Keith 0 #1 October 6, 2004 Keep them stupid - the Bush Education plan. If all these kids from the ghetto get educated, who's going to be the cannon fodder for International Corporatism? http://www.cta.org/CaliforniaEducator/v9i1/MTC_1.htm Victor Banuelos was surprised when military recruiters called him at home repeatedly, telling him that the "only way out of the ghetto" was to join the military. The teenager's name, address and phone number were provided courtesy of Los Angeles High School before Banuelos' graduation last June. "I told a recruiter that I was planning to go to college. He told me that I couldn't pay for it, and that the only way out of the ghetto was through the military," recalls Banuelos, now a freshman at UC Santa Cruz. "I told him I would get financial aid or student loans. He said I wouldn't be able to pay for it and that I should go through the Army and get the GI Bill." When the recruiters would not take no for an answer and continued calling him, the honor student began pretending that he was someone else and told them Victor was not at home. Under Section 9528 of the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB), the military is now granted access to the names, addresses and phone numbers of high school students so they can be recruited for service. Schools that fail to provide this information face a cutoff of federal dollars. The provision, buried deeply in the 1,100 pages of the federal law, overturned schools' strict privacy policies, which in the past withheld students' personal information from even college recruiters. NCLB requires schools to allow military recruiters physical access to school facilities. Proponents say changes were necessary because before 2000, up to 15 percent of the nation's high schools did not allow recruiters on campus. Others say the law is unnecessary, since federal law already requires every male who is a U.S. resident (regardless of citizenship) to register with the Selective Service System within 30 days of his 18th birthday. Failure to register could result in five years' imprisonment and a $250,000 fine. The NCLB law gives students and their families the right to have personal information withheld from recruiters if they sign a written form. But even those who have signed these forms may find that their wishes are ignored. "I got the form from a teacher and signed it," recalls Banuelos. "But I still got contacted. I think it's horrible to say that it's important for no child to be left behind when, in reality, you are telling them they have no options but the military. I know my family is not the richest in the world, but I found a way to pay for college." Frances Martin, a senior at Crenshaw High School in Los Angeles, also signed the form to have her personal information withheld. Recruiters, however, call her cell phone on a regular basis. "I signed the paper to opt myself out and it didn't mean anything, because they still got the information," says Martin. "When I asked them how this happened, they said I fell through the cracks. And they keep calling." Some school districts have tried to fight the law. The San Francisco Unified School District decided to provide information to recruiters only if students requested that it be provided - in writing. But the idea of having students "opt in" rather than "opt out" of providing information was nixed recently when the federal government threatened to withhold badly needed money, says Dennis Kelly, president of United Educators of San Francisco. Groups of teachers, students, parents and community members - including the Coalition Against Militarism in Our Schools (CAMS) and the Coalition for Educational Justice (CEJ) - are trying to overturn the law through protests and public awareness campaigns. "We are trying to make parents aware of their rights [to opt out] and encourage districts to take a proactive stance in notifying parents of their rights, instead of burying the information somewhere in the parent handbook," says Andy Griggs, a member of United Teachers Los Angeles (UTLA) and CAMS. "We feel that this law is wrong because it is an invasion of student privacy." "The problem with NCLB is that it exploits student information in ways that are inequitable," says Rebecca Solomon, a teacher at Los Angeles High School. "While all schools must provide information, it's usually accessed in schools that military recruiters believe will be most useful - working-class communities and schools with students of color. It targets students of color who are already the most underserved, and it's just not fair." Sherry Posnick-GoodwinKeith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #2 October 6, 2004 QuoteKeep them stupid - the Bush Education plan. So, is this just a posit? Or, do you really think it's true. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #3 October 6, 2004 I think Bush's continual cuts in education speak to that. Bush is clearly NOT the education President.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #4 October 6, 2004 QuoteI think Bush's continual cuts in education speak to that. Link please? I'd like to know if that's true. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #5 October 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteI think Bush's continual cuts in education speak to that. Link please? I'd like to know if that's true. Not too hard to believe. QuoteWe want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks. -Woodrow Wilson QuoteIn our dreams...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way. -1906 Press Release from the Rockefeller Education Board upon announcing their creation of a large public school network. Quote"We believe that education is one of the principal causes of discontent of late years manifesting itself among the laboring classes." -Senate Committee on Education -1888 These quotes might be from a while ago, but we still have an education system based on and designed by these people. School vouchers anyone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
free_man 0 #6 October 6, 2004 Read this: http://deliberatedumbingdown.com/ “…because I hope you know this, I think you do…all governments are lying cocksuckers.” Bill Hicks, Relentless Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #7 October 6, 2004 Personally I hate no child left behind BS. Teachers have to teach students how to do well on freaking standardized testing instead of actually how to think. Kids don't learn creative thinking, they learn how to be drones and memorize and regurgitate information. It's pissing off a lot of teachers too. Makes me almost want to home school when I have rugrats, but I like my job too much to be a stay at home mom. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #8 October 6, 2004 QuoteNot too hard to believe. Fascinating quotes, but where is the link to Bush's "continual cuts in education". . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #9 October 6, 2004 QuoteRead this: http://deliberatedumbingdown.com/ I wasn't far into the site when I realized the author's writing skills aren't very good. He must be a victim of the very system he's trying to expose. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #10 October 6, 2004 QuotePersonally I hate no child left behind BS. Teachers have to teach students how to do well on freaking standardized testing instead of actually how to think. Kids don't learn creative thinking, they learn how to be drones and memorize and regurgitate information. I agree with you in principal but my experience in a good public school consisted more of being a drone regugitating facts than thinking. I don't know how you can otherwise objectively judge learning than standardized tests. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #11 October 6, 2004 A lot of any school will include learning a lot of facts -- they are part of what make up the learning that's necessary, and what makes us able to understand each others' references. The problem is that now that we're "holding the schools accountable" the competence with which those facts are learned is the primary measurement, which means that the ability of students to do well on the standardized tests becomes more important than their ability to integrate those facts into a meaningful thought framework. Private schools will almost always do better. They can select their students, and turn away the ones that aren't cost effective to serve. Public schools have to serve everyone. "No child left behind" is an attempt to make sure that all kids are measured using the same measuring stick. Unfortunately, that same stick just doesn't work for all kids. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #12 October 6, 2004 QuoteI don't know how you can otherwise objectively judge learning than standardized tests. By having those standardized tests include essays, problem solving, logic and reasoning type problems such as IQ tests typically have as a small component of them. Yes, it would be more work to actually assess them, but it would also be more telling. Those bubble tests don't say much about a person's knowledge, only multiple guessing and regurgitation. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #13 October 6, 2004 QuoteThe problem is that now that we're "holding the schools accountable" the competence with which those facts are learned is the primary measurement, which means that the ability of students to do well on the standardized tests becomes more important than their ability to integrate those facts into a meaningful thought framework. Exaclty, it's not the act of testing that's thet problem, it's the form of standardized testing, that is. Anyone can memorize answers to test questions. But actually being able to use knowledge in a productive manner is what is important. For exam;le, in the IT world the common phrase is "paper MCSE". That's someone who crams for and takes the Microsoft tests to get a certification but doesn't have a clue how to do anything in a real production environment. By contrast the Cisco certification consists of being given an unconfigured piece of equipment, a desired real world set of business objectives, and then you have to build the machine from scratch to meet those objectives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #14 October 6, 2004 Schools have to be rated somehow. Standard testing is fine by me. And will be until someone offers something measurable and actionable in lieu of it instead of just complaints without alternative containing a ton of subjectively scored items. How do you score the following (this is a good teacher normally): This weekend I was using flash cards for multiplication and division to do with my daughter (3rd grade). These were prepped in class on Friday. They showed that a number divided by zero equals zero. (1/0, 2/0, etc) amongst more practice problems.... I explained that was incorrect to my daughter and we redid the cards and practiced with her noting dividing by zero is 'undefined' or 'infinity'. She had no problems with the concept and it was fun to explain it to her. Same thing when she asked me what pi was,.... She asked her teacher about it the next day and the teacher brushed it off noting it "equals zero in the 3rd grade". Then she told my wife that my daughter was disruptive. (Rebecca might have been persistent since the answer was weak, if so then good for her). We're going to have a friendly talk. This is an excellent school and I want to understand the point of them training something incorrect in math. Math, language and science are very important, they can have leeway for the softer studies, but not these basics. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #15 October 6, 2004 QuoteI think Bush's continual cuts in education speak to that. Bush is clearly NOT the education President. You do realize that education in the US is funded primarily on a local, and secondarily on a state level, right? Federal budgeting has virtually no impact on education funds.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
free_man 0 #16 October 6, 2004 *** I wasn't far into the site when I realized the author's writing skills aren't very good. He must be a victim of the very system he's trying to expose. That's too bad you may have learned something. “…because I hope you know this, I think you do…all governments are lying cocksuckers.” Bill Hicks, Relentless Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1shlips 2 #17 October 6, 2004 Exactly. I never understand why people depend on somebody in DC to solve all problems when there is a group of people you can actually walk up and talk to working at the state legislature, or city council, and they're only a few hours away.-- drop zone (drop'zone) n. An incestuous sesspool of broken people. -- Attributed to a whuffo girlfriend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #18 October 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteI think Bush's continual cuts in education speak to that. Bush is clearly NOT the education President. You do realize that education in the US is funded primarily on a local, and secondarily on a state level, right? Federal budgeting has virtually no impact on education funds. Shhhhhhhhhh..... That's not what the Democrats want to teach their people. T.M.I. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #19 October 6, 2004 The requirement to release student name to military recruiters existed well before NCLB... When I was a recruiter, I had plenty of schools that would not release lists, and I had as an option the threat of loss of funds... we never used it, even as a threat. There were /are other ways to gain the information. If the student's account of the recruiter's approach is accurate, which it may or may not be, there is an issue with the recruiter, that has nothing to do NCLB. That approach is appropriate for some, but not for all... There are kids out there whose only chance to get out of the ghetto, or trailer park, or any other cyclical situation, is the military... sometimes they need to be smacked in the face with it. Again, maybe not in this case... JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #20 October 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteI think Bush's continual cuts in education speak to that. Bush is clearly NOT the education President. You do realize that education in the US is funded primarily on a local, and secondarily on a state level, right? Federal budgeting has virtually no impact on education funds. That's the problem. Poor communities have poor schools. It is the exact reason why there is a growing class division in this country and why public education is in that state that it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #21 October 6, 2004 I'm aware the feds only fund about 10% of the education budget, however, Bush has promoted himself as being big on education, then turns around and makes cuts to the mere 10% the feds do contribute. From the Dept of EducationKeith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #22 October 7, 2004 QuoteYou do realize that education in the US is funded primarily on a local, and secondarily on a state level, right? Federal budgeting has virtually no impact on education funds. That in itself is appalling to me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #23 October 7, 2004 Quote That's the problem. Poor communities have poor schools. It is the exact reason why there is a growing class division in this country and why public education is in that state that it is. This subsidization of poorer districts could be provided within any state. There are incredibly rich districts and incredibly poor districts inside of, say, California for example. You don't need federal funding to equalize that. The US spends a TON on education. Money isn't the problem. Disinterested and irresponsible parents are the problem, and no amount of money can make up for that. I'm not any smarter than anyone else, I came from a poor, shitty school, but my parents rode my ass from day one about succeeding in school. I went to college and I'm doing pretty well now.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #24 October 7, 2004 I don't disagree at all. But we as a society can't do anything about that. It is beneficial for society as a whole to have a well educated population. We can't magically make good parents or require states to distribute educational funds equitably. What we can do as a society is to make sure everyone has the same opportunity at a good education regardess of who their parents are or what their state's fiscal policies are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #25 October 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteYou do realize that education in the US is funded primarily on a local, and secondarily on a state level, right? Federal budgeting has virtually no impact on education funds. That in itself is appalling to me. Why? That's exactly the way it should be. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
