More Kerry Fantasy

[crozby 0]

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No, the point is that Bush went into this by himself because no one wanted to help to begin with, and no other president, especially one without a plan, is going to persuade them to enter into the mix now.

I'm from Europe and I don't agree.

Its Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheyney etc. who are responsible for the US policy that Europe doesn't like. It is they who have shown distain for the UN and for France and Germany. It is they who made a great show of stating they didn't need help from anyone else, yet now grovel to the UN because they have finally worked out that they can't handle it on their own any more.

People in the Europe complain about Bush, not about the USA.

If Bush were to go then as long as Kerry and his team talk to Europe and include Europe and make them feel like partners then they will respond.

Its silly to suggest that Kerry couldn't do better than Bush in this area, because almost no one could do worse.

[Jib 0]

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I see you guys saying that a lot. Care to explain how Clinton is responsible for Bush increasing government spending and putting through tax breaks? You do understand what a deficit is, right?

Cause Clinton left Bush with a fucked up economy. Why would you have done something differently than Bush?

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[txblondie 0]

If Bush were to go then as long as Kerry and his team talk to Europe and include Europe and make them feel like partners then they will respond.

Its silly to suggest that Kerry couldn't do better than Bush in this area, because almost no one could do worse.
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Until Kerry does another 180 and decides that sweet-talking Europe won't work, and then decides that bullying them would be better. But wait, bullying won't work either, let's try money. Oh, but wait, we have a deficit that needs to be taken care of. But wait, maybe we can ask them for money and see if that makes them feel included. Oh, but wait, that would seem a little silly coming from a rich nation, and we might lose their respect. But wait, we don't have their respect to begin with, so what does it matter?
And so on and so forth...you get the picture.

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Blondes do have more fun!

[PhillyKev 0]

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Cause Clinton left Bush with a fucked up economy.

Assuming that's even true, what does that have to do with Bush increasing government spending and giving tax breaks? You didn't answer this question, but I think you don't understand what a deficit is. It's when the government spends more than it brings in.

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Why would you have done something differently than Bush?

Yeah, not increase government spending and give out tax breaks.

[txblondie 0]

I didn't think you were being rude, but I do have to say that you don't seem to consider conservative opinions anymore than conservatives like to consider liberal opinions. However, I do give them some consideration. Perhaps I'll give you my take on affirmative action sometime...you'll see I don't totally discount the idea, even though most conservatives do. I simply feel it needs to be reformed...

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Blondes do have more fun!

[Jib 0]

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Yeah, not increase government spending and give out tax breaks.

I understand your position about debt driving down the market but I think it's an oversimplification of the overall problems that existed and the economy including jobs and other considerations (as opposed to stock prices) would be worse off.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[PhillyKev 0]

We weren't talking about the market, the overall economy, jobs, or stock prices. The comment was about the record deficit. And that has nothing to do with anything except Bush's policies. The overall economic downturn is an entirely different matter.

[kallend 2,106]

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Yeah, not increase government spending and give out tax breaks.

I understand your position about debt driving down the market but I think it's an oversimplification of the overall problems that existed and the economy including jobs and other considerations (as opposed to stock prices) would be worse off.

So what do you think of the 1.1 million increase in government employees since Bush came into office? A good way to deal with rising unemployment, maybe?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Jib 0]

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We weren't talking about the market, the overall economy, jobs, or stock prices. The comment was about the record deficit. And that has nothing to do with anything except Bush's policies. The overall economic downturn is an entirely different matter.

Taking the deficit in a vacuum, it doesn't matter. Does it?

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[wmw999 2,534]

But if you decide that you have to have a deficit, saying "fuck it, I'll just do everything I want because I have a deficit anyway" is pretty irresponsible.

Most people go into debt to buy a house. Some folks buy the house of their dreams on a negative amortization mortgage assuming that their job etc. will continue to grow as the mortgage and taxes do. Other people dream the house they can buy. It's still debt, but there is a difference.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[PhillyKev 0]

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Taking the deficit in a vacuum, it doesn't matter. Does it?

There are certainly other influences on the deficit. However, the PRIMARY reason for the RECORD deficit is Bush's RECORD INCREASED SPENDING and Bush's TAX CUTS.

Sure, without those thing there would still probably be a deficit. But it wouldn't even be close to what it is now. And those policies of Bush have nothing to do with anything except Bush's agenda and policies.

[storm1977 0]

Seriously though, what does Kerry propose for an option?

Spend Less and tax more?
I am not buying it nor am I having it. Raise my taxes
significantly and give me less services.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[wmw999 2,534]

That's what happens when you overcharge your credit cards -- you spend less, and pay more to cover the interest and the debt.

It means (or should) that you don't eat out as often, even if the reason you charged stuff up was that toxic mold was found in your house and it cost you $30,000 to fix because your insurance doesn't cover it any more.

That's the way life is, and it should apply to countries too. And yes, you definitely get to whine about it. I sure would

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[PhillyKev 0]

Yep....it's called balancing the books. It's going to have to be paid eventually. Meanwhile, interest is accruing.

Bottom line is that tax cuts now, result in tax increases later. And vice versa. Paying down the debt now, results in tax cuts later.

Just the interest on the debt amounts to 11% of the federal budget. And the higher the debt goes, the more that will be. Every dollar in deficit spending increases that amount. So by giving tax breaks instead of reducing the deficit, you're going to have to pay that amount eventually in your taxes PLUS the interest.

Basically, any tax cut you get is just a loan that you're going to have to pay back along with about 6% interest per year.

[jdhill 0]

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Bush increasing government spending and giving tax breaks?

There was this small interceeding event, maybe you remember it... 9/11... it had a significant impact on an already slow economy (inherited from WJC)... need to stimulate the economy? Tax breaks are a way to do it... Increased spending, well they (congress and the administration) did create a new department in the government, that takes sending... then there was that whole war on terror thing... that cost money too...

Deficit spending is not unusual... do you have credit card debt? Most company's have debt, as do most governments... all a result of deficit spending

What would Kerry have done different? What did he vote for in the Senate?

Edit to add... Would Kerry spend the $200B from Iraq on other things, like he says in his speeches? Or would he not spend it, i.e not deficit spend?

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Ron 10]

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Yep....it's called balancing the books. It's going to have to be paid eventually. Meanwhile, interest is accruing.

Bottom line is that tax cuts now, result in tax increases later. And vice versa. Paying down the debt now, results in tax cuts later.

Just the interest on the debt amounts to 11% of the federal budget. And the higher the debt goes, the more that will be. Every dollar in deficit spending increases that amount. So by giving tax breaks instead of reducing the deficit, you're going to have to pay that amount eventually in your taxes PLUS the interest.

Basically, any tax cut you get is just a loan that you're going to have to pay back along with about 6% interest per year.

Not bad logic.

However you seem to think Kerry is going to do anything different. He will not.

Instead of giving tax breaks to people who work, he will instead take away the tax breaks and give that money away to people who refuse to work.

Also, the tax cuts DID stimulate the economy. We were going into a major dip in the economy when Clinton handed the country to GWB. And a major terrorist attack did slam the economy even worse.

So GWB did reverse the downward trend, and stop a crash.

Now we at least have time.

Kerry will just give the money away.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[storm1977 0]

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Yep....it's called balancing the books. It's going to have to be paid eventually. Meanwhile, interest is accruing.

Bottom line is that tax cuts now, result in tax increases later. And vice versa. Paying down the debt now, results in tax cuts later.

Just the interest on the debt amounts to 11% of the federal budget. And the higher the debt goes, the more that will be. Every dollar in deficit spending increases that amount. So by giving tax breaks instead of reducing the deficit, you're going to have to pay that amount eventually in your taxes PLUS the interest.

Basically, any tax cut you get is just a loan that you're going to have to pay back along with about 6% interest per year.

Kev, what you don't realize though is that right now Rates are low.... The Government can just get one of those 0% APR Credit cards and transfer the balance for a couple years!!!!!

See, you aren't thinking

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[headoverheels 333]

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I'm not just a Bush supporter; I have sat down, looked at the issues in regards to my own personal opinions, and 98% of what I believe places me pretty far to the right. I don't HATE all liberals; every once in awhile, it seems that they make a valid point or two. It's simply that I don't agree with most of their political opinions, and I never will. I may be set in my ways, but at least I know what I believe. I would support anyone who promotes my ideals, regardless of who they were, as I'm sure you would.

Here are your candidates, showing their stuff in debate:

http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play.php?reposid=/multimedia/tds/stewart/jon_7131.html&setplayer=real_media

Which one is promoting your ideals?

[PhillyKev 0]

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There was this small interceeding event, maybe you remember it... 9/11... it had a significant impact on an already slow economy (inherited from WJC)... need to stimulate the economy? Tax breaks are a way to do it... Increased spending, well they (congress and the administration) did create a new department in the government, that takes sending... then there was that whole war on terror thing... that cost money too...

Sorry that I wasn't more clear on this but let me clarify. Even AFTER IGNORING homeland security and Iraq, Bush increased spending more in 3 years than any other president in history. In fact, by more than Clinton did in all 8 years.

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Deficit spending is not unusual... do you have credit card debt? Most company's have debt, as do most governments... all a result of deficit spending

Yes, and I pay the balance off every month so that I don't have to pay interest. Otherwise, when something costs a dollar, you end up paying $1.06. In real world terms, the $445 Billion deficit for this year, will cost us an EXTRA $27 Billion that will have to be paid later.

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What would Kerry have done different? What did he vote for in the Senate?

Let's see...what did Kerry vote for in the Senate. Let me use one of your sides famous flip flop examples. He voted for $87 billion in Iraq before he voted against it. To be specific:

He voted FOR the $87 billion for Iraq in a bill that DIDN'T INCLUDE TAX BREAKS.

Then he voted AGAINST the $87 billion for Iraq when the bill INCLUDED TAX BREAKS.

You call that flip flopping. I call that being consistent on his stated policy to REDUCE DEFICIT SPENDING.

[jdhill 0]

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Yes, and I pay the balance off every month so that I don't have to pay interest.

Good for you, most people don't...

Would Kerry spend the $200B from Iraq on other things, like he says in his speeches? Or would he not spend it, i.e not deficit spend? Or, would he be raising taxes?

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Ron 10]

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I call that being consistent on his stated policy to REDUCE DEFICIT SPENDING.

Kerry said he would spend as many BILLIONS that was needed to defend the US and our troops.

But he does vote both ways.

Man that guy is funny.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

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Would Kerry spend the $200B from Iraq on other things, like he says in his speeches?

Yes, I believe he would spend it on homeland security. But you're mixing issues. Once again. EXCLUDING IRAQ AND HOMELAND SECURITY Bush has increased spending more than any other president in history.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Kerry said he would spend as many BILLIONS that was needed to defend the US and our troops.

Sure did, but wouldn't have cut taxes. Therefore, the issue of the deficit wouldn't be as bad.

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But he does vote both ways.

You guys hang on to that like it's a security blanket. It was two different bills. If you don't understand that then there's no point in discussing it.

[storm1977 0]

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There was this small interceeding event, maybe you remember it... 9/11... it had a significant impact on an already slow economy (inherited from WJC)... need to stimulate the economy? Tax breaks are a way to do it... Increased spending, well they (congress and the administration) did create a new department in the government, that takes sending... then there was that whole war on terror thing... that cost money too...

Sorry that I wasn't more clear on this but let me clarify. Even AFTER IGNORING homeland security and Iraq, Bush increased spending more in 3 years than any other president in history. In fact, by more than Clinton did in all 8 years.

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Deficit spending is not unusual... do you have credit card debt? Most company's have debt, as do most governments... all a result of deficit spending

Yes, and I pay the balance off every month so that I don't have to pay interest. Otherwise, when something costs a dollar, you end up paying $1.06. In real world terms, the $445 Billion deficit for this year, will cost us an EXTRA $27 Billion that will have to be paid later.

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What would Kerry have done different? What did he vote for in the Senate?

Let's see...what did Kerry vote for in the Senate. Let me use one of your sides famous flip flop examples. He voted for $87 billion in Iraq before he voted against it. To be specific:

He voted FOR the $87 billion for Iraq in a bill that DIDN'T INCLUDE TAX BREAKS.

Then he voted AGAINST the $87 billion for Iraq when the bill INCLUDED TAX BREAKS.

You call that flip flopping. I call that being consistent on his stated policy to REDUCE DEFICIT SPENDING.

Kerry has his priorities mixed up then...

He is putting tax cuts over the safety of our troops!!!!!
That is wrong and now I definately won't vote for him!!!

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[jdhill 0]

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EXCLUDING IRAQ AND HOMELAND SECURITY Bush has increased spending more than any other president in history.

Real or adjusted dollars? Got a link?

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Yes, I believe he would spend it on homeland security

But that is not what he has said he would spend it on... schools and health care is what he has said... how would he pay for these things without deficit spending or rasing taxes?

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke