Same-Sex Marriage Amendment Fails in House

[Keith 0]

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In my opinion...and this is not directed to you nor any gay poster in particuliar...being gay is a sick and perverse lifestyle that is morally wrong in every aspect of the word.

You don't have to worry about us being offended, I mean, after-all, you apparently are from a planet made of tuna

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Frenchy68 0]

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So would it be ok to marry your brother/sister if one of you were not capable of reproducing?

There you have it folks. Tuna is proposing Kris' brothers AND sisters. Carpet bombing. Leave no stones unturned...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Kris 0]

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So would it be ok to marry your brother/sister if one of you were not capable of reproducing?

There you have it folks. Tuna is proposing Kris' brothers AND sisters. Carpet bombing. Leave no stones unturned...

He's not coming into my family!

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Zenister 0]

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The real question is

why should same sex marriages be illegal?

Every thing else is simply a distracter. Without good, solid evidence of harm to the individual or to society at large, the government should not prohibit ANY action or agreement between consenting adults. All individuals should enjoy the same legal rights and protections as every other regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation etc....

So, at the risk of changing the 'real' question:

Why should polygamy be illegal?

Why should mariage between your father and brother be illegal? I will go so far as to say that even if it was not illegal, most would admit to finding it objectionable.

And on and on...

All distracters. but your welcome to start another thread and bring those issues up to your congressmen etc if it is that important to you.. but it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, your simply using scare tactics to imply that would be a possible result, of same sex marriage... aka the "slippery slope" another fallacy.

WHO proposed it is irrelevant as well...the facts are states are attempting to make something illegal based on pure religious morality. Lots of things in our constitution could have been written more clearly, but the idea was to give the PEOPLE as much freedom as possible to make their own choices… them more you narrowly define what can and cannot be done the LESS freedom we have….

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[TypicalFish 0]

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In my opinion...and this is not directed to you nor any gay poster in particuliar...being gay is a sick and perverse lifestyle that is morally wrong in every aspect of the word.

Right. Just like "nigger" is OK because it is not directed towards any black person in particular and "kike" is not directed towards any particular Jew.

Good lord.

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[Paulipod 0]

The question of marrying your sister does actually make me think a little....

I am not anti-gay, or anti-gay marriage but I can see the parallel and would find it hard to choose a stance on a couple who are related that want to marry.

I wonder if pro-gay-marriage lobbyists would back a small incestous group wanting the same rights

I have always believed in live-and-let-live but I am not sure how I would vote on that one

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[misskriss 0]

No human can declare anything to be "morally" wrong. Are you getting this from the Bible? Do you lust after women and do you have sex and are not married? This is too in fact, deemed "morally wrong" by the Bible, is it not? I really dislike when people pick and choose which parts of the Bible they are goingt to follow.


Honestly, I can't believe why anyone would "choose" to be gay. Dealing with all of this hate must just be so much fun. You are either born gay or you are not. Of course, some people may experiment with the same sex for whatever reason and not be gay but that is not what we are talking about here. Obviously for those so set in their beliefs it will not make a difference and they will continue to spout hate. All I can do is raise my children to be loving and accepting of all people and to love them the way God made them--including those who are ignorant.

[WhirledWeb 0]

(mildly off the specific topic) I heard somebody say last week that the gays should stage a nation-wide boycott against straight marriage. All of your hairdressers, wedding planners, cake decorators, florists and clothing designers would be able to send the wedding industry into a tailspin. All that would be available would be shotgun weddings with the ensuing potluck reception at the local grange.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Don't be afraid of death,
be afraid of the unlived life.

[kallend 2,027]

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I agree with you on the level of involvement of the government when it comes to such personal issues though.

So does that mean you should be allowed to marry your sister? What about your mother? How about your dog? Where do you draw the line?

When it comes to legal rights, your family already has them. This is about creating new "family".

I don't think non-humans are relevant, can the dog give informed consent?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

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A license is a permission granted by competent authority to engage in a business or occupation or in an activity otherwise unlawful. Webster's Dictionary.

That makes me look at my USPA "D" license ina whole new way.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"can the dog give informed consent?"

Bark once for yes, twice for no.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[TomAiello 26]

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So does that mean you should be allowed to marry your sister? What about your mother? How about your dog? Where do you draw the line?

Although you're not going to agree, yes, I do. The line gets drawn somewhere based on ability to consent, for me. So children oughtn't be getting into lifelong commitments, as they havne't developed sufficient capacity to consent to them. Dogs and sheep? Do as you wish.

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I mean, afterall, you feel the government should not be involved with personal issues such as marriage.

Correct. I do not feel that the government ought to issue licenses, or sanction marriages of any kind. Many of the things we view as "marriage" can be created with an equivalent set of legally binding contracts that would not require government sanction to create. And if "marriage" as a government sanctioned state did not exist, I'd bet that employers/insurers/extenders of benefits in general, would be more lenient in allowing folks to extend their benefits to anyone they claimed as family (extending reasonable limits as to the number of non-biologically related individuals who could be considered family).

What the heck do I care if you want to marry a sheep, a dog, three women and a man? I don't have any personal moral beliefs that find that repugnant.

Note that, as I said above, I do understand that many people do, and I respect their right to hold those opinions.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Frenchy68 0]

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I wonder if pro-gay-marriage lobbyists would back a small incestous group wanting the same rights

Sure. And let's not forget the small group called "albino midgets skull fucking road kills". You'll always find a small devious group to raise fear in an argument. But homosexuality is NOT a small incestous group. It's a pretty relevant minority. I do not see how their union could harm any other union...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Paulipod 0]

I agree, but its not the size of minority that I meant...

For example, if I had two couples come to me... (hypothetically if they needed to!) and asked if they could be married... one couple was two males... and one couple was brother and sister...

All I was saying was that, I should have no reason to object to either couple...

But would the two males object to the brother and sister union? My point was to me.... not in either minority.... there is a parallel

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[billvon 2,991]

>It's the same reason you can't marry your brother, sister, mother and
> father. It's morally incorrect.

No, the reason you can't is because a) there are genetic problems with that and b) we have a natural inhibition against doing so. Often our natural inhibitions are expressed into moral codes or law.

>Raising a child in a gay household is emotionally and psychologically
>disturbing and damaging to him/her.

Nonsense. Abuse is damaging; having two loving parents is not.

>Being gay isn't natural.

Neither is oral sex, or fetishes, or birth control, or pornography. Yet people are free to choose to engage in those things if they so desire, which is how it should be.

>I remember getting sent to the principle's office in the 1st grade for
>lifting up the dress of a female classmate. Can't remember ever getting
> in trouble for trying to see what was under John and Frank's pants.

That's cause you're not gay.

>In my opinion...and this is not directed to you nor any gay poster in
> particuliar...being gay is a sick and perverse lifestyle that is morally
>wrong in every aspect of the word.

Now, that's no problem at all. You have every right to think that, just as you have a right to think interracial marriages are sick and wrong, or inter-faith marriages are evil.

>However don't expect the same rights of a male/female relationship
>let alone want to raise a child.

Here's the problem. If you think interracial marriages are wrong, fine. If you try to stop two people from getting married because you don't like their religion/race/sexual orientation - that's wrong. It's their life and their relationship, not yours.

[okalb 104]

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Raising a child in a gay household is emotionally and psychologically disturbing and damaging to him/her.

Ok, I have kept out of this argument, but I gotta call bullshit on this one. I am a 35 year old heterosexual male that was brought up in a household with my mother and her girlfriend. Most of the adults that I knew growing up were Gay and Lesbian couples. Not only was it not psychologically damaging to me, but it opened my eyes to the fact that not all people are the same and that doesn't make the "different" wrong.

Anyone who knows me can attest to that fact that I am a lot of things but psychologically disturbed and damaged aren't words that anyone would use to describe me.

My mother has been with the same woman for 25 years they own two homes and a business together. I find it to be a disgrace that they cannot have the legal benefits that go with being married. Nobody is asking you to run out and become gay all they are asking for is the same rights afforded to everyone else in this country.

As for the question of family members marrying. I find it to be kinda gross, but if you want to marry your relative. Have at it!

-OK

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[Keith 0]

Gee Tuna, got nothing to say to Okalb? Hmm I wonder why? It doesn't surprise me you hide who you are. Does anyone around here know you? Do you actually skydive?

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[tunaplanet 0]

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Gee Tuna, got nothing to say to Okalb?

So one person who is the exception to the rule makes the entire idea moot? Hardly.

Oh, by the way, no one's hiding. Perhaps the reason I don't respond the nanosecond you expect me to means...oh...I don't know...maybe I was...busy?

Forty-two

[Treejumps 0]

*** "Honestly, I can't believe why anyone would "choose" to be gay."

I think that you can replace "gay" in that sentence with any of hundreds of high risk, socially unacceptable behviours and it would still make sense. Why would anyone choose to: shoot heroin, smoke crack, jump out of planes, BASE jump, wrestle alligators, light themselves on fire, and so on.

In this sesne, being gay is very similar to any high risk activity. Why WOULD anyone choose to? Attention? Be differnt? Depression? Boredom? Peer pressure? Sense of belonging? Sense of being an outsider? Who knows?

If it is not a choice, then it is a genetic error meant to be worked out through natural selection. If it is chosen, then I think it is pretty easy to compare it to many other activites.

Props to Avery. He is only telling you what the majority of Americans believe (despite what the media tries to tell you.) Political corectness has silenced most people from speaking theri mind, but the overwhelming support to ban gay marriage tells the real story.

Cya.

[Remster 30]

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Gee Tuna, got nothing to say to Okalb? Hmm I wonder why? It doesn't surprise me you hide who you are. Does anyone around here know you? Do you actually skydive?

Actually, he proves the point. He tuned into a woman loving freak thanks to his lesbian parents.

Sorry... carry on with your usefull discussion....

Remster

[craichead 0]

Who made this whacked out theory of yours a rule?

There was a very interesting documentary on the Sundance Channel last night: Our House: A Very Real Documentary About Kids of Gay and Lesbian Parents

It seems to me that the children in the film were pretty happy and well-adjusted in their loving families and in society--they go through all the same growing pains that other "traditional" families experience.

However, when intolerant, prejudiced friends and family tried to interfere and break up that loving and caring family through force--THAT'S when the children were most emotionally and psychologically damaged.

_Pm

__
"Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC)

[Shotgun 1]

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He is only telling you what the majority of Americans believe

I think at this point it's just barely a majority, and will one day be a minority. Not so long ago, a majority of Americans believed that black people should not be allowed to marry. That seems silly now; the gay marriage ban will seem silly years from now.

[billvon 2,991]

> Why WOULD anyone choose to?

Could you choose to want to have sex with men? At some point, when you were 13 or something, did you think "you know, I am equally attracted to Joe and Jill, but I think I will pursue Jill?"

>If it is not a choice, then it is a genetic error meant to be worked out
> through natural selection.

Sickle cell anemia is a genetic disease. Yet it continues in our genetic heritage because it confers an absolutely critical trait to primitive peoples - resistance to malaria. Thus societies that have sickle cell anemia carriers have some direct negative consequences (people who fall sick from sickle cell anemia) but something that confers an advantage to the individual (resistance to malaria) and an advantage to the community (greater resistance to epidemics.) That's why this "genetic defect" is still around - because it has benefits that weren't obvious at first.

If homosexuality was a genetic error with no benefits to the community at all, it would have been evolved out a long time ago. It hasn't been.

>Political corectness has silenced most people from speaking theri mind,
>but the overwhelming support to ban gay marriage tells the real story.

The people out to ban gay marriage will someday be looked at the way we look at people who oppose interracial marriages. It's just a matter of growing up as a society.

[Michele 1]

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I just joined a new office. In this office, easily 66% - or a bit more - of my colleagues are gay. Some are men, some are women. How about I let you know in, oh say 6 months, if I've been "recruited?"

(I hate to quote myself, but since Badenhop never responded to me, I guess I need to...)

So yesterday, I was dressed really nicely. No real reason, just because I wanted to look exceptionally good for myself...

Anyway, I was told that I had I looked really gorgeous, not once, not twice, but three times by the same...gasp...woman who is a lesbian. Different times during the day, too.

Does this mean I'm being recruited?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[kallend 2,027]

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If it is not a choice, then it is a genetic error meant to be worked out through natural selection. If it is chosen, then I think it is pretty easy to compare it to many other activites.

Not necessarily. It could result from environmental influences in the womb or infancy that have not, thus far, been identified. In which case it would not evolve out.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.