dorbie 0 #301 October 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn my life I have had two guys try to "recruit" me. One was named Hank, and the other Hal. Both were good friends and people I trusted with being a sounding board for my tough choices. Both hid the fact they were gay until many years had passed. One tried to kiss me while we were both drunk one night. The other told me that he was gay and in love with me one day. So if you try to kiss a woman, or tell her you're in love with her you're trying to recruit her to heterosexuality. edited to add: I feel your pain. I would get angry and exile anyone who told me they thought I was a great guy too. Laughable, really. "recruit". Jeeze, I wish more women would try to recruit me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #302 October 11, 2004 QuoteToo bad you lost two good friends due to your lack of compassion and forgiveness/understanding. To bad they lied to me and hid their real intentions from me."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #303 October 11, 2004 QuoteSo you were born gay and chose to be straight. Hmm, but you said you didn't believe people could be born gay? No, in fact I think you are neither born gay nor straight. I think it is a choice you make based on factors that influence you. Nice line of BS however."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #304 October 11, 2004 QuoteSo if you try to kiss a woman, or tell her you're in love with her you're trying to recruit her to heterosexuality. In a way yes. Quoteedited to add: I feel your pain. I would get angry and exile anyone who told me they thought I was a great guy too. Don't get all pissy, you asked a question and I answered it...I felt they were trying to recruit me."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,447 #305 October 11, 2004 QuoteTo bad they lied to me and hid their real intentions from me. The first one -- both of you were kids (I hope -- if he wasn't, then that's really wrong for an entirely different reason). Kids are weird. You've never heard a teenager lie about sex stuff? Did the second one actually lie to you, or just not talk about it before the incident? Maybe he wasn't comfortable talking about it right up front. Not everyone is. And if you think that coming on to you was their aim all along, does that mean that any girl you've even asked out, you've wanted to from when you first met her, and it wasn't a case of a liking developing? I know that I've gone out with guys whom I'd known for awhile, and who even dated other women in the meantime. It never occurred to me that getting a date with me was their real intention. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #306 October 11, 2004 QuoteIt's not that easy, Ron, there is no choice at all. My girl friend's son is 24. His father is an Italian "macho man", training his son basketball, tennis, football: no German soccer, or whatever it's called, scuba diving, martial arts. The guy's coming back home after training, taking a shower, dressing himself like a girl. He was like that from the beginning. He has no choice and is unable to change it by "just willing". That's their nature which you never will turn into anything else. Could you be turned into "something else"(Ron, go home an start loving gays!) ? By forcing you or with you own will? I doubt that. Your opinion. Some might say that it could have been a reverse reaction to his father trying to butch him up. But feel free to just assume you know more than the Dr's that are studying this. I don't know....I do have an opinon about it. Quote It's mother nature. Not more, not less Again feel free to think you know more than anyone else."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #307 October 11, 2004 One tried to kiss me while we were both drunk one night. Men do that to women all the time. Sometimes it freaks me out too. Sometimes it makes me want to stay away from them. I never thought they were trying to recruit me, though. Just lookin' for some action, I suppose -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #308 October 11, 2004 QuoteMost people would take it as a compliment. Don't know about everyone else but i'm comfortable with my sexuality and i'm flattered when a gay man comes onto me. Actually I have had random gay guys hit on me....They don't bother me. Having two guys that I trusted like brothers suddenly tell me that they have had feelings for me that they have kept hidden...Well thats a breach of trust. THATS why I felt wierd around them. They lied to me for years."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #309 October 11, 2004 Quote Quote Too bad you lost two good friends due to your lack of compassion and forgiveness/understanding. To bad they lied to me and hid their real intentions from me. Too bad you can't realize the world doesn't revolve around you. Friendship is bigger than one person. But it seems that yours exist only on your terms. If you are willing to lose 2 good friends over this it doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't support gay rights. It also makes me doubt you have actually had meaningful open dialogue about homosexuality with any homosexual people you respect. I'm not attacking you, Ron. 'You' are kind of a generalization. I've had similar conversations with my dad. But I really meant it when I said I thought it was too bad you left those friendships. I would have thought they were something to cherish. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #310 October 11, 2004 QuoteBecause they were afraid that you would no longer feel comfortable around them? Sounds like they were right. Well they would have been wrong. Its the trust that the betrayed that lost them the friendship. QuoteNo, but sounds like they will know better than to admit to their friends that they are gay in the future. And that works for the anti-gay side as well; once they're more secretive about it, an anti-gay activist can claim they are trying to 'keep secrets.' Maybe they should be MORE honest and not try and hide it for years while they wait for the right time to make a move?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #311 October 11, 2004 Well, believe it or not, I wasn't trying to trap you or judge you. I was genuinely interested in your answer. Thanks for sharing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #312 October 11, 2004 So the fact that they were gay had nothing to do with it whatsoever? Would you have felt the same way if a 2 female friends that you had known for years confessed to having feelings for you? Would you end your friendship with them too? ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #313 October 11, 2004 Your opinion. Some might say that it could have been a reverse reaction to his father trying to butch him up. But feel free to just assume you know more than the Dr's that are studying this. I don't know....I do have an opinon about it. Quote It's mother nature. Not more, not less Again feel free to think you know more than anyone else *** Do not tell me I know more than anyone else, that would make me feel disappointed. That would mean, "anyone else" still is living on a flat earth. What I said is what I read, noticed over the years, what everybody knows and especially what I learned in personal environment. If you cannot stand my comment, OK. C U dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #314 October 11, 2004 QuoteOne is gay and one is hetero, taking your position to it's logical conclusion on equal rights suggests that this should play absolutely no role in deciding where the child is placed, they should just flip a coin. First, I haven't addressed gay adoption. No where in a marriage contract does it discuss adoption rights. That's a different issue, however, the answer to the above question, is yes, I think it should be a coin toss. Just because one couple happens to be gay doesn't make them inferior parents. Back to the subject at hand: There will never be equality when one group of people is treated differently than another.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #315 October 11, 2004 QuoteThe first one -- both of you were kids (I hope -- if he wasn't, then that's really wrong for an entirely different reason). Kids are weird. You've never heard a teenager lie about sex stuff? He was older..Like 20. Wanna hear the funny part? He was a youth counselor at church.... QuoteDid the second one actually lie to you, or just not talk about it before the incident? Maybe he wasn't comfortable talking about it right up front. Not everyone is. Yeah flat out lied to me. I asked him one day when I saw some pictures in his house of a guy. The kind of pictures I would have of my GF. He told me that they were of a buddy. QuoteAnd if you think that coming on to you was their aim all along, does that mean that any girl you've even asked out, you've wanted to from when you first met her, and it wasn't a case of a liking developing? In the course of the 4 years I knew the second guy he had plenty of opportunity to tell me. Fact is he lied until one night we were at his house and both VERY drunk. After he outted himself I saw the set up. I don't hold it against him, but my trust was broken....It is hard for me to be friends with a person I don't trust. Ever had a buddy hit on you? Did it change the relationship? QuoteI know that I've gone out with guys whom I'd known for awhile, and who even dated other women in the meantime. It never occurred to me that getting a date with me was their real intention. did it change your friendship with them?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #316 October 11, 2004 QuoteNice line of BS however. You're just pissed I beat you at your own game.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #317 October 11, 2004 QuoteToo bad you can't realize the world doesn't revolve around you. Friendship is bigger than one person. But it seems that yours exist only on your terms. If you are willing to lose 2 good friends over this it doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't support gay rights. It also makes me doubt you have actually had meaningful open dialogue about homosexuality with any homosexual people you respect. I'm not attacking you, Ron. 'You' are kind of a generalization. I've had similar conversations with my dad. But I really meant it when I said I thought it was too bad you left those friendships. I would have thought they were something to cherish. You are not attacking me? Funny sure seems like it. And BTW I lost one friend, the other did get kind of a down grade from close personal friend to "buddy". If you knew a guy that was a buddy of yours, and for 4 years he never hit on you. Then one day he set up a day, got you drunk and made a move. How would you feel? QuoteBut I really meant it when I said I thought it was too bad you left those friendships. I would have thought they were something to cherish. I tend not to have friendships with people I don't trust."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #318 October 11, 2004 QuoteDon't get all pissy, you asked a question and I answered it...I felt they were trying to recruit me. Looks like I touched a nerve.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #319 October 11, 2004 QuoteWell, believe it or not, I wasn't trying to trap you or judge you. I was genuinely interested in your answer. Thanks for sharing. Sorry my answer was kind of a joke. I expect you to try and trap me...thats the kind of relationship we have."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #320 October 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteWell, believe it or not, I wasn't trying to trap you or judge you. I was genuinely interested in your answer. Thanks for sharing. Sorry my answer was kind of a joke. I expect you to try and trap me...thats the kind of relationship we have. Good, I don't want to mislead you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #321 October 11, 2004 QuoteIf you knew a guy that was a buddy of yours, and for 4 years he never hit on you. Then one day he set up a day, got you drunk and made a move. How would you feel? You know Ron, I've had the same thing happen to me. Women I've known for years hid their heterosexuality and one day out of the blue hit on me when I was drunk. Maybe I'm naive; I was actually flattered.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #322 October 11, 2004 QuoteSo the fact that they were gay had nothing to do with it whatsoever? Would you have felt the same way if a 2 female friends that you had known for years confessed to having feelings for you? Would you end your friendship with them too? You need to read it again...One lost friendship...A church counslor that I felt was preying on me. The fact that he was an adult, a leader in the church, and I thought my best friend. Made it so that friendship ended. The second guy is still a buddy, but not as close as we were...And yes that is keeping in method to females that are friends that hit on me that I am not interested in. In a way I am still kinda freeked by it. But it is the fact I don't think I can talk to him about my life anymore that made it so we are not still best friends. How can I talk to him about my Ex wife, my current GF, the people I date, my future with them? If I can not be open and honest with my friends....Then they are not my closest friends. This situation made it so I don't feel I can be open and honest with him. I have had the same thing happen with females."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,447 #323 October 11, 2004 The one who was the youth counselor was wrong on all counts. That's not a homosexual kind of wrong, it's an authority figure/adult vs. kid kind of wrong. Ministers aren't supposed to date members of their congregations, and the same most likely applies to youth counselors. There's at least one youth counselor here on dz.com who would probably second that, too. As far as the second, well, I think my feelings would have been different, but I wasn't there. I haven't had a buddy try to hit on me (it seems I'm "not that kind of girl" -- too much one of the guys or something). But guys who try and then back off are no issue. Ones who keep pursuing, or who continue to make sure that you always know how they "really feel" do make me uncomfortable. But at least I know where they stand. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #324 October 11, 2004 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nice line of BS however. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're just pissed I beat you at your own game. You didn't beat me at my own game. I think people are born...Then they CHOOSE to be gay or straight. You want to claim that . . . Edited for personal attacks again"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #325 October 11, 2004 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't get all pissy, you asked a question and I answered it...I felt they were trying to recruit me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looks like I touched a nerve. You claimed that gays don't "recruit" I gave you my personal examples of two times I felt that they were trying."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
