Navy Challenging Kerry's Medals

[jazzjumper 0]

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I just went to Kerry's website and he's posted PDF copies of his citations. He doesn't claim to have the SS w/V, but instead claims to have the BS w/ V.

Me too. Not sure where the claim to have a valor device on a SS is presented. My dad has a BS with valor, so I know they are valid.

Again, I'm just sourcing the article as interesting. The truth is still yet to come.

No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is
sick of her shit!

[PhillyKev 0]

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Nope, not institutionally. But we do vote.

That's a good thing. I'm talking about military officials in their official capacity taking sides. Why aren't they investigating if GWB was AWOL?

[kallend 2,026]

What have they (Bush and Kerry) done for me in the last 4 years?

I don't particularly care if Kerry played JFK wannabe and Bush got drunk and sold bags of coke 30+ years ago.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jazzjumper 0]

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That's a good thing. I'm talking about military officials in their official capacity taking sides. Why aren't they investigating if GWB was AWOL?

They did. The Pentagon first stated the pay records were destroyed inadvertantly. A few days later they came back with those records found...proving he wasn't AWOL.

BTW, it's funny that the LIBs are constantly waving Bush's AWOL from Guard duty. They have no idea what constitutes being AWOL from Guard duty, and how a military member is placed in that status. And because you guys keeps bringing it up, it makes those of us who do laugh even harder!

He doesn't have to prove he wasn't AWOL, it has to be proven that he was (which the pay records don't support.)

No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is
sick of her shit!

[turtlespeed 220]

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What have they (Bush and Kerry) done for me in the last 4 years?

Excellent question.

We'll start with the number of Security council meetings that Kerry has attended in the last year.

Please answer before trying to skirt around the question. Just because I know - doesn't mean that everyone else does.

feel free to retort after you have answered.

(I hav a cas ov hecantspellstuff)

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jazzjumper 0]

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What have they (Bush and Kerry) done for me in the last 4 years?

Kerry? Nothing unless you live in Mass. Bush, kept another huge terror attack from occuring.

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I don't particularly care if Kerry played JFK wannabe and Bush got drunk and sold bags of coke 30+ years ago.

Funny, I'd buy the first two premises, but the third is just a grenade.

No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is
sick of her shit!

[wmw999 2,445]

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Kerry? Nothing unless you live in Mass. Bush, kept another huge terror attack from occuring

Kerry represents Mass right now; while it'd be hard to say he's done nothing else, that is his primary job.

What evidence do you have that Bush's decisions prevented another huge attack? Or are you surmising that?

I don't think Kerry has been a great senator; however, I do think that Bush's actions are ruinous in the long run for our reputation as a country, and for our ability to work with other countries in the long run.

When everyone is scared of you, they spend their time trying to circumvent you rather than face you -- less gets done in the long run. Unless you're a fairly extreme form of isolationist, we need other countries. They manufacture things that we use.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jazzjumper 0]

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Kerry represents Mass right now; while it'd be hard to say he's done nothing else, that is his primary job.

Right, that was my point.

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What evidence do you have that Bush's decisions prevented another huge attack? Or are you surmising that?

A little of both. Dead men cannot attack. I do recall (though I'd have to research it) hearing that a large number of incidents had been foiled since 9-11.

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I don't think Kerry has been a great senator; however,

Agreed.

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I do think that Bush's actions are ruinous in the long run for our reputation as a country, and for our ability to work with other countries in the long run.

Well, if it's our survival or reputation, I pick survival first. He is constitutionally bound to do just that, and I applaud that.

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When everyone is scared of you, they spend their time trying to circumvent you rather than face you -- less gets done in the long run. Unless you're a fairly extreme form of isolationist, we need other countries. They manufacture things that we use.

Agreed, but we have to exist first, and then build better relationships later. The argument is on how best to do that...but the point would be moot if our economy is destroyed by terrorist attacks (both physically and psychologically.)

No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is
sick of her shit!

[Jimbo 0]

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No, but he is touting his service and his record as credentials to be President.

Has Kerry -ever- touted his record in the Senate as credentials to be President?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[jazzjumper 0]

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Has Kerry -ever- touted his record in the Senate as credentials to be President?

Wow, hell, if we skydivers can come up with this question why can't the mainstream media? The answer is self evident. If he runs on his senatorial credentials, he's DOA.

No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is
sick of her shit!

[PhillyKev 0]

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Bush, kept another huge terror attack from occuring.

I bang pots and pans together every night at 11:10PM to keep another terror attack from happening. There hasn't been one, so I take full credit.

[kallend 2,026]

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Bush, kept another huge terror attack from occuring.

I bang pots and pans together every night at 11:10PM to keep another terror attack from happening. There hasn't been one, so I take full credit.

I find that tearing up sheets of white paper does the job, and keeps the elephants out of my yard too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jazzjumper 0]

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Bush, kept another huge terror attack from occuring.

I bang pots and pans together every night at 11:10PM to keep another terror attack from happening. There hasn't been one, so I take full credit.

I find that tearing up sheets of white paper does the job, and keeps the elephants out of my yard too.

Awesome....you guys keep that up until the terrorist and elephant threats are gone.

No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is
sick of her shit!

[wmw999 2,445]

Deplorable as the attack on the WTC was (and it was deplorable -- I'm not given to strong words, so don't read anything into that choice), it was not enough to terminate government. The advantage that the US has, with its long history of an orderly democracy, is that we can survive a lot of stuff, and remain the US.

I completely reject that we would cease to exist as a country had we not had GWB as president. I think that's ludicrous. And yes, the hijackers are dead. Of course, they did that themselves.

We have not taken out enough serious al-Qaeda operatives to say that we're fighting them directly. We're not fighting them seriously in Afghanistan, we're letting Pakistan go after them. So it's specious to say that the disruption of al-Qaeda is our primary goal. If it were, we would be focusing on that instead of Iraq.

Iraq had a terrible government, no doubt. But they were not a direct threat to our survival in the same way that al-Qaeda is, and al-Qaeda wasn't getting a significant amount of funding from Iraq as far as any unbiased source can say.

I'd like to see the research on the large number of attacks foiled since then. I doubt it, personally. I think the claim that it's survival is one made simply to justify the actions taken, and is not based on reality.

Survival is not the same as impact, and I'm definitely willing to suffer some impact to maintain my long-term safety within a system, rather than my overwhelming (but probably temporary) strength outside of it. The US beat the USSR in the cold war by making it so that the USSR had to spend more money than it could afford to in the long run. I see us doing the same thing on this war against terror (as we're conducting it), and I hope that doesn't bankrupt us and leave us vulnerable because no one is watching our back.

BTW, I also don't think Kerry has been a poor senator -- just not an incredible standout. He's in Kennedy's shadow, and that's a mighty big shadow. I'm sure you think that Kennedy is evil incarnate, but he does a great job of representing the interests of Massachusetts voters.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Steel 0]

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If true that Kerry is lying about that, is he the first? Are you telling me he's the only person who ever lied about getting medals in war? If not, then why do you suppose they would investigate him?
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Perhaps for the same reason you jumped on the band wagon trying to destroy Rush for abusing PRESCRIPTION drugs. Like you would have really cared if some liberal would have done this. No you, just like the majority of liberals hate Rush and will do anything you possibly can to discredit him. Well the military is no different. Do you think they are stupid? Do you think that they don't know that a Kerry administration is just about the worst possible thing that could happen for the military? Sure there is a significant minority of military people that are that are so far into their left ideology that they can stick their heads in the sand and deny it. But most military folk are not that stupid. Why do you think Gore's team tried so hard in the 2000 election to get the over seas ballots thrown away. Because he knew they were military and 80% of military votes Republican. They don't want to vote for somebody who is out to screw them.
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Do you think the military should take sides in elections?

I think the military has every right to look out for its own interests and that clearly means letting people know what Kerry's true military record was.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Perhaps for the same reason you jumped on the band wagon trying to destroy Rush for abusing PRESCRIPTION drugs. Like you would have really cared if some liberal would have done this. No you, just like the majority of liberals hate Rush and will do anything you possibly can to discredit him.

Ummmm...no I didn't.

[jazzjumper 0]

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I completely reject that we would cease to exist as a country had we not had GWB as president. I think that's ludicrous. And yes, the hijackers are dead. Of course, they did that themselves.

I never said that about GWB, but given the options (Gore or Kerry) the right man in my view is doing the job.

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We have not taken out enough serious al-Qaeda operatives to say that we're fighting them directly.

As far as dead guys, I mean the 3000+ Al Quaida that have woken up dead can't hurt us anymore. How many is enough? All of them, I say.

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We're not fighting them seriously in Afghanistan, we're letting Pakistan go after them. So it's specious to say that the disruption of al-Qaeda is our primary goal. If it were, we would be focusing on that instead of Iraq.

We are fighting them seriously. I have friends there right now. Pakistan is doing their work in Pakistan, we are doing it in Afghanistan.

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Iraq had a terrible government, no doubt. But they were not a direct threat to our survival in the same way that al-Qaeda is, and al-Qaeda wasn't getting a significant amount of funding from Iraq as far as any unbiased source can say.

There were training there, and we took out three of their camps in the north.

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The US beat the USSR in the cold war by making it so that the USSR had to spend more money than it could afford to in the long run.

Yes, but that is apples and oranges. There were borders and known weapons in that arena, as well as a government to deal with. They just wanted to spread communism. However, islamic terrorists want us dead, period.

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BTW, I also don't think Kerry has been a poor senator -- just not an incredible standout. He's in Kennedy's shadow, and that's a mighty big shadow. I'm sure you think that Kennedy is evil incarnate, but he does a great job of representing the interests of Massachusetts voters.

Well, I think the people of Mass must like them both because they continue to re-elect them. However, since in 19 years Kerry has authored nor coauthored any serious legislation. He has missed 76% of the votes this past year. Now if the people of Mass think that is cool, it's for them to deal with. As far as Kennedy and Kerry? They both amuse me. I could care less what they do in Mass. I do care what they do that affects the rest of the US, and it's why I'm totally against Kerry for President.

No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is
sick of her shit!

[Steel 0]

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Perhaps for the same reason you jumped on the band wagon trying to destroy Rush for abusing PRESCRIPTION drugs. Like you would have really cared if some liberal would have done this. No you, just like the majority of liberals hate Rush and will do anything you possibly can to discredit him.

Ummmm...no I didn't.

for some reason I can't find this in a search right now. But I specifically remember the second the story broke, you being the first person to post it on dz.com, well I can't swear by it cause I can find the post right now. But if I recall correctly you said something along the lines of, I can't wait to see what scandal is going to break out on O'reilly. If indeed it wasn't you then it was some other liberal here. In any case the point would be the same, just it wouldn't have been you. In that case I am sorry for misquoting you.
cheers

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[wmw999 2,445]

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In that case I am sorry for misquoting you

Oh don't worry -- he probably thought it , and that's enough. Or something like that.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Frenchy68 0]

There were training there, and we took out three of their camps in the north.***

If I am not mistaken, group such as Ansar-Al-Islam were strongly opposed to Sadam. They were smart enough to base their camps in the Mountainous part of the Northern No-Fly zone, preventing Sadam from acting effectively against them. Not that Sadam was fighting terrorism: he was exterminating whomever opposed him. And Ansar was among its enemies.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[PhillyKev 0]

Nope, wasn't me. As a matter of fact, I think drugs should be legal and could care less if Rush Limbaugh does them. I did comment about how great it was that his hypocrisy was exposed since he frequently stated that all drug addicts should be executed.

And back to the point. How can you compare what I post on DZ.com to the exposed interests of a gov't entity in control of the most fire power in the world?

[turtlespeed 220]

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Bush, kept another huge terror attack from occuring.

I bang pots and pans together every night at 11:10PM to keep another terror attack from happening. There hasn't been one, so I take full credit.

So lets see here

a) if people are treated badly in prison - it is bushes fault
b) even though he took steps and implemented more security after 9-11 it has nothing to do with Bush that we haven't had any more attacks.

Hmmm -

So if i follow your line of thinking: If it's a good thing - the president - had nothing to do with it - could - just no way.

BUT - if it is bad - it is directly his fault.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[mnischalke 0]

or could it be:

C) Our involvement in the war in Iraq has concentrated the terrorists in one country, where they feel they can do the most harm, to both our people (troops and civilian workers) and our reputation when the world realizes we can't win.

Personally, I like C, because our guard is up and we can fight them on somewhat even ground. I certainly don't like the idea of Al-Qaeda overrunning a school right down the road from my house. I'd much rather they stay over there and try to do their worst. Eventually, we'll get their numbers down to a manageable level.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[PhillyKev 0]

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a) if people are treated badly in prison - it is bushes fault

Nope, I never once said that and have spoken up supporting Bush in that regard saying that he was not responsible.

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b) even though he took steps and implemented more security after 9-11 it has nothing to do with Bush that we haven't had any more attacks.

No more so than sending cruise missiles after OBL after the bombing in 1994 kept us safe for 7 years.

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So if i follow your line of thinking: If it's a good thing - the president - had nothing to do with it - could - just no way.

BUT - if it is bad - it is directly his fault.

No, but if I follow your line of thinking, when I criticize the actions of the gov't, I'm being partisan and it has nothing to do with what I think is right or wrong. Isn't it possible that I think what he does is wrong and criticize him for that?

[Zenister 0]

actually if Kerry is claiming he received medals he did not the Navy is perfectly justified in reviewing the records to see what was awarded. What they cannot do is review the why as that decision was made by his commanding officer at the time, and if approved (merited or otherwise, i'm not going to get into the merits of anyone’s awards) are official.

one would hope that Kerry isn’t stupid enough to claim medals that were never awarded, but he is a politician so there is no telling...

unless of course any real evidence was accidentally destroyed, then the mudslinging innuendo can really commence...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.