funks 1 #1 September 1, 2004 I just saw the video of the 12 nepalese being murdered, just wrong, just plain fucking wrong. I say 48 hours for all friendlies to get out and then turn that entire part of the world into a freakin parking lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #2 September 1, 2004 Whoaah, sorry people...just noticed which forum this was posted to...can a greenie move asap..thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #3 September 1, 2004 How about posting it here?__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #4 September 1, 2004 Iva, Funks beat you to it! I agree that that is so F-ed up stuffMy photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #5 September 1, 2004 For those who want to view the 4 minute tape you can see it at http://www.ogrish.com/ This is absolutely NSFW and definitely not for the weak of heart. Make sure no children are present. If you remotely have a weak stomach do not view. You will see a link under, 'Latest Breaking News' or something like that. The website itself is not one I condone. It's just one of the few places that shows it. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #6 September 1, 2004 MUTHA fukers!!! THAT IS PURELY INSANE. they were just Contractors. and yet we habe people crying over the treatment of these same criminals when they are captured! I say do what we need to do to get any info out of them to prevent this from happening agaiNMy photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #7 September 1, 2004 Quoteand yet we habe people crying over the treatment of these same criminals when they are captured! I say do what we need to do to get any info out of them to prevent this from happening agaiN That is a completely logical solution. Unfortunately there are those (mainly liberals) who would scream from the mountain tops and rush to their defense if we remotely thought about harming a hair on their head. This thinking is simply a matter of people not knowing how the real world works. Don't fear though. Torturing does go on amongst certain military units in certain situations to obtain intelligence if that said intelligence is deemd to be urgent and of great importance despite what you will hear. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srg 0 #8 September 1, 2004 QuoteMUTHA fukers!!! THAT IS PURELY INSANE. they were just Contractors. and yet we habe people crying over the treatment of these same criminals when they are captured! I say do what we need to do to get any info out of them to prevent this from happening agaiN In all fairness, the government claims no obligation to show that the people it's capturing and mistreating are "these same criminals". In the absense of that, we're just doing the same things they are. I understand your feelings. Watching that video makes me want to turn sand into glass all over that region. I won't make policy on that basis, however. Imagine how you'd feel if there were Iraqi soldiers swarming all over the US with pictures like Abu Ghraib coming out of our prisons. John Ashcroft has stated, on the record, that even if the detainees at Guantanamo are eventually given trials, and even if they are found not guilty that most of them will probably never be released. If you want to enforce the rules of law or decency, you have to be willing to follow them yourself, even if your opponents are not. I'm not trying to condone what these asshats are doing - just trying to make it clearer why the average Iraqi is reluctant to risk his own life to stop them. Until that changes, we can't fix this problem. "Be braver -- you can't cross a chasm in two small jumps." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #9 September 1, 2004 QuoteIn all fairness, the government claims no obligation to show that the people it's capturing and mistreating are "these same criminals". In the absense of that, we're just doing the same things they are. I understand your feelings. Watching that video makes me want to turn sand into glass all over that region. I won't make policy on that basis, however. Imagine how you'd feel if there were Iraqi soldiers swarming all over the US with pictures like Abu Ghraib coming out of our prisons. John Ashcroft has stated, on the record, that even if the detainees at Guantanamo are eventually given trials, and even if they are found not guilty that most of them will probably never be released. If you want to enforce the rules of law or decency, you have to be willing to follow them yourself, even if your opponents are not. I'm not trying to condone what these asshats are doing - just trying to make it clearer why the average Iraqi is reluctant to risk his own life to stop them. Until that changes, we can't fix this problem. oh man Im getting sucked into this convo !LOL I agree with you that we have to set and enforce the standards etc. but those that are murdering innocent civilian contractors are stating by their actions that they do not deserve the human right that they took from those who are not involved in this war. I dont agree weith abu Griab either that mostly seems like high school hazing to me. but that is no comparison to what these terrorist have done to thier victims. there ar epoeple out there that would scrsam about shinging a brite light in the face of our enemy during an interrogation. there has to be some understanding of by those people that this is not a damn tea party. "Those same criminals" want to see all of us die in that fashion. what kinda of world do you think they would create if they ruled it?My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #10 September 1, 2004 that this is not a damn tea party*** And damned right you are. But we are the ones acting like it is business as usual. Drop bombs, send tanks, etc... We can go that way for decades. It won't make a fucking difference. Nuking them? Sure, why not. Spraying bugs has kept bugs from re-appearing ever again. Hasn't it? Unfortunately, (but hopefully not), this may only be a start... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #11 September 1, 2004 sure , certainly we will 'liberate' the Iraqis with a nuke right? kill 'em all and let God sort them out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #12 September 1, 2004 All the more reason why we must not relent against these assholes. No ceasefires, no hesitation, no mercy. Wipe them off the face of the earth. They deserve no less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #13 September 1, 2004 The real trick is to avoid wiping the good guys off the face of the earth alongside the bad guys. When we can't make that basic distinction, we need to be careful, lest we become the things we hate the most.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #14 September 1, 2004 QuoteThe real trick is to avoid wiping the good guys off the face of the earth alongside the bad guys. When we can't make that basic distinction, we need to be careful, lest we become the things we hate the most. Good intel coupled with highly trained Special Ops who understand and are capable of precise and discriminating warfare. We have the tools. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #15 September 1, 2004 This obscene murder is just one more reason - not that we needed any - that the US cannot negotiate with these evil sonsofbitches. We must destroy them. Those men had families & friends - people who loved them. Disgusting. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #16 September 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe real trick is to avoid wiping the good guys off the face of the earth alongside the bad guys. When we can't make that basic distinction, we need to be careful, lest we become the things we hate the most. Good intel coupled with highly trained Special Ops who understand and are capable of precise and discriminating warfare. We have the tools. Oh. I thought we were overwhelmed by "Bad Intel"... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #17 September 1, 2004 QuoteGood intel coupled with highly trained Special Ops who understand and are capable of precise and discriminating warfare. We have the tools. QuoteOh. I thought we were overwhelmed by "Bad Intel" We have the best trained troops in the world. Our CIA is stocked with the highest quality people. The organization was strap hung for years, however, and has to be rebuilt. It takes a long time to get people deeply embedded to the point where they can provide actionable intel on the highest valued targets. If politicians don't emphasize our defense, we will grow weaker and more vulnerable as was witnessed during the Clinton years. I hope the lesson was learned and won't be repeated in the event that Kerry should win (Oh, the horror...). We do have the tools. They just have to be put into action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #18 September 1, 2004 QuoteI just saw the video of the 12 nepalese being murdered, just wrong, ever wonder why non-US nationals are targeted so much more (certainly at least in proportion) than US nationals. Spanish, Polish, S Korean, Italian, Nepalease, Phillipinies, Bulgarians, (and even now the French) etc. are just a tiny fraction of who's in Iraq but get kidnapped and their heads cut severed off a heck lot more often. It really shouldn't be hard to grasp that this is a tactic to isolate the US as the only invasion and occupying power, thereby strip off all interational legitimacy and make them look more and more like colonialists. That's wondeful for tapping into the main stream muslim world for recruitment. And there you have one thing the terrorists and the Bush Admin have in common - the just love US-unilateralism. Surely some AlQuaeda have sent Cheney a thank-you note already for giving them such a good head-start. ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #19 September 1, 2004 QuoteIt really shouldn't be hard to grasp that this is a tactic to isolate the US as the only invasion and occupying power, thereby strip off all interational legitimacy and make them look more and more like colonialists. The guys that killed the Nepalese are also the guys who are holding the French hostages. That is not the case with this group. Nabbing hostages is just a way to get notoriety in the world press. They can position themselves as players by affecting decisions of western governments. That attracts funding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #20 September 1, 2004 Am I the only one that thinks that the world press should NOT run stories and distribute the video and demands of people taking hostages like this? Unless that stops, they will keep taking hostages and killing them because it brings them attention. I'll argue that allowing these stories to run is detrimental to the safety of all military and civilians in the middle east. This isn't about free speech. Al-Jazeera should be shut down every time it THINKS about running these stories. Go ahead and tell me I'm unAmerican for wanting to limit free speech. Tell me that people have a right to know what's going on. Then realize you're putting a news-story ahead of the rights of the people who have been, and will be kidnapped.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #21 September 1, 2004 Quote Nabbing hostages is just a way to get notoriety in the world press. They can position themselves as players by affecting decisions of western governments. That attracts funding. Actually, it serves as recruiting propaganda. They get to show the folks back home how tough and courageous they are (yes, I know it's ridiculous, but you need an understanding of the Arab mind to appreciate their point of view: they perceive themselves as so inferior to the West in every way, that all blame for EVERYTHING that is wrong with Islamic / Arab society is due to external influence / interference [historically speaking, that is very valid, but I'm not talking about the Crusades. Have a look at the history of Iraq in the early 20th Century, and the post-WWI conference at Damascus, for some egregious examples]) and is projected onto others. Hence, decapitating innocents is perceived as a way of showing that they are 'somebody', and "Getting Even". Go figure). The most radical of the radical don't care what kind of reaction they get outside their own sicko enclaves - this butchery is mostly for internal consumption (don't forget that it also serves to intimidate their own, as in 'this is what you'll get if you don't toe the line'). Even devout Moslems are revolted by their behavior, but they don't really care. They aren't even about liberating Iraq, although that is a focus for the moment. These nutjobs want to export jihad all over the world, and convert EVERYONE, willing or not, to Wahabbism. This, in a nutshell, is the pathology of their cultural illness. Decapitating Nepali cooks is just a symptom... ...but I'd like to see them try to take on the Gurkhas... mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #22 September 1, 2004 (Not replying to anyone in particular) Remember that Iraq is a country of 25 million people. The actions of any 200 people do not represent the rest. People who are trying to restore stability to Iraq are probably as distressed as outsiders when viewing these events. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #23 September 1, 2004 Quote(Not replying to anyone in particular) Remember that Iraq is a country of 25 million people. The actions of any 200 people do not represent the rest. People who are trying to restore stability to Iraq are probably as distressed as outsiders when viewing these events. Question is out of those 25 million how many support the actions of the 200? I bet you would come to find that it is a surprisingly high number. Just because someone doesnt pull the trigger it doesnt mean they arent guilty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #24 September 1, 2004 QuoteQuestion is out of those 25 million how many support the actions of the 200? I bet you would come to find that it is a surprisingly high number. Just because someone doesnt pull the trigger it doesnt mean they arent guilty. You are probably right, there may be a lot that may support their goals. I'm not sure how many would support the technique, just because it de-stabilizes the environment. The person-in-the-street may just want a normal life, not dodging bullets every day. It has to be a stress to worry that if you disagree, someone will snatch you. Also, this group has some French hostages. The French built some palaces for SH and opposed the war. Seems like they would not want to cause tension with a country that maintains a marginally supportive relationship. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #25 September 1, 2004 QuoteQuote(Not replying to anyone in particular) Remember that Iraq is a country of 25 million people. The actions of any 200 people do not represent the rest. People who are trying to restore stability to Iraq are probably as distressed as outsiders when viewing these events. Question is out of those 25 million how many support the actions of the 200? I bet you would come to find that it is a surprisingly high number. Just because someone doesnt pull the trigger it doesnt mean they arent guilty. One of the most influential books I've ever read is P.J. O'Rourke's "Holidays in Hell". It is a compilation of magazine articles he wrote after traveling to various hot spots, e.g. Lebanon, Nicaragua, the Philipines, etc. What stands out is a common thread in all of these places: The violence is always perpetuated by a small group of young, poor, uneducated, single males. Meanwhile the vast majority of the population has no interest in participating in the violence, but is just trying to survive and make the best of a miserable situation. After interviewing the head of the Philipine rebel group, he commented, "Given the choice between getting married and spending my days plowing fields behind a water buffalo, versus running around the hills with a machine gun and sleeping with ideology-addled college girls...Yeah! I'd choose the latter, too!" If you are going to judge a large population based on the acts of a few, then you may as well judge the United States based on the acts of our white supremicists, or our inner city gangsta's."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
