JohnRich 4 #26 October 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteI think is a huge invasion of privacy. Huge but neccessary. There are hundreds of plots and crimes of all kinds detected and revealed by Echelon... It is definitly something we need to have continue to happen. So you wouldn't mind if the police knocked on your door and entered your house against your will, to scan your computer disk and make sure that there aren't any signs of plots or crimes on it? Hey, we gotta make sure you're clean! Right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #27 October 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn no way does violating the unalienable rights of the Citizens justifiable because you detect or reveal plots or crimes. I disagree. But hey...everyone has an opinion. Dude, are you fucking kidding me? It was said that "increased security" is no justification for trampling the People's inalienable rights, and you said, "I disagree," which means you feel that "inalienable rights" are not inalienable, and can be infringed upon if the goal is noble. That's scary. What's worse is I hear more and more people claiming this same sick belief. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #28 October 10, 2004 QuotePeople that have your mindset are definitly in the dark when it comes to what it takes to defend this country. Dude, a country like that -- where no one is free because the state is supreme -- ain't worth defending. When protecting the people so that they can live becomes more important than the premise of living free despite the risks that freedom entails, then you have it backward and need to start over. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #29 October 10, 2004 QuoteThat's scary. What's worse is I hear more and more people claiming this same sick belief. Very scary way to live. I think it was Franklin who said "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Fear and paranoia drive people to do scary things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ERAUSkydiver 0 #30 October 11, 2004 Big Brother issues aside, I'm even against RFID used for automated check-out at grocery stores. An automated check out machine just means one less available job for a real person. Sure it's a low paying job that not many people want to do, but it's still a job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #31 October 12, 2004 QuoteBig Brother issues aside, I'm even against RFID used for automated check-out at grocery stores. An automated check out machine just means one less available job for a real person. Sure it's a low paying job that not many people want to do, but it's still a job. That's how my dad views it, and I've come to see it that way, too. For example, when was the last time, outside of New Jersey, that you saw a gas attendant pumping gas? On the other hand, I have used the self-checkout at Walmart the last two or three times I was there, and I do a better job of putting my stuff into bags in an organized and sensible "this-goes-with-this" fashion than any cashier ever did. And there is hardly ever a line there, unless some overambitious idiot is at the scanner fucking up. But I was conscious of the fact that if enough people use those things, fewer cashiers will have jobs. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #32 October 12, 2004 QuoteBut I was conscious of the fact that if enough people use those things, fewer cashiers will have jobs. Don't sweat that sort of thing. Increasing automation of mundane tasks can only lead to more leasure time for the middle class, according to Dvorak. And I believe it to be so. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #33 October 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteBut I was conscious of the fact that if enough people use those things, fewer cashiers will have jobs. Don't sweat that sort of thing. Increasing automation of mundane tasks can only lead to more leasure time for the middle class, according to Dvorak. And I believe it to be so. Dvorak, the composer of the New World Symphony?? Um, what happens to that middle class, when the ultra-low rise up really pissed off at being jobless and poor? I guess the middle class'd better hope they can't afford guns! (Maybe that's why the Democrats are pushing to ban cheap handguns!) -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #34 October 12, 2004 QuoteDvorak, the composer of the New World Symphony?? No, John Dvorak, editor and columnist for PC Magazine. He claims that by mid-century, automation will create a race of first worlders that can choose to work or not work, thanks to the efficiency of automated, self repairing and designing machinery. Technological automation will make prosperity levels increase to herebefore unknown levels, and all that. I believe him. QuoteUm, what happens to that middle class, when the ultra-low rise up really pissed off at being jobless and poor? I guess the lower class folks will have the jobs the middle class no longer wants -- they'll be too busy soaking up the sun on a beach somewhere. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #35 October 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteI think is a huge invasion of privacy. Huge but neccessary. There are hundreds of plots and crimes of all kinds detected and revealed by Echelon. Some I can not post on a message board but there are many I can. It is definitly something we need to have continue to happen. As I said in another thread, the people that actually believe this shit are the ones who scare me. In their patriotic zeal, they will destroy our country. Michael Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
