TheAnvil 0 #26 October 7, 2004 If the left were actually interested in getting ghetto kids educated, they would not oppose school vouchers. I personally feel education to be a matter for the states more than the federal government. With regards to military recruiters getting such lists, I have no problem with that either. What I DO have a problem with is recruiters lying to kids or misleading them. That would be a problem with the Armed Services and not whichever party happens to hold the WH or either house of Congress at the time. Poor article in general. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #27 October 7, 2004 QuoteIf the left were actually interested in getting ghetto kids educated, they would not oppose school vouchers. That's a slanted statement. The left doesn't oppose what the right says school vouchers would accomplish. They don't agree that it will accomplish what the rigth promises and believe it will do the opposite. There's a huge difference between opposing an ideal and opposing a method of reaching an ideal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #28 October 7, 2004 That's because they're thinking of NEA lobbying $ and not of the children. Taking kids out of failing schools and placing them in well-performing private or public schools has about ZERO chance of not improving those kids' education. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #29 October 7, 2004 QuoteTaking kids out of failing schools and placing them in well-performing private or public schools has about ZERO chance of not improving those kids' education. True, but it also has a near 100% chance of degrading the education for everyone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #30 October 7, 2004 You have no basis for making such a statement - fiscal or otherwise. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #31 October 7, 2004 QuoteYou have no basis for making such a statement - fiscal or otherwise. Fiscal basis - schools are given funding based on body count of students. Other basis - The Philadelphia public school system was privatized a couple years ago and it has been a disaster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #32 October 7, 2004 LOL. Based upon # of students among many, many, many other factors. The privatization of the Philadelphia school systems is a completely different issue than school vouchers programs. Comparison between the two serves no purpose and is meaningless. Try again. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #33 October 7, 2004 >Comparison between the two serves no purpose and is meaningless. Try again. Yes, Philly, I'm afraid you will have to come up with an example that demonstrates the opposite effect before it will be considered valid here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #34 October 7, 2004 JACKASS ears and smiles in amusement> Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #35 October 7, 2004 the odds that: 1. a private school is going to accept a low-performing kid from a public school 2. the voucher is going to come anywhere close to actually covering the cost of tuition at said private school are both slim to none. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #36 October 7, 2004 Quotelow-performing kid from a public school It's his own fault he's low-performing and goes to a public school . If he were really worthy he'd figure out a way to be high-performing. We all have the same chance. Or something like that. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #37 October 7, 2004 Accepted? Depends on the school actually. A few friends and friends of the family work with private schools that take in children from public schools quite often. I actually asked about problems making up the difference in education levels and they told me that it was amazing how quickly the children caught up when placed in the private school environment. Vouchers are for parents who are making a choice for their children. If they can't afford to pay the difference, that's a choice they have to make - and I believe it THEIR choice. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #38 October 7, 2004 QuoteVouchers are for parents who are making a choice for their children. If they can't afford to pay the difference, that's a choice they have to make - and I believe it THEIR choice. You know I like you Vinny, but sometimes I have to wonder if you're smoking crack. Low income families don't have a choice. It's either send the kids to private school or put food on the table and pay the rent.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #39 October 7, 2004 exactly! and that's why vouchers won't work. A voucher for hundreds of dollars isn't going to help when sending a kid to private school costs thousands. the solution is to fix the system we have. Perhaps, provide low cost daycare so older children can do homework and younger ones have a safe place to go after school? Most of the kids I worked with in low performing LAUSD schools had the following problems: 1. nowhere to study. they shared small apartments with their moms, grandparents, siblings, and sometimes another family too. they simply had no quiet corner to use to get their work done. Going to the library wasn't an option... there aren't many around. 2. no time to study. high school kids are working to help pay the rent. junior high kids are babysitting younger brothers and sisters. 3. no parental support when they finally got a moment to do homework. either the parent wasn't home or wasn't educated to a level to help out, and was possibly english limited. 4. worrying about other things. When there's no food, the power's out because you can't pay the bills, or the landlord's posting eviction notices, it's not easy to concentrate on homework. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #40 October 7, 2004 Odd that parents are the ones screaming for the vouchers and screaming when NEA lawyers get vouchers overturned if they don't work as you claim. The vouchers cover the total costs in some schools - sometimes not. It makes another choice available for parents in the lower performing districts that are able to make that choice. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #41 October 7, 2004 *** And reduces funding for the kids whose parents aren't able to make that choice. Or does the money for vouchers fall out of the sky? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #42 October 7, 2004 Nope. Try again. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #43 October 7, 2004 Why don't you help me out and tell me how vouchers would be funded without reducing funding to public shools. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #44 October 8, 2004 The zero sum budget game works almost as well as the zero sum economy argument, which doesn't work at all. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #45 October 8, 2004 So tell me how you would fund school vouchers? The voodoo economics game works as well as Santaria. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #46 October 8, 2004 You don't want schools to be budgeted federally, because then the federal government has a say in how the school is run, how it's taught etc. They could pull something similar to what they puleld in the 70s or 80s or so, when some states (Nevada, Montana, etc) didn't have speed limits on their empty highways. The federal government stated that if they didn't set a speed limit of 55, and give out a certain number of tickets per month, the state would lose their federal highway funding. I definitely don't want the federal government mucking around with the school system. Let it be be locally managed ... On the other hand, no-strings-attached grants to poorer schools would be nice to have, but somehow, I doubt that a no-strings-attached grant would ever come from the feds.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #47 October 8, 2004 QuoteThat's because they're thinking of NEA lobbying $ and not of the children. Taking kids out of failing schools and placing them in well-performing private or public schools has about ZERO chance of not improving those kids' education. No, that's because while it would work just fine if there are actually decent private schools, there aren't any in most areas of the country. There isn'ta simple answer but the bottom line to me is that you don't abandon a system that mostly work because it has a few problems. The answer is to fix the problems. It might surprise you that most of the poor performing schools are in areas that are poor and have little tax base to work off of, and that most areas that are wealthy do actually have public schools that excel. Money does have something to do with it. Not everything mind you, but it definately has an effect. It would be great to say that the inner city kids could go to any school they want but how do you get them there? What would you propose for a poor rural area that has a "failing" public school? Most of these areas don't have options without long bus rides. Do you propose paying for transportation for all students to the private school of their choice as a part of your voucher system?illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #48 October 8, 2004 One wonders where you got the impression that I tout vouchers as a solution for every school system. For clarification, I don't. Voucher programs do not abandon public schools - they reduce the # of students stuck in them. Funding a vouchers program does not take funds from public schools - nor does funding a road construction project for that matter. NEA $$ for democrats and NOT the needs of children are what drive leftists to oppose vouchers programs. Period. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #49 October 8, 2004 Again, please tell me how you plan to fund the vouchers? You either have to take the money from somewhere else, or get more money by raising taxes. Which do you propose? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #50 October 8, 2004 You don't get it. VOUCHERS AND EDUCATION ARE A STATE/LOCAL ISSUE - NOT A FEDERAL ISSUE. EACH SYSTEM IS DIFFERENT, THEREFORE A FUNDING SOLUTION FOR EACH IS DIFFERENT AS WELL. THERE IS NO GENERAL ANSWER. Implying that there is is quite inane. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
