Why the Vietnam War was Fought

[mccurley 1]

Well Gemini you and I have disagreed on the draft issue, but I think overall I agree with you on this on. At least to the piont that some corrupt individuals were involed but not every one was corrupt.

I get the feeling that free man is only on here to stir it up and cast a bit of unfounded inuendo about for no better reason then to get a reaction or spread idiotic consperacy theories around.

You make some good pionts, he on the other hand dosen't even give any information on his profile. Meep Meep do I detect a troll??

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[gemini 0]

Thanks I forgot about the Meep!

Let's kill this thread.

Blue skies,

Jim

[free_man 0]

Do not care to get into personal attacks, and stupid, childish arguments that frequently occur on forums so I prefer to be anonymous. No troll, I think you should re read my post and look into what I have stated, resources are there.


I have posted books, and names to research, no inuendo.

All to often disinformation tactics on these forums are used when people can not refute information.

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1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.

2) Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a commentator become argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.

3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.

4) Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.

5) Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain. Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.

6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin -- an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later -- an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game -- where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.

7) Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat 'freudian', so to speak, in that perhaps they really root for the side of truth deep within. I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes itself and the author. For instance, one such player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education. I'm not aware of too many Navy pilots who don't have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.

8) BONUS TRAIT: Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation: 1) ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT - FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth. 2) When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationalist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR - there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to 'get permission' or instruction from a formal chain of command. 3) In the NG example 1) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay - the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.

I close with the first paragraph of the introduction to my unpublished book, Fatal Rebirth:

Truth cannot live on a diet of secrets, withering within entangled lies. Freedom cannot live on a diet of lies, surrendering to the veil of oppression. The human spirit cannot live on a diet of oppression, becoming subservient in the end to the will of evil. God, as truth incarnate, will not long let stand a world devoted to such evil. Therefore, let us have the truth and freedom our spirits require... or let us die seeking these things, for without them, we shall surely and justly perish in an evil world.
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Lets see some intelligent factual proof, and info,
no personal attacks, and disinformation.

Fact: WAR is for profit.
who profits? educate yourself, read War is a Racket. (Just one example.)

Fact: CIA(OSS) involved in drug trade before Vietnam.
(read about the history of the opium trade)

Fact: Gov't story about Gulf of Tonkin incident was BS.
Here just one resource article.(http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/essay.htm)


I always ask myself 2 things when it comes to history and questionable events of the day. QUI BONO, Who benefits? and Follow the money.


So here is a question, (maybe should be a new post, sorry.)

Do you believe that the CIA is invovled in drug trafficking now and or in the past?

“…because I hope you know this, I think you do…all governments are lying cocksuckers.”
Bill Hicks, Relentless

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I thought the original article was about abandoning old allies to their fate?

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[free_man 0]

My first post was in reply to "Why the Vietnam War was Fought" and "the war against communism was not entirely wrong as most liberals would have you believe."

Thread definitely has taken on a new life.

“…because I hope you know this, I think you do…all governments are lying cocksuckers.”
Bill Hicks, Relentless

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Thread definitely has taken on a new life."

That happens from time to time......

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[gemini 0]

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let us have the truth and freedom our spirits require... or let us die seeking these things, for without them, we shall surely and justly perish in an evil world

Talk about contradictory terms! You will die for truth and freedom, but you imply that there is no truth or freedom in our society because the government and anyone who participates in government or the military lies all the time, about everything, to everyone.

Is there not one honest person out there who will or has stepped forward and do what is best for our country?

Blue skies,

Jim

[free_man 0]

"but you imply that there is no truth or freedom in our society because the government and anyone who participates in government or the military lies all the time, about everything, to everyone."

I did not imply this you presume it.



"Is there not one honest person out there who will or has stepped forward and do what is best for our country?"

Good question, I doubt any will be found in leadership positions of the gov't. (doesn't mean all gov't is corrupt)

"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it."

Patrick Henry

“…because I hope you know this, I think you do…all governments are lying cocksuckers.”
Bill Hicks, Relentless

[gemini 0]

Quote

"but you imply that there is no truth or freedom in our society because the government and anyone who participates in government or the military lies all the time, about everything, to everyone."

I did not imply this you presume it.

And it is a pretty fair assumption to anyone who has read all the posts.

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doubt any will be found in leadership positions of the gov't. (doesn't mean all gov't is corrupt)

And finally we can both agree on that point.

Thanks for the lively discussion.

Blues,

Jim