peacefuljeffrey 0 #76 October 13, 2004 QuoteYes i have, and it is only republicans who have a blind faith in their representatives. Most democrats admit Kerry will not make the best president ever, but he is much better than Bush. However Bush followers believe that Bush is doing things right. Prove me wrong. Can you say the important thing that Bush has done wrong in your opinion? I've said repeatedly that I don't like Bush, but will vote for him over Kerry because there is zero doubt that Kerry opposes the right to keep and bear arms, which I view as very important. I never said I'm voting for Bush because I like him or believe he's always right. You are hyperbolizing. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #77 October 13, 2004 QuoteThe point is to win. Win at all costs. Do whatever it takes to ensure freedom. If that means breaking laws, stepping on the rights and liberties of our citizens...then so be it. Just win. Do you see the contradiction in your post? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKYDIVNEKD 0 #78 October 13, 2004 Quote>As far as your other conspiracy theory about it being another Vietnam? Highly unlikely. From Seymour Hersh, the guy who broke the Abu Ghraib story: I got a call last week from a soldier -- it's different now, a lot of communication, 800 numbers. He's an American officer and he was in a unit halfway between Baghdad and the Syrian border. It's a place where we claim we've done great work at cleaning out the insurgency. He was a platoon commander. First lieutenant, ROTC guy. It was a call about this. He had been bivouacing outside of town with his platoon. It was near an agricultural area, and there was a granary around. And the guys that owned the granary, the Iraqis that owned the granary... It was an area that the insurgency had some control, but it was very quiet, it was not Fallujah. It was a town that was off the mainstream. Not much violence there. And his guys, the guys that owned the granary, had hired, my guess is from his language, I wasn't explicit -- we're talking not more than three dozen, thirty or so guards. Any kind of work people were dying to do. So Iraqis were guarding the granary. His troops were bivouaced, they were stationed there, they got to know everybody. They were a couple weeks together, they knew each other. So orders came down from the generals in Baghdad, we want to clear the village, like in Samarra. And as he told the story, another platoon from his company came and executed all the guards, as his people were screaming, stop. And he said they just shot them one by one. He went nuts, and his soldiers went nuts. And he's hysterical. He's totally hysterical. And he went to the captain. He was a lieutenant, he went to the company captain. And the company captain said, "No, you don't understand. That's a kill. We got thirty-six insurgents." You read those stories where the Americans, we take a city, we had a combat, a hundred and fifteen insurgents are killed. You read those stories. It's shades of Vietnam again, folks, body counts... You know what I told him? I said, fella, I said: you've complained to the captain. He knows you think they committed murder. Your troops know their fellow soldiers committed murder. Shut up. Just shut up. Get through your tour and just shut up. You're going to get a bullet in the back. You don't need that. And that's where we are with this war. A nameless ALLEDGED account from some soldier in Iraq, right!!! I had a soldier call me and tell me everything was going as fine as could be expected. War is war. It isn't always pretty and you can definately find people on both sides of the good/bad things going on. I hope you're not hangin' your hat on that story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKYDIVNEKD 0 #79 October 13, 2004 QuoteIt is incredibly sad and incredibly unacceptable. Each of those prisoners, no matter how despicable, should receive the same treatment that we want our prisoners in other countries to receive. We still point to Argentina's desaparecidos as an example of what a dictatorship does. Yes, it is up to us to do it first. If we want to be a beacon of freedom, then the light has to be able to shine everywhere. Wendy W. Can someone take some of that "light" and shine it in Viet Nam because they have yet to release all of our POW's (if any are still living). However, I'm sure they're living the high life over there since we know they wouldn't have tortured them. Have you heard tale of what McCain went through. Hardly humane treatment. They torture because that is what they are. You can take all of your compassionate BS and see how far it would get you in war. They don't/won't give two $hits about what we think. They are hopin' to win based on your weaknesses. Treating people the way you want to be treated only works when both parties have the same beliefs. Or you're gonna have one person gettin' his @$$ kicked all the time! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #80 October 13, 2004 Hitler's Nazi Germany had people "disappeared". Stalin's Communist Russia had people "disappeared". The Junta in Argentina had people "disappeared". Poll Pot's Cambodia had people "disappeared". Communist China has people “disappeared”. I can’t believe that there are people on this board that are actually happy that their country – the land of the free – now may well be judged by history to fit into this category. That is one of the saddest indictments I have seen in a long time. Why don’t you question what your country is doing as opposed to trying to justify it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #81 October 13, 2004 So you abide your constitution and law but only for american citizens, and if it is not a case of terrorism. If we are talking about a terrorist he has no rights. What about if he was an american terrorist? Wouldn´t it be more honest to change your constitution to allow torture in case of terrorism rather than breaking the law? The U.S has signed the geneva convention and expect the Iraquies insurgents to follow it and not behead contractors, however the U.S itself will not follow the geneva convention. You cannot have it both ways. Have you read something about Felipe Gonzalez and the GAL? he was the president of Spain before Aznar, and at that time ETA was extremely active, he created a secret group that tortured and assasinated ETA members. Well, not only that group was extremely unsuccesfull but also he almost got impeached. I assure yoy that that method does not work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #82 October 13, 2004 In a certain way all Al-Qaida terrorists would like to disappear. So big deal ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #83 October 13, 2004 QuoteNEW YORK - At least 11 al-Qaida suspects have “disappeared” in U.S. custody, and some may have been tortured, Human Rights Watch said in a report issued Monday. Apparently whomever made them disappear knows more than you do... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKYDIVNEKD 0 #84 October 13, 2004 If they have disappeared, how does Human Rights Watch know assume some "may have been tortured"?!?! Are they ASSUMING since they have disappeared, they have been tortured. Or are they just playing games because the US isn't telling them where the others are right now? Ya know, things that take place in war are ugly. If ya can't except that, I'm not sure what to tell ya. There are things the public should never and will never know. It's called "Need to Know" intelligence. Just because there are so many news agencies with time to kill, they think they are entitled to every bit of information they want. And, if they aren't given it, they scream cover up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #85 October 13, 2004 Quote A little nervous laughter like you offer in response goes a long way in telling us how you feel, and what you take seriously and what you don't. I guess you don't take very seriously the fact that others observe that you sympathize with the torturers and murderers of innocents. So it would seem, anyway. Oh, Dear Lord, for once in my life beeing M. Tyson for just one minute.. that would be pure fun dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #86 October 13, 2004 And you think making threats, knowing the liberal greenies will let you slide it, makes it better to back up your point of view?. That is to show what a "great" school of thought groomed you..."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #87 October 13, 2004 Anyone who advocates this behavior by our government is a bigger threat to the security and liberty of our nation than any terrorist could ever be. In fact, this behavior is the exactly the goal that terrorists are trying to achieve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #88 October 13, 2004 Quote And you think making threats, knowing the liberal greenies will let you slide it, makes it better to back up your point of view?. That is to show what a "great" school of thought groomed you Who's making what? Do not understand, Juanesky. I used to groom my horses few years ago.. I think, you misunderstood my post. Or perhaps my very poor English. Shall we continue in German? Christel dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #89 October 13, 2004 It seems that not understanding is a very common trait on your posts. Maybe you need to further educate yourself before making comments that lack on a straight forward meaning."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #90 October 13, 2004 *** knowing the liberal greenies will let you slide it, *** Hey forgot to ask: Which greenie exactly is liberal? Would love to know, just in case.... Damn, I did not pay attention on that. Back to threads. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #91 October 13, 2004 > And you think making threats And you claiming she's a terrorist sympathizer. Both of you cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #92 October 13, 2004 QuoteAnyone who advocates this behavior by our government is a bigger threat to the security and liberty of our nation than any terrorist could ever be. In fact, this behavior is the exactly the goal that terrorists are trying to achieve. To think such a thing is UNAMERICAN... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #93 October 13, 2004 QuoteAnd you think making threats, knowing the liberal greenies will let you slide it, makes it better to back up your point of view?. That is to show what a "great" school of thought groomed you... Yes, please, taught us some manners. Werent you the one who threatened with shooting me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #94 October 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteAnyone who advocates this behavior by our government is a bigger threat to the security and liberty of our nation than any terrorist could ever be. In fact, this behavior is the exactly the goal that terrorists are trying to achieve. To think such a thing is UNAMERICAN... So to hold true to the Bill of Rights, Geneva conventions, etc.... That is unamerican? Please explain._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penniless 0 #95 October 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteAnyone who advocates this behavior by our government is a bigger threat to the security and liberty of our nation than any terrorist could ever be. In fact, this behavior is the exactly the goal that terrorists are trying to achieve. To think such a thing is UNAMERICAN... I believe that distrust of government is highly American and very patriotic. Isn't it a central theme of conservatism? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #96 October 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteAnyone who advocates this behavior by our government is a bigger threat to the security and liberty of our nation than any terrorist could ever be. In fact, this behavior is the exactly the goal that terrorists are trying to achieve. To think such a thing is UNAMERICAN... Advocating the destruction of civil liberties and the protection of individual rights to due process is just about the most UnAmerican thing you can do. America was founded with the belief that individuals should be protected from an oppressive government above all else. This is the exact opposite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #97 October 13, 2004 As far as taught you, well, not even the facts, explanations, seem to grasp any hold in the understanding area by your concepts, and you prefer to get schooled in just pure and blatant hatred on anything US. As far as shooting you, not, just shooting anyone, only the ones who dare do harm to anyone in my family, and that was in reference to pedophiles, if you are one, then I grant that it is including you. If not, so then it's all . Is that explanation clear enough?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #98 October 13, 2004 QuoteApparently whomever made them disappear knows more than you do... Will you be so trusting when the US leadership changes this year or sometime in the future? If not, then be careful about the precedents you support. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
algboy 0 #99 October 13, 2004 "The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." -- George W. Bush, 9/13/01 "I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." -- George W. Bush, 3/13/02 Flop-flip-floop-flap-flub-flab“Keep your elbow up!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
algboy 0 #100 October 13, 2004 I won't shed any tear vapor, much less an actual tear, for anything that happens to an Al Qaeda member. "That would be asking me to care about someone who would torture and kill me if he had the opportunity, and then claim that he did it for god. Fuck 'em all." How very "peaceful" of you--Jeffrey . . . . “A terrorist is someone with a bomb—and no air force” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
