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rhino

Report: Al-Qaida prisoners have ‘disappeared’

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Hitler's Nazi Germany had people "disappeared".
Stalin's Communist Russia had people "disappeared".
The Junta in Argentina had people "disappeared".
Poll Pot's Cambodia had people "disappeared".
Communist China has people “disappeared”.

I can’t believe that there are people on this board that are actually happy that their country – the land of the free – now may well be judged by history to fit into this category. That is one of the saddest indictments I have seen in a long time. Why don’t you question what your country is doing as opposed to trying to justify it?



It's not surprising at all; look at which countries still execute juveniles (there are only 4 left, and the US is one of them). The US has executed more juveniles than all other nations combined over the last 25 years. Exactly the same attitude prevails.



Three times is enemy action

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"Funny you would gripe about our forces not obeying the "rules" of combat but you won't obey the rules against name-calling on the forum..."

Medic!! WE need a medic over here!!!!;)

"Throughout the world, on any given day, a man, woman, or child is likely to be displaced, tortured, killed, or 'disappeared', at the hands of governments or armed political groups. More often than not, the United States shares the blame." -- Amnesty International, 1996

Deal! Or do ya'll still believe in the tooth fairy?
“Keep your elbow up!"

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Hitler's Nazi Germany had people "disappeared".
Stalin's Communist Russia had people "disappeared".
The Junta in Argentina had people "disappeared".
Poll Pot's Cambodia had people "disappeared".
Communist China has people “disappeared”.

I can’t believe that there are people on this board that are actually happy that their country – the land of the free – now may well be judged by history to fit into this category. That is one of the saddest indictments I have seen in a long time. Why don’t you question what your country is doing as opposed to trying to justify it?



It's not surprising at all; look at which countries still execute juveniles (there are only 4 left, and the US is one of them). The US has executed more juveniles than all other nations combined over the last 25 years. Exactly the same attitude prevails.



And the problem with executing juveniles is what?! The extent to which the system goes to prevent it, if they have committed an offense that warrants execution, so be it. Although I'm sure you are anti-death penalty. Honestly I don't think they execute quickly enough to be a true deterrant. Juveniles should be held to the same standard as adults. When proven they know what was going on, they stand the same penalty. I don't believe they are executing pre-teens!

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"Funny you would gripe about our forces not obeying the "rules" of combat but you won't obey the rules against name-calling on the forum..."

Medic!! WE need a medic over here!!!!;)

"Throughout the world, on any given day, a man, woman, or child is likely to be displaced, tortured, killed, or 'disappeared', at the hands of governments or armed political groups. More often than not, the United States shares the blame." -- Amnesty International, 1996

Deal! Or do ya'll still believe in the tooth fairy?



Do we share the blame because the "victims" have some ties to teh US?! Or because they are US citizens?! Or because they choose our citizens because it draws more news here and they know we have people over here who would bow down to them?!

The world likes to blame the US becasue we are a great nation. We are a super power and they all don't like it. SO, say we have something to do with everything going wrong in the world.

You are quite handy with quotes supporting you view on issues though!

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They torture because that is what they are. You can take all of your compassionate BS and see how far it would get you in war. They don't/won't give two $hits about what we think. They are hopin' to win based on your weaknesses.

Treating people the way you want to be treated only works when both parties have the same beliefs. Or you're gonna have one person gettin' his @$$ kicked all the time!



Exxxxxactly!

My point earlier was that some here say, "We have to show them, by example, how to treat prisoners/hostages/etc. humanely" -- as if the reason they torture and maim and kill innocent noncombatants is that they're simply unaware that this is wrong, and word of it being wrong just hasn't reached them yet. The problem with that theory is that there is no doubt they are already aware of those principles -- they just have no use for them, and won't abide by them!

-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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I can’t believe that there are people on this board that are actually happy that their country – the land of the free – now may well be judged by history to fit into this category. That is one of the saddest indictments I have seen in a long time. Why don’t you question what your country is doing as opposed to trying to justify it?



It's not surprising at all; look at which countries still execute juveniles (there are only 4 left, and the US is one of them). The US has executed more juveniles than all other nations combined over the last 25 years. Exactly the same attitude prevails.



And the problem with executing juveniles is what?! The extent to which the system goes to prevent it, if they have committed an offense that warrants execution, so be it. Although I'm sure you are anti-death penalty. Honestly I don't think they execute quickly enough to be a true deterrant. Juveniles should be held to the same standard as adults. When proven they know what was going on, they stand the same penalty. I don't believe they are executing pre-teens!



I have no problem, either, with the execution of 16 & 17 year old capital offenders. They may not have the maturity of a 25-year-old, for example, but that doesn't mean we should be unable to expect them to know murder is wrong, and punishable, and that they shouldn't commit it.

Today on "All Things Considered," (NPR) they were talking about that. They repeated some of the comments by USSC justices. They had commentary by others who speak on the subject of juvenile execution. Some of those people were so preposterously bleeding heart as to talk about "studies" that found that "the sense of moral judgment" is last to develop in a human being, so that apparently, according to them, it's unfair of us to hold 16 and 17 year olds to a standard of NOT MURDERING. They're shooting for a "cruel and unusual" exemption, which this does not fit, anyway.

You will never convince me that a 16 or 17 year old knows so much less about right and wrong than an 18 year old that he or she should not be held capitally accountable for murder.

-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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The U.S has signed the geneva convention and expect the Iraquies insurgents to follow it and not behead contractors, however the U.S itself will not follow the geneva convention.
You cannot have it both ways.



As far as I'm concerned, if two parties sign a convention/treaty, as soon as the first party backs out and won't uphold the terms of the treaty, the second party is relieved of being burdened with compliance as well.

That's how it works in the "social contract," as well. You and I agree to not harm or attack each other. But if you come to me to rob/beat/kill me unprovoked, I am no longer obligated to refrain from striking in a counterattack to preserve my own life.

-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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A little nervous laughter like you offer in response goes a long way in telling us how you feel, and what you take seriously and what you don't. I guess you don't take very seriously the fact that others observe that you sympathize with the torturers and murderers of innocents. So it would seem, anyway.



Oh, Dear Lord,
for once in my life beeing M. Tyson for just one minute.. that would be pure fun :)

:S



WTF are you talking about? Are you implying that you would really like to be a muscular brute and beat me up?

Why not just say that, instead of some cryptic junk about being Mike Tyson? :S

I guess your statement can't be taken as a personal attack because you didn't say you'd beat me up -- for all I know you think it'd be fun to be M. Tyson so that you could rape women... But it's pretty obvious what you meant.

Can't we keep this discourse civilized without letting our base desires cause it to descend into juvenile statements and implications of violent threats?

-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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As far as I'm concerned, if two parties sign a convention/treaty, as soon as the first party backs out and won't uphold the terms of the treaty, the second party is relieved of being burdened with compliance as well.



Memo to self: don't get involved in any sort of contractual agreement with PJ. He might decide I didn't fulfill (even if I thought it was) and then all bets are off.

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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To be fair - that is actually how contract works.

It is not how treaties work though. Treaties don't use the same set of rules as contracts, they're different legal concepts - a true case of compairing apples and oranges.

Perhaps the easiest way of comparing the two would be to think of te treaty as a contract between country A and the treaty itself.

The treaty can't break it's bargain - it's just a piece of paper. Even if another signatory to the treaty breaks their obligations that has no effect on you - you're still bound by your obligations to the treaty.

IE you don't owe obligations to other nations, but to the treaty. Think of it as A sells B his car. C steals B's money. B till owes A for the car - the theft of B's money has no effect on his contract with A.

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