lurch 0 #51 September 24, 2004 Tihs is the Csoloet nueorn hcak I've eevr seen. Rdaenig smothenig wtrtien tihs way tkciels my biran and pvordies me with a wlohe new way to tronemt ploepe by txet.Live and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #52 September 25, 2004 we dont need apostrophes. If you cant distinguish between 'youre' and 'your' without an apostrophe, you, are, blind. wouldnt, wont, cant, couldnt, doesnt. Explain why apostrophes are necessary. Try not to start with “We’ve [I](just for you but it doesnt matter)[/I] ALWAYS done it that way!!![/I] care to attempt to defend contractions??? or do you admit that USAGE is what creates your precious rules, and that they can and will change, no matter what those who are slaved to the current set rail about. You still dont see it, and likely never will. Your profession is that of a proofreader and you claim i said the rules "go out the window?? try again, this time read for COMPREHENSION instead of picking apart the structure simply on the basis of " that’s not the way i was trained to build it" .......eyes and mind so wide and so tightly closed.... What you [I]still[/I] fail to grasp is. i understand very very well, but i accept that they are neither static nor mandatory, except when the lack of them interferes with the clear communication of meaning. I'm not creating a 'new form of art' at all, all forms of human expression ARE Art.. but you dont see that either..... i was wrong, you wouldnt look at a Van Gogh and say the colours were wrong. You would scarcely notice them at all and instead spend your time examining the frame. And yes, believe it or not, for the most part, my usage is intentional. Simply because YOU might not like the way I design my sentences and paragraphs, in no way makes them poorly constructed. In fact they express my thought MUCH better than if I broke them down to conform to your rules…the end result is clearer, more accurate communication, than is allowed by inflexible rules of grammar and punctuation. You do it yourself, every time you CAPITALIZE for emphasis… Since youre ‘in the business’, would a proofreader from the 1800s be able to do your job? Or would he have to learn new conventions? how about the reverse, would you be able to proofread a document from the 1800s? or would they say your ‘corrections’ were wrong?? Step away from the nature of your business and look outside… you might understand the point I’ve been making all along____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
girlygirl 0 #53 September 25, 2004 i ain't never seen no problems with how no one talks in this here fourum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #54 September 25, 2004 QuoteMichele, I would NEVER have guessed you don't have a college degree - I would have guessed a Lit. or English liberal arts degree. It's because of the way you write with clarity and elegance, and because you don't distract your readers with errors. Conversely, I'm sure there are plenty of degree holders on this site who've fooled me too! LOL, most people believe I have a degree of some kind. I don't care to disabuse them of that particular notion, except in rare instances where doing so demonstrates a point. The point is simple - you don't need a degree to be able to spell correctly, or structure a sentence correctly. Quote(I've met MBAs who couldn't string a few sentences together to form a complete thought. Sad, but y'all just remember to think before you ever judge someone based on their degree(s) or lack thereof.) Hear hear!!! BTW, some of you argue just to practice your typing skills, don't you? HAH! I figured it all out! And me, with no degree. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheenster303 0 #55 September 25, 2004 Quote Tihs is the Csoloet nueorn hcak I've eevr seen. Rdaenig smothenig wtrtien tihs way tkciels my biran and pvordies me with a wlohe new way to tronemt ploepe by txet. Maybe that way doesn't always work. I have no idea what half those words are.I'm so funny I crack my head open! P.M.S. #102 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #56 September 25, 2004 QuoteQuote Tihs is the Csoloet nueorn hcak I've eevr seen. Rdaenig smothenig wtrtien tihs way tkciels my biran and pvordies me with a wlohe new way to tronemt ploepe by txet. Maybe that way doesn't always work. I have no idea what half those words are. I guess you didn't graduate from Cambridge.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #57 September 25, 2004 QuoteI guess you didn't graduate from Cambridge Neither did I, and I had no problems reading it. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheenster303 0 #58 September 25, 2004 QuoteQuoteI guess you didn't graduate from Cambridge Neither did I, and I had no problems reading it. Ciels- Michele Okay so I read back through and got it the second time. I think I was thrown off by one of the words. I thought it was something different and it didn't make sense. I'm really not dumb, I promise.I'm so funny I crack my head open! P.M.S. #102 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #59 September 26, 2004 QuoteI'm really not dumb, I promise. Of course you aren't. My post was to demonstrate that a) you don't need to have graduated from Cambridge (or anywhere else) to understand that particular concept, and b) just because you have graduated from Cambridge doesn't give a person the right to pass judgment on those of us who haven't. Sheenster, you aren't dumb in the least. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #60 September 26, 2004 Of course it is. Proper spelling and grammar (including the correct application of punctuation and sentence construction, btw) are the only means by which an individual who is attempting to make a statement in printed form can be considered valid. Those who cannot (or do not have the patience to) take the time to build words and sentences correctly should not, in my opinion, have their remarks taken seriously by those who would read them. In my opinion, the reason is simple. Lack of proper spelling and grammar, by default, implies an adult who is either completely devoid of secondary or post-secondary education, or a childish outlook; id est, that the writer is so infantile as to lack the patience and discipline needed to communicate on a fundamental level. It's quite simple really -- if I don't have confidence in your ability to simply express yourself in written form, then how can I, as a reader, be expected to think that complex ideas (exempli gratia, political discussions) are within your grasp when you can't even parse a sentence properly? mh ps - thou earnest points from me for the proper use of Latin phrases...hehehe ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #61 September 26, 2004 Quote ps - thou earnest points from me for the proper use of Latin phrases...hehehe so if someone start replying to you in 'proper' Old English, is that OK with you as well?____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #62 September 26, 2004 Quoteps - thou earnest points from me for the proper use of Latin phrases...hehehe I can use Latin phrases all day. 6 years of Latin in Jr. High/HS. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #63 September 26, 2004 I just wanted to put in my two cents. This is the most anal thread that I've ever seen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #64 September 26, 2004 Quote ps - thou earnest points from me for the proper use of Latin phrases...hehehe . Inter alia, Graeci equum lignum aedificavit.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #65 August 23, 2006 bumped to to the current discussion being locked due to lack of civility, and quite far off topic an experiment. find several texts (in any language (assumes you can actually READ the base language.) from 2000 1900 1800 1700 1600 1500 etc... compare grammar and spelling.. now recognize that both ARE CONVENTIONS, come from USAGE and are ephemeral, largely irrelevant to communication or discussion. those who disagree simply lack perspective (or are machines, incapable of inference and critical thought.) By focusing on the MEANS of communication you miss the entire POINT of communicating in the first...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #66 August 23, 2006 I think good speling and gremmer r veri importent so peeple can understend wat I rite....mmmkay?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eatgrass 0 #67 August 24, 2006 QuoteI think good speling and gremmer r veri importent so peeple can understend wat I rite....mmmkay? Only important in buisness, legal documents and diplomacy, Its like english dialects between common people....Anything thats understandable are acceptable as fair to good english except to the peculiar anals known as spel natzi's imohorelax kids, all you need is airtime airtime airtime and the ability to relax of course Plan your dive and dive your plan bsbs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #68 August 24, 2006 Personally, I think spelling and grammar are important no matter what. Otherwise, you run the risk of developing all sorts of bad habits which could rear their ugly head when you don't want them to. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #69 August 24, 2006 Quotethose who disagree simply lack perspective (or are machines, incapable of inference and critical thought.) By focusing on the MEANS of communication you miss the entire POINT of communicating in the first... My perspective is that proper punctuation allows the reader to better enjoy and understand what was written. This is why we do it -- for the benefit of the reader. Therefore, your idea that content is everything, but the means is irrelevant seems faulty. 98% of writers agree, since they do indeed (try to) use proper punctuation, especially people in careers that depend on good writing skills. Try selling your thoughts on this to ANY employer. You won't get the job. Again (from other thread) -- I believe that nearly all failure to use proper punctuation is rooted in either laziness or incompetence. Exception: chat rooms. There's a reason capitals are used -- they indicate the beginning of a sentence. It helps prevent the tendency for non-punctuated writings like yours to be percieved as a load of stream-of-conciousness junk. I know you're a smart person -- where'd you go wrong with this? . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #70 August 24, 2006 QuoteQuote I know you're a smart person -- where'd you go wrong with this? They didn't go wrong at all they communicated a point that you obviously understood. The art of communicating is different from the art of writing. If you want to be a good writer, that's one thing. But if you are only interested in getting a point across, I think that's another. Having said that I encourage my students to use correct grammar and punctuation. if for no other reason than in the future should they need to use it they are at least equipped. I however rarely use it here, and I almost never proof read before hitting send. Why, well mostly I care not what you lot think of my english skills, and given my poor typing ability, I really could not be shagged fixing it all. If you don't know what I type ask for clarification. other wise get over the grammar and punctuationYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #71 August 24, 2006 Since my sig line says it all, I will use this space to quote Dr. House: Jack: "I don't want to hear semantics." House: "You anti-semantic bastard." Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydyvr 0 #72 August 24, 2006 QuoteI however rarely use it here, and I almost never proof read before hitting send. Even without proofing, your point came across fine. A- . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #73 August 24, 2006 "wrong" is a matter of opinion, as is your assumptions of laziness. baseless and perhaps apply to you but.... since you clearly understood every word i typed, it IS irrelevant. and btw.. the READER has an equal obligation to bring their mind and thought process to the text. insisting that one slavishly following 'the rules' eliminates a great deal of the writers ability to express THEIR thought in the manner THEY wish. Communication goes both ways.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Eatgrass 0 #74 August 24, 2006 My perspective is that proper punctuation allows the reader to better enjoy and understand what was written. This is why we do it -- for the benefit of the reader. Therefore, your idea that content is everything, but the means is irrelevant seems faulty. ------------------------------------------------------------ You mean lazy people or those withoutwithout imagination are the ones failing "to understand" I presume? ------------------------------------------------------------ 98% of writers agree, since they do indeed (try to) use proper punctuation, especially people in careers that depend on good writing skills. Try selling your thoughts on this to ANY employer. You won't get the job. Well thats what Editors are for, to correct, and of course one can fire their secretary if they cain't spell properly while transcribing....Truly great people are men of immagination and forsight, they see the big picture they let drones see to the grunge details.relax kids, all you need is airtime airtime airtime and the ability to relax of course Plan your dive and dive your plan bsbs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #75 August 24, 2006 Quotethe READER has an equal obligation to bring their mind and thought process to the text. insisting that one slavishly following 'the rules' eliminates a great deal of the writers ability to express THEIR thought in the manner THEY wish. Zen, I gotta say, I'm no slave to grammar and spelling, and my communication seems to be fine (except when I'm in a terrible rush; then I forget words...). To suggest that someone who writes well is a slave to grammar and spelling, and therefore lacking in imagination and/or comprehension ability is a paltry excuse for laziness and lack of skill. I've noticed, in my life, that I read a whole lot more than the average bear. I suspect that I've absorbed proper grammar and spelling because of it. Those that do not read a lot tend to have less of a grasp on grammar and spelling, and therefore struggle more with it. Do I fault them? No...but I have a far more difficult time comprehending what their point is exactly, and I also know it's not a "creative" expression but rather a lack of education. Creative expression is something like "kewl" rather than "cool". It's not "col", "coll", or kol". Those are simply errors, and make it definitely more difficult to communicate a message. When someone sits and has to sound out the word, that's not "creative", that's poor spelling. When one has to parse a sentence so as to understand it's meaning -and refer to the surrounding sentences to further ascertain it's meaning - that's not creativity or freedom of expression. That's poor grammar, syntax, punctuation, and spelling. A cleanly written comment is far easier to read than one which is not... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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PLFXpert 0 #71 August 24, 2006 Since my sig line says it all, I will use this space to quote Dr. House: Jack: "I don't want to hear semantics." House: "You anti-semantic bastard." Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #72 August 24, 2006 QuoteI however rarely use it here, and I almost never proof read before hitting send. Even without proofing, your point came across fine. A- . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #73 August 24, 2006 "wrong" is a matter of opinion, as is your assumptions of laziness. baseless and perhaps apply to you but.... since you clearly understood every word i typed, it IS irrelevant. and btw.. the READER has an equal obligation to bring their mind and thought process to the text. insisting that one slavishly following 'the rules' eliminates a great deal of the writers ability to express THEIR thought in the manner THEY wish. Communication goes both ways.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eatgrass 0 #74 August 24, 2006 My perspective is that proper punctuation allows the reader to better enjoy and understand what was written. This is why we do it -- for the benefit of the reader. Therefore, your idea that content is everything, but the means is irrelevant seems faulty. ------------------------------------------------------------ You mean lazy people or those withoutwithout imagination are the ones failing "to understand" I presume? ------------------------------------------------------------ 98% of writers agree, since they do indeed (try to) use proper punctuation, especially people in careers that depend on good writing skills. Try selling your thoughts on this to ANY employer. You won't get the job. Well thats what Editors are for, to correct, and of course one can fire their secretary if they cain't spell properly while transcribing....Truly great people are men of immagination and forsight, they see the big picture they let drones see to the grunge details.relax kids, all you need is airtime airtime airtime and the ability to relax of course Plan your dive and dive your plan bsbs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #75 August 24, 2006 Quotethe READER has an equal obligation to bring their mind and thought process to the text. insisting that one slavishly following 'the rules' eliminates a great deal of the writers ability to express THEIR thought in the manner THEY wish. Zen, I gotta say, I'm no slave to grammar and spelling, and my communication seems to be fine (except when I'm in a terrible rush; then I forget words...). To suggest that someone who writes well is a slave to grammar and spelling, and therefore lacking in imagination and/or comprehension ability is a paltry excuse for laziness and lack of skill. I've noticed, in my life, that I read a whole lot more than the average bear. I suspect that I've absorbed proper grammar and spelling because of it. Those that do not read a lot tend to have less of a grasp on grammar and spelling, and therefore struggle more with it. Do I fault them? No...but I have a far more difficult time comprehending what their point is exactly, and I also know it's not a "creative" expression but rather a lack of education. Creative expression is something like "kewl" rather than "cool". It's not "col", "coll", or kol". Those are simply errors, and make it definitely more difficult to communicate a message. When someone sits and has to sound out the word, that's not "creative", that's poor spelling. When one has to parse a sentence so as to understand it's meaning -and refer to the surrounding sentences to further ascertain it's meaning - that's not creativity or freedom of expression. That's poor grammar, syntax, punctuation, and spelling. A cleanly written comment is far easier to read than one which is not... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
