Sinkster 0 #51 September 13, 2004 check out this animated example of the authenticity of the memo's: click here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #52 September 13, 2004 ROFLMAO. That's great. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #53 September 13, 2004 Thanks, Sinkster. That was funny indeed. I guess my point is that there is so much information in addition to the typeface issue that it just piles and piles up. I wonder...who'd do something like that? And how far up does the culpability go? All the way to Kerry? McAuliffe? Hrm... Well, it took CBS' 60 Minutes 2 years to address the last issue regarding fake memos, so I guess we'll hear in 2006? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #54 September 13, 2004 QuoteHere is why I doubt the veracity of the memos aside from the whole superscript question. Yea, well they had the IBM Selectric back then, so all your little facts mean nothing. Just ask Kallend. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #55 September 13, 2004 Are you as worried as I am about some of our liberal posters and what will happened to them after November? Depression, hallucinations, drinking...some of these boys may never be the same. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 333 #56 September 13, 2004 QuoteAre you as worried as I am about some of our liberal posters and what will happened to them after November? Depression, hallucinations, drinking...some of these boys may never be the same. Nah, I already have those, so I'll probably just be the same. Thanks, though. What we need here is a good conspiracy theory, so I'll offer this one: some clever Republican created the document and foisted it off on the media dunderheads, knowing that eventually it would be shot down, making them look the fools they are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #57 September 13, 2004 QuoteAre you as worried as I am about some of our liberal posters and what will happened to them after November? Depression, hallucinations, drinking...some of these boys may never be the same. Yes, I am a little worried. Most of them will continue to function in life, although a little more bitter, but some of the far-lefters may go through some real low times. I hope they understand counseling is available in most areas. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #58 September 13, 2004 I'll one-up you. What if someone working secretly for Bush leaked this forged material to Kerry camp posing annonymously. Kerry's camp, being the tools they are leak it in turn to CBS since they know they're a leftist network with no morals or sense of professionalism. CBS, being the biased liberals they are, fail to do the appropriate investigation to make sure it's legit. Why? Because they got the shark mentality. They were sharks swimming in the political waters and saw blood (the memos) and lost all form of common sense and just blindly ran with it. Stranger things have happened. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #59 September 13, 2004 The good news for the libs is when Bush wins in November, they will have 4 more years of 'material.' Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #60 September 13, 2004 QuoteBut it's not war time -- I heard Bush declare a year ago that the war was over. Besides, the Iraq war (not the Afghan one) is one of his own making. Sure it is. He declared an end to the major offensive operations (which is exactly what he said.) The "Mission Accomplished" banner is something that many CVNs display when they come back to port. It's not like Bush's handlers said "Put that sign up!" We are still fighting the war on terrorism. And I do recall 14 UN resolutions against Iraq that they ignored. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #61 September 13, 2004 Okay, see this is why I believe it's a complete fake. Now, you could say that an IBM Selectric cold duplicate this...but come on now! That is TOO close. Thanks for posting this! No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #62 September 13, 2004 Quote Maybe I'll scan and post a page from my PhD thesis. I typed it (myself) in 1970 on an electric typewriter (not as fancy as a Selectric, we didn't have those). It has nice superscripts, perfectly centered titles, and right-justified text. From http://www.donaldsensing.com/2004/09/ibm-introduced-proportional-spacing.html Quote"When you're ready to retype the document, you set this dial to the appropriate color/number combination before typing each line. The Composer will automatically insert the right amount of space between words to make the line lengths equal on all lines. What this means is that the Composer's proportional spacing feature could apparently adjust only the width of the space between words in a line to make the line lengths equal down the column or page. That's what proportional spacing does - adjust the distance between the center of the last letter of a word and the center of the first letter of the next word. The Composer did this to produce full-justified text. But both of the Killian memos CBS displayed are "ragged right," meaning that the text's left margin is justified, but the right is not. That indicates, I would think, that if the memos were typed on a Composer, the typist didn't use the proportional spacing feature. Yet the documents do display proportional spacing, which MS Word on PCs produces whether you set it for full justification or not. But on the Composer, it seems a typist can't use pro. spacing without also producing fully justified text. Remember, this machine has no onboard memory, it operated only mechanically. It was either pro. spacing and justifying or it wasn't." One of the 'old ones' here, John. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #63 September 13, 2004 Awesome....A+ on the homework. I'd actually read each of those (and remember the Leslie Stahls blunder) but didn't take the time to compile it all. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #64 September 13, 2004 QuoteMaybe I'll scan and post a page from my PhD thesis. I typed it (myself) in 1970 on an electric typewriter (not as fancy as a Selectric, we didn't have those). It has nice superscripts, perfectly centered titles, and right-justified text. You young people seem to think anything done before 1985 was in the dark ages. Why don't you do that. I'm sure we could show easily that while it does everything you say, it doesn't match the perfection of the memos in question. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #65 September 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteFixed the links...sorry! Kallend, The liberal media aren't going to cover this because it's making See-BS and Rather (Wish I could superscript the "th") look really stupid. You're just gonna have to hold your nose and get the truth from a conservative site instead of the re-digested, pre-spun pap that normally comes from the MSM. Maybe I'll scan and post a page from my PhD thesis. I typed it (myself) in 1970 on an electric typewriter (not as fancy as a Selectric, we didn't have those). It has nice superscripts, perfectly centered titles, and right-justified text. You young people seem to think anything done before 1985 was in the dark ages. OK, now Kallend is a Typewriter expert.... THis is good. You can debate the authenticity of the Doc's all you want, but more and more they are looking fake. CBS hired only a hand writing expert to look at the signature, not the type. The person writing the memo's was retired for 18 months when one of the alleged memos had been writen, and there are serious questions by unbiased experts regarding the typeset and font of the Documents. Rather is wrong in STATING the documents are factual, and then refusing to show his sources. CBS is wrong for not checking the sources, not releasing all information for the public to see once the controversy was uncovered, and for not having the authenticity of the documents checked prior to airing the story. There is NO defense of the poor News ethics shown here by either CBS and Rather. It is inexcusable. And yes, much like the Times, CBS will loose a lot of credibility, as they should. It is painfully obvious now that Rather is in the Kerry Camp, because he could not step back and look at this situation objectively. Instead he insisted the documents were the real truth. We are all witnessing the fall Dan (Blather) Rather. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,032 #66 September 13, 2004 QuoteOK, now Kallend is a Typewriter expert.... THis is good. Where did I say that? Please cite your source. I am a three finger typist who was, in 1970, perfectly capable of producing properly formatted, centered, right justified text on a 1960s era typewriter. As I said, you young people seem to think that nothing fancy could be done before computers. How do you think they designed the Bell X-1, and the atomic bomb at Los Alamos in pre-computer days? (Hint - the human brain has something to do with it).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #67 September 13, 2004 QuoteI am a three finger typist who was, in 1970, perfectly capable of producing properly formatted, centered, right justified text on a 1960s era typewriter. They weren't questioning the right and or left justifacation of the memo's.... They were questioning the font. I was born in 77, and I too used typewriters. Infact I took a typewriting class in 7th grade... Imagine that. It is not just you "old folks" that had to use them QuoteHow do you think they designed the Bell X-1, and the atomic bomb at Los Alamos in pre-computer days? Slide Rules? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #68 September 14, 2004 Here's the most convincing article so far that the memo's are a fraud: click me! (as if more proof was needed) Excerpt: "Of more than 100 records made available by the 147th Group and the Texas Air National Guard, none used the proportional spacing techniques characteristic of the CBS documents. Nor did they use a superscripted "th" in expressions such as "147th Group" and or "111th Fighter Intercept Squadron."" "A CBS document purportedly from Killian ordering Bush to report for his annual physical, dated May 4, 1972, gives Bush's address as "5000 Longmont #8, Houston." This address was used for many years by Bush's father, George H.W. Bush. National Guard documents suggest that the younger Bush stopped using that address in 1970 when he moved into an apartment, and did not use it again until late 1973 or 1974, when he moved to Cambridge, Mass., to attend Harvard Business School." "The CBS memos contain several stylistic examples at odds with standard Guard procedures, as reflected in authenticated documents." CBS should burn for this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #69 September 14, 2004 A foresic scientist was on Fox news last night with Brit Hume. She had been asked to exanine the documents a a couple days ago. The first tesh she conducted was to use the default settings on MS Word and type the memo's as they were. She states that in the body of the memo she did not hit the carriage return once and the defaul MS Word settings printed exactly as the memos were. Meaning all spacing was identical in the memos and in a word document. She also testified that the signatures on the memos were bogus. This was after a comparitive analysis to 4 document known to be signed by Jerry Killian. In those 4 documents all with witness signatures his signature is almost identical. In the Memos it is not even close!!!! I am no hand writing expert, but even I could see some obvious differences. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
