Zep 0 #1 October 9, 2004 Saw a interesting an disturbing documentry the other day Seem that thier are an awful lot of spent nuclear fuel rod being smuggled around eastern Asia an that the Port Authorities in New york only search 2% of all containers off loaded an I imagine that this is true for a lot of other countries Seems to me that before we go pissing off our neighbours we should tighten up our borders Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2 October 9, 2004 Quote Saw a interesting an disturbing documentry the other day Seem that thier are an awful lot of spent nuclear fuel rod being smuggled around eastern Asia an that the Port Authorities in New york only search 2% of all containers off loaded an I imagine that this is true for a lot of other countries Seems to me that before we go pissing off our neighbours we should tighten up our borders Seems to me that pissing off the neighbors is not the smartest thing to do.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #3 October 9, 2004 QuoteSeems to me that pissing off the neighbors is not the smartest thing to do. If being a wealthy and powerful nation that has freedom of religion and speech pisses off some neighbors, fuck 'em. Someone will be mad at us no matter what we do.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #4 October 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteSeems to me that pissing off the neighbors is not the smartest thing to do. If being a wealthy and powerful nation that has freedom of religion and speech pisses off some neighbors, fuck 'em. Someone will be mad at us no matter what we do. No joke. Some people don't realize that, or won't accept it even though it's reality, and they insist that we contort what we do and who we are in order to try to placate a bunch of people who hate us and will hate us no matter what. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #5 October 10, 2004 depends on what kind of firepower the neighbors have professor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #6 October 10, 2004 Read between the lines this IS a problem so big that we can't run away from it www.winn.com/bs/atombomb.html Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #7 October 10, 2004 So some of you reckon than if some (many) countries are pissed at the U.S it is because they envy your way of life, right? Haven´t you thought for a moment that the invasion of a sovereign country, the collateral damage, the support you give to dictatorship regimes whenever you fancy has something to do with it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #8 October 10, 2004 So the crazy islamic fundamentalists absolutely LOVED the US before we invaded Iraq this time around? Strange, I guess, like you, I should pretend not to have seen the unprovoked terrorism towards the US and its citizens worldwide. I guess in your world helping Israel exist, making the arab world rich by buying their oil, and helping Kuwait and Saudi Arabia stay secure by having troops there is reason enough for you to actually think that their bullshit jihad is warranted? Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #9 October 11, 2004 > So the crazy islamic fundamentalists absolutely LOVED the US before >we invaded Iraq this time around? They loved us when we gave them weapons to kill people for us. They could take us or leave us for a while after that. But now that we're killing arabs in record numbers, by and large they hate us. More importantly, we are turning ordinary arabs into crazy fundamentalists by killing their families. When we kill people, the survivors tend to hate us. It's a concept many people have a remarkably hard time understanding, but have no problem when the situation is reversed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #10 October 11, 2004 SECRET WARS by Steve Coll. Excellent reading. Highly recommended. Pakistani Intelligence (ISI) and our desire to covertly oppose the Soviets in Afghanistan played a large role in creating the jihadist movement. Along with our wahabbi allies the Saudis. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #11 October 11, 2004 Chicken or the egg, Bill? Did we start terrorizing the extremists before they started terrorizing the world? See, you never did respond to my statement about the fact that us helping Israel alone is reason enough for the fuckers to hate us. Add the fact that we have troops stationed in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and they hate us more. So really... do you REALLY think that it's all our fault that extreme islam has declared a jihad against the west? And I fully understand that when we kill arabs, some of the leftovers will hate us. But there is a cultural cycle of hatred bred into many islamic fundamentalist communities... it really doesn't take us killing arabs to make them mad. You have to see that.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #12 October 11, 2004 >See, you never did respond to my statement about the fact that >us helping Israel alone is reason enough for the fuckers to hate us. Add > the fact that we have troops stationed in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and >they hate us more. Agreed. >So really... do you REALLY think that it's all our fault that extreme >islam has declared a jihad against the west? You just gave a list of things we do that get them to hate us, then you ask if it's our fault that they hate us? >And I fully understand that when we kill arabs, some of the leftovers will hate us. Did you really just refer to the arabs we don't kill as "leftovers?" Are you still wondering why so many of them hate us? Imagine if your family were described as 9/11 leftovers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #13 October 11, 2004 >Record Surplus to Record Deficit in just four years - is this a record? No political .sigs, John. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #14 October 11, 2004 QuoteYou just gave a list of things we do that get them to hate us But why should they hate us for these things? We have troops in SA ans Kuwait (and most other Arab countries) at the invitation of their governments, what's their real beef with Israel? The Arabs don't want the Palestinians any more than the Israelis do... they don't like Israel because it created a refugee issue for them (and that pesky little religion thing)... maybe it was a kneejerk reation to create a Jewish homeland after the Holocaust, we should just let it go away now... that's the answer... The hate is created by the demagoguery of the extreamist leaders... even if all those reasons went away, they would still hate... JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #15 October 11, 2004 QuoteBut why should they hate us for these things? We have troops in SA ans Kuwait (and most other Arab countries) at the invitation of their governments, You just answered your own question. The common citizen of those countries doesn't like the Monarchies that rule them and dislike the fact that we prop them up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #16 October 11, 2004 >what's their real beef with Israel? They regularly kill Palestinians. Palestinians are generally arabs. (I know, Palestinians killed them first, because Israel took over their land, which was originally Arab land, and so on for about twenty centuries.) >maybe it was a kneejerk reation to create a Jewish homeland after the > Holocaust, we should just let it go away now... that's the answer... Not 'just go away' - but make it clear that within X years, we will stop supporting them. We have our own problems. We don't need to prop up countries all over the world. Time to get off the teat. >The hate is created by the demagoguery of the extreamist leaders... >even if all those reasons went away, they would still hate... Their leaders would, and they would be impotent crackpots much like the Army of God is here in the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #17 October 11, 2004 QuoteThe common citizen of those countries doesn't like the Monarchies If that's true, then that is where they need to direct their hate... It seems to me that it is not the common citizen, it is the small, yet violent, group of citizens (or not) that cause the problems... JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #18 October 11, 2004 QuoteIf that's true, then that is where they need to direct their hate There are a lot more bombings of their gov't buildings then of ours. QuoteIt seems to me that it is not the common citizen, it is the small, yet violent, group of citizens (or not) that cause the problems... That's true as well for the most part. But the more people have violence commited against their friends, neighbors and relatives, the more willing they are to join the violence. I believe that's the point Bill was making. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #19 October 11, 2004 QuoteBut the more people have violence commited against their friends, neighbors and relatives, So how does this lead to the Egyptian, Sirian, or Jordanian terrorist? We have not commited violence against them... nor are their governments "proped-up" by us...All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #20 October 11, 2004 I don't know. They're nut jobs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #21 October 11, 2004 QuoteThey loved us when we gave them weapons to kill people for us. We gave Afgan Freedom Fighters weapons to resist the Russian invasion, which happend to be in our interest too... but actually that has nothing to do with the Arabs since Afgans are not Arab... We gave Sadam weapons to fight Iran... the enemy of my enemy is my freind sort of thing... that was a mistake that grew out of the Hostage Crisis, and SH never really loved us then... Arabs are killing Arabs in unprecidented numbers, and we have killed some too, and it continues bucasue a small group of people don't want to participate in the political process, and another group that just hate everything until the world is an islamic theocracy... JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #22 October 11, 2004 QuoteArabs are killing Arabs in unprecidented numbers, and we have killed some too, Nice spin! I think a more accurate statement might be: Arabs are killing Arabs in unprecidented numbers, and so are we. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #23 October 12, 2004 QuoteSo some of you reckon than if some (many) countries are pissed at the U.S it is because they envy your way of life, right? Haven´t you thought for a moment that the invasion of a sovereign country, the collateral damage, the support you give to dictatorship regimes whenever you fancy has something to do with it? Oh for pete's sake, are you saying they didn't hate us long before ANY of that?! -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #24 October 12, 2004 QuoteSo the crazy islamic fundamentalists absolutely LOVED the US before we invaded Iraq this time around? Strange, I guess, like you, I should pretend not to have seen the unprovoked terrorism towards the US and its citizens worldwide. I guess in your world helping Israel exist, making the arab world rich by buying their oil, and helping Kuwait and Saudi Arabia stay secure by having troops there is reason enough for you to actually think that their bullshit jihad is warranted? True, like you said, if the middle east didn't have us buying their oil, they... well, they don't have JACK SHIT over there. They sit on dead land, desert. The only reason they have ANYTHING is because they have oil commerce with us, and yet we are assailed for being consumers of oil. How fuckin' lunatic is that?! -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #25 October 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteYou just gave a list of things we do that get them to hate us But why should they hate us for these things? We have troops in SA ans Kuwait (and most other Arab countries) at the invitation of their governments, what's their real beef with Israel? What is the oldest reason on earth for hating someone else? RELIGION, my friend. One religion wants the GROUND that the Jews in Israel live on, because once, long ago, special things are supposed to have happened there, and so the ground is so pathologically special to these people (both sides, actually) that they are willing to spit in the eye of their own God and kill to keep or reacquire it. Sick, I know. But the reason is RELIGION. And if people could shed it, but retain the notion of "being excellent to each other," we could have a world full of peace. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
