, GWB does not flip flop... he changes his stance based on new information. It is a sign of intelligence and open-mindedness.

OH WAIT, that defense only works if it's used for Kerry, right? If Bush does it, it's a Flip-Flop.

I think it's safe to say that both men have changed their minds based on new information, are relaively open-minded, and both are intelligent.
It's also safe to say that both men, have in fact, flip flopped at some point or another

(Hi trent)

[pajarito 0]

So what do you think and do you disagree with what Bush said? Do you think that this war is winnable in the conventional sense? Do you think there is a conventional enemy with front lines drawn and territory to be occupied? Do you think that there might be a treaty signed with an official leader ending the terrorist strikes against us? Or is it logical to think that this war is an ongoing thing and that our only option is to continually keep our guard up and destroy as much of the enemy structure as we can so as to keep them at a disadvantage. I know the Libs are trying to make a play on words here but, if one thinks about it, it makes perfect sense what Bush said.

[livendive 8]

I wasn't making a comment one way or the other on the issue, but simply pointing out the more dramatic type of flip-flop (actual words as opposed to the more misleading voting record type).

You're telling me that the following statements make perfect sense to you and do not represent a flip-flop?

"Of course we can win."
"I don't think we can win."
"We will win."

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[pajarito 0]

Put into context, probably. I know that we are winning the war. Can we win by doing what we're doing? Yes. If we keep fighting back and never quit. Will there be a final declaration of victory? Probably not. It's just not that kind of war. Will it end? I don't think so until we raise the general collective education levels of the peoples of the world. I think most of the violence from the extremists in that area of the world is born out of ignorance of even their own doctrine.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Put into context, probably.

Why not try doing that with the claims of flip flopping by Kerry?

[pajarito 0]

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Why not try doing that with the claims of flip flopping by Kerry?

I thought we were discussing GWB in this one. I guess the Libs are just scrambling for the "I know you are but what am I" defense.

[PhillyKev 0]

You're right, sorry. I'll get back on track.

Bush is a big fat liar

[pajarito 0]

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You're right, sorry. I'll get back on track.

Bush is a big fat liar

That's more like it...

[kallend 2,106]

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Why not try doing that with the claims of flip flopping by Kerry?

I thought we were discussing GWB in this one. I guess the Libs are just scrambling for the "I know you are but what am I" defense.

You want Bush? OK

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI



"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, resonding to a question about bin Laden,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

* * *

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PhillyKev 0]

Or these.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1216254#1216254

[jumper03 0]

How about this one I posted a few weeks ago -

Even though experts say "diverting any water from the Great Lakes region sets a bad precedent" Bush "said he wants to talk to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien about piping water to parched states in the west and southwest." He said, "A lot of people don't need [the water], but when you head South and West, we do need it."
- AP, 7/19/01; Bush statement, 7/18/01

"We've got to use our resources wisely, like water. It starts with keeping the Great Lakes water in the Great Lakes Basin. (Applause.) You might remember what my opponent said earlier this year about Great Lakes water diversion. He said it would be a delicate balancing act. It sounds just like him. My position is clear: We're never going to allow diversion of Great Lakes water."
- President Bush, 8/16/04

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Scars remind us that the past is real

[pajarito 0]

Nnaa...nnaa...nnaa...blah...blah...blah..."Bush wins in 04."...nnaa...naaa...blah...blah...

[crwtom 0]

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I don't see the flip-flop. It's not like he said I support something and then does not, like Kerry.

Oh really - the boy got into office preaching the forgein policy of
the "humble nation", international disinvolvement and dispised
any kind of nation building.

Now he's started a war and is up to his eye-balls in a (horridly disorgaized)
nation building adventure - of choice, with no urgency in comparision other
issues and a deliberateness unprecendented in US history -, that (at least
following the PNAC dudes in his Admin) is supposed to create a new oder
in the arab world.

If this is not a monumental FLIP-FLOP then what is?

(and don't give me the "9/11 changed everything" blah blah - Iraq had no
connection and if anyhting 9/11 should have changed the priorities of
allocation of resources away from Iraq)

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Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[Jib 0]

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(and don't give me the "9/11 changed everything" blah blah - Iraq had no
connection and if anyhting 9/11 should have changed the priorities of
allocation of resources away from Iraq)

Okay, 9/11 never happened.
Where should the resources go than to detering other countries from aiding terrorists?

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[crwtom 0]

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Okay, 9/11 never happened.


that appears to be the perception of GWB - who uses 9/11 it only for
propaganda and allocates resources into his pet projects like Iraq.

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Where should the resources go than to detering other countries from aiding terrorists?

right exactly - that's where the resources are NOT mainly going into now.

countries involved mainly in terrorist are Afghanistan, Sudan, Pakistan,
Iran, Saudi-Arabia (as well as to some extend Egypt, Philliphines etc).
In Afghanistan at best a fifth of the troop strengh of Iraq is present,
barely anything beyond the outskirts of Kabul are secured, and the
mountain area toward Pakistan is still the good old no-mans land.
Osama is still at large and the operatives they foudn have long been easily
replaced with the free propaganda coming out of DC.

The much bemoaned lack of human intelligence and lack of coopreration
in crack-downs in the other govts has gotten worse and extremely sticky
b/c of an international climate that's basically down a shit-hole after Iraq.

The invasion did exactly nothing to curb terrorism - and did a lot to propel it.
(especially within the shooting gallery of Iraq of course)

GWB was told by many about that before hand and decided it didn't matter.

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

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