R. Kelly ? WTF?

[PhreeZone 20]

>A person at 18 is not as aware of the political ramifications of using their vote wisely...but if someone who they admire tells them what to do, they will do so.

Ahh yes, the same 18 year old that could be in the military the day after graduation. The brainless zombies that are incapible of any individual thought at all. I think you don't give the youth of America enough credit.

Unless you don't want the roughly 40% of them that vote republican voting

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[turtlespeed 226]

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>A person at 18 is not as aware of the political ramifications of using their vote wisely...but if someone who they admire tells them what to do, they will do so.

Ahh yes, the same 18 year old that could be in the military the day after graduation. The brainless zombies that are incapible of any individual thought at all. I think you don't give the youth of America enough credit.

Unless you don't want the roughly 40% of them that vote republican voting

John Kerry once said something about something being a stupid little thing that a 27 year old Kid would say.


PK wrote: ". . . and he wasn't campaigning for anyone."

And just what do you think a caucus is PK?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

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And just what do you think a caucus is PK?

In this case, definition 3 on dictionary.com "A group within a legislative or decision-making body seeking to represent a specific interest or influence a particular area of policy:"

This was a concert to raise funds for the congressional black caucus. Not a political rally.

[livendive 8]

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If you were wrongly accused tomorrow of child molestation and immediately shunned by all skydivers would it bother you?

Please answer this question. I understand your point and agree that there is no legal requirement that we treat others as innocent until proven guilty. In some cases, I think it would be reasonable to take certain precautions (e.g. the babysitting thing that keeps coming up despite its total lack of relevance to this discussion). Anyhow, I can see your point. I think if you consider the question above, you'll also be able to see mine.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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If you were wrongly accused tomorrow of child molestation and immediately shunned by all skydivers would it bother you?

Please answer this question. I understand your point and agree that there is no legal requirement that we treat others as innocent until proven guilty. In some cases, I think it would be reasonable to take certain precautions (e.g. the babysitting thing that keeps coming up despite its total lack of relevance to this discussion). Anyhow, I can see your point. I think if you consider the question above, you'll also be able to see mine.

Blues,
Dave

I can't answer this question without an addendum.

YES, I probably would be bothered -- but then again, only I and my accuser would know if I had truly molested a child. If I knew that I had NOT, I'd be frustrated at being treated as guilty.

My addendum is this:
If I HAD molested a child, what fuckin' business would I have being upset with people treating me as guilty?! Some people here seem to feel that even a person who is guilty and knows he is guilty should be entitled to having those around him treat him as though he is innocent right up until his conviction! I say bollocks.

Now, I'm not expecting that guilty people who are free on bail to go skydive are going to tell those around them who are giving them the "innocent until proven guilty" benefit of the doubt to stop doing so because, "Hey, I really am guilty." No guilty person's going to cop to his guilt just to stop his friends from making the mistake of unjustifiably treating them as though they are actually innocent.

Do you support a guilty person becoming indignant at not being treated with the benefit of the doubt by his friends prior to his trial? Remember, I'm talking about a guy who knows to himself he really did the crime. I think that such a person should just STFU if people are shunning him -- if he did the crime, he deserves the shunning! (Of course,depending on what the crime was... If it was some heinous violent thing, then yeah, shun away.)

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[livendive 8]

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I can't answer this question without an addendum.

YES, I probably would be bothered -- but then again, only I and my accuser would know if I had truly molested a child. If I knew that I had NOT, I'd be frustrated at being treated as guilty.

That's why I specified *wrongly* accused.

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Do you support a guilty person becoming indignant at not being treated with the benefit of the doubt by his friends prior to his trial?

Absolutely not. I'm only concerned about how we treat innocent people who have been charged with a crime.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Do you support a guilty person becoming indignant at not being treated with the benefit of the doubt by his friends prior to his trial?

Absolutely not. I'm only concerned about how we treat innocent people who have been charged with a crime.

You're trying to get me to say, "How do we know they're innocent until after the trial," so that you can say, "SEE?! We have to treat them as innocent because we don't know they're guilty yet!" and I'm not falling for it.

I personally draw distinctions between how I will treat person X or person Y based on my own intuition about whether they're guilty or not. I think O.J. is guilty of murder regardless of the fact that he was acquitted. Do I think the criminal justice system should do that? No. Is it alright if a private citizen like me feels that way and bases actions and thoughts on that? Yes, absolutely.

Conviction doesn't always mean guilty.
Acquittal doesn't always mean innocence.

Once you get past those realizations, you have to make your judgments based on your best information, and your intuition.

And I don't really believe that charges are so frequently brought against people who are very likely to have done what they're accused of. I guess it does happen, but I don't think murder suspects are that often just people who are mistakenly suspected.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Michele 1]

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Ahh yes, the same 18 year old that could be in the military the day after graduation. The brainless zombies that are incapible of any individual thought at all. I think you don't give the youth of America enough credit.

Where did I say they're brainless? Or Zombies?

The part you conveniently cut (or didn't read...) was where I said "And while I firmly believe that each vote counts, I'd rather see some research on issues and thinking through the problems at hand rather than voting one way because R. Kelly (or Tom Selleck, or Al Franken, or Joe Blow) says to."

What that means is I do believe that anyone can research and make up their own minds about things, and NOT be sheep following the crowd and doing something just because everyone else does.

NOT because I think they're zombies, or brainless. Actually, quite the opposite.

Geesh...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[douwanto 22]

Isnt there a video of the offence for proof???

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

[kelpdiver 2]

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Isnt there a video of the offence for proof???

The female in it is unidentified (the supposed one claims it's not her) and the date of the video, and therefore the age of the female, is undetermined.

You have a sex tape. If the person is under 18, it represents statuatory rape and thus child pornography. If the person and age can't be established, it's a sex tape. I'm sure more than a few members here have done that in the past.

[PhreeZone 20]

My entire senior year (less then 6 years ago), and my brothers (3 years ago) was devoted to a civic's class that all we talked about every day was government and current issues. Another major topic was the canidates and their stances on issues for voting.

In the State of Ohio this is a mandated class that you have to pass to earn a diploma. Lots of 17 and 18 year olds are very informed on the issues. I can't believe that any of them would actually vote for someone since a popular figure says to. Knowing some of the 17 and 18 year olds in my old school I know that they are way more informed about the issues then most the people on here including me are.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jimbarry 0]

"We are confident that (Kelly's) performance will help us to achieve our goal to educate the next generation of leaders."

"...that reeally scaaaares meee.."

quick tangent...

yeah, yeah, pretty dumb for the CBC to do that.

Look, all i know is that dave chappelle's R. Kelly "pee on you" video is f'n hilarious.

[livendive 8]

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Do you support a guilty person becoming indignant at not being treated with the benefit of the doubt by his friends prior to his trial?

Absolutely not. I'm only concerned about how we treat innocent people who have been charged with a crime.

You're trying to get me to say, "How do we know they're innocent until after the trial," so that you can say, "SEE?! We have to treat them as innocent because we don't know they're guilty yet!" and I'm not falling for it.

Actually, I wasn't trying to get you to say anything. I was just answering your question.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[nixie 0]

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So? Bill Clinton was CONVICTED of being a liar, and he's still the left's darling, and leftist women still cream their panties over him despite him being an unrepentant womanizing scumbag. The word "convicted" matters to some people, too.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
-

Clinton was acquitted, not convicted. He was formally accused. The accusation was politically motivated by a group of republicans who were frustrated with his successes and popularity.

There's nothing in the Constution that says you can't have an affair. There's nothing illegal about it either. The Republicans tried to turn it into a Constitutional issue and failed miserably at it. That's why he was acquitted.

[skydyvr 0]

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There's nothing in the Constution that says you can't have an affair. There's nothing illegal about it either. The Republicans tried to turn it into a Constitutional issue and failed miserably at it. That's why he was acquitted.

Clinton was impeached, which is exactly what "the republicans" set out to accomplish.

He was impeached for lying to a grand jury, lying to a federal judge, interfering with justice, and abuse of power by making false statements to his staff.

Beat the drum of bullshit and self delusion all you want, but Clinton was NOT impeached for having an affair.

. . =(_8^(1)

[lawrocket 3]

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There's nothing in the Constution that says you can't have an affair.

True.

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There's nothing illegal about it either.

False. Had I been Ken Starr I would have handled it much differently by focusing on the patent illegality of his actions. Chief executive officer grants special privileges to intern from whom he is receiving sexual favors. It's called sexual harassment, and violative of Title VI of the Civil Rights act of 1964.

His administration sought to make the rules stricter. "Congress intended to strike at the entire spectrum of disparate treatment between men and women, not simply discrimination that causes tangible harm." This is taken from a Cinton Justice Department amicus brief.

So, not illegal? God help my ass if I get a BJ from my law clerk. I'd like to be able to claim that my prosecution for sexual harassment was politically motivated by groups of republicans who were frustrated with my successes and popularity.

Then again, I'm also not arrogant enough to think I can get away with lying under oath. Oh, if I think the charges are politically motivated, lying is okay.

My wife is hotter than your wife.