Safire 3

[RichyR 0]

As these are available now, has anyone had a chance to jump one?

How does it compare to the Safire 2?

[gunsmokex 1]

*crickets*

I'm curious what the reviews are out there on the Safire 3. Or has no one really been able to get their hands on one?

[RichyR 0]

I'm trying to demo one this weekend. Will update.

[DiverDave 0]

anyone with experience to report yet?

[chips26 4]

I demoed a buddies 149 a couple weeks ago on a high pull, should get my 139 here in about a week.

I have nothing to compare it to in the same size I flew but a Pilot 150. It was better in every way. Faster, longer recovery arc, way more responsive on harness input. I can throw more in after I get mine and fly it for more than 1 jump.

[bodypilot90 0]

I have sold a couple and everyone is happy with the canopy. No one local has bought one yet. Crossfire 3 will be out before end of the year

[lyosha 50]

Can anyone out there compare it to a similar sized Sabre2?

[starky4011 0]

How did the demo go? How does it compare to a Saf 2? Anyone else have any reviews on the Saf 3?

[OXN 0]

lyosha

Can anyone out there compare it to a similar sized Sabre2?

Will be able to shortly- mine is currently en route from NZ. I'll update this thread with info once I've got a few jumps on her.

[chips26 4]

Have about 2 dozen jumps on my 139 now.

Brakes: can hang in deep brakes all day no issue, toggle turns are mushy , wouldnt say super responsive, brake lines are pretty long (I'd say compare about the same to my old Storm)

Rears: doesnt take much pressure to flatten out for the long spots, gotten back from some REALLY long spots on mine just fine. More responsive than the toggles.

Fronts: Higher riser pressure than my pilot, oodles more power in them though. Longer recovery arc than my pilot 150 by a long shot. Definitely can get some good surf out of it.

Flare: flares for days super easy to shut down, long stroke though that I would also compare to a Storm.

Harness: You can fly this thing on harness input alone, way more sensitive than anything I have flown so far.

Openings: Soft, on heading, a little snively, tucking the nose shortens that up though.

Otherwise immensely fun canopy that I hope to keep for a long time. Docile as hell when you need it to be and can get aggressive quick if you get on it. I'm loading mine at about 1.25-1.3.

[gunsmokex 1]

chips26

Have about 2 dozen jumps on my 139 now.

Brakes: can hang in deep brakes all day no issue, toggle turns are mushy , wouldnt say super responsive, brake lines are pretty long (I'd say compare about the same to my old Storm)

Rears: doesnt take much pressure to flatten out for the long spots, gotten back from some REALLY long spots on mine just fine. More responsive than the toggles.

Fronts: Higher riser pressure than my pilot, oodles more power in them though. Longer recovery arc than my pilot 150 by a long shot. Definitely can get some good surf out of it.

Flare: flares for days super easy to shut down, long stroke though that I would also compare to a Storm.

Harness: You can fly this thing on harness input alone, way more sensitive than anything I have flown so far.

Openings: Soft, on heading, a little snively, tucking the nose shortens that up though.

Otherwise immensely fun canopy that I hope to keep for a long time. Docile as hell when you need it to be and can get aggressive quick if you get on it. I'm loading mine at about 1.25-1.3.

Thanks for the great review! Sounds like you might want to shorten your brake lines though? Did you do a toggle stall? If so how long did it take to stall?

[chips26 4]

gunsmokex

***Have about 2 dozen jumps on my 139 now.

Brakes: can hang in deep brakes all day no issue, toggle turns are mushy , wouldnt say super responsive, brake lines are pretty long (I'd say compare about the same to my old Storm)

Rears: doesnt take much pressure to flatten out for the long spots, gotten back from some REALLY long spots on mine just fine. More responsive than the toggles.

Fronts: Higher riser pressure than my pilot, oodles more power in them though. Longer recovery arc than my pilot 150 by a long shot. Definitely can get some good surf out of it.

Flare: flares for days super easy to shut down, long stroke though that I would also compare to a Storm.

Harness: You can fly this thing on harness input alone, way more sensitive than anything I have flown so far.

Openings: Soft, on heading, a little snively, tucking the nose shortens that up though.

Otherwise immensely fun canopy that I hope to keep for a long time. Docile as hell when you need it to be and can get aggressive quick if you get on it. I'm loading mine at about 1.25-1.3.

Thanks for the great review! Sounds like you might want to shorten your brake lines though? Did you do a toggle stall? If so how long did it take to stall?

At this point im used to it. My first canopy was a Storm and long brake lines and deep flare were the nature of the beast with it. As long as I can punch out a flare thats all I care about, other than that I mainly use riser input to fly. It will not toggle stall unless I take wraps.

[hackish 8]

I know someone who just got a safire3 129 so we're going to swap canopies a few times and compare against my safire2 129. Should be able to give some good feedback.

-Michael

[DiverDave 0]

Thanks - looking forward to your review

[hackish 8]

I only managed to put 1 jump on it. It's a bit tough to give a complete review this way. The opening wasn't hugely different, maybe a bit firmer but it's hard to compare a single opening. I can really only say it was a 'different progression'.

Overall, it is a lot like my safire 2. It feels like it's trimmed flatter. I consistently enter the pattern at 800' but when I was ready to turn into final I was noticeably higher. Initial front riser pressure was noticeably higher.

On landing I'd say the flare was a tiny bit better, but also hard to compare as the brake lines on the new one were too long. I held them by the toggle nose to get the same feel as mine.

I feel like they may have fixed the annoying slider flapping that all the Icarus canopies I've jumped seem to exhibit (I frequently have to make shorter slider drawstrings for people).

The stall was nice and progressive and since I opened high, I had time to stall it a few times. I did the same exercise on my own canopy the previous jump and I think the safire3 stalls a little more consistently. I also feel like it's a bit more controllable in that mushy slow flight before the stall and I expect this translates well to the end of the flare.

I looked quickly at the construction of this "powerband" thing to see if it was just marketing droids doing their thing. I do feel like it is a real innovation that gives a small incremental improvement but not a game changer.

The seam itself was folded and double needle stitched. Plenty strong with a decent seam allowance but I wonder if the exposed edge will fray poorly after 500 jumps. I wish it were felled but I can understand a need to keep stretch and bulk down at a critical point in the airfoil.

Would I sell my safire 2 and upgrade to a safire 3? I don't think so. The safire 3 is better in a number of respects but not hugely better overall. It's just more "refined". If I was in the market to buy a lightly used versus new then yes, I'd buy the new design versus a safire 2 if a dealer still had one.

I'll ask Adam, who is also an Icarus dealer to post his review as he jumped mine for comparison.

-Michael

[ctrph8 0]

I got my 139 a few weeks ago and have put about 10 jumps on it.

I opened high and played around with the stall point and how it flies in deep brakes. This canopy is perfectly happy flying in deep brakes. I thought for sure that I would be able to do a full stall but even with my long arms, it never quite got there. I got to that point where it was just about to go but it never really fell back and I didn't take a wrap to see how far this could go. I could turn and maintain a heading in VERY deep brakes. The lines came trimmed with a loop for the toggle and the brake lines have just the right amount of bow in them in full flight. Front riser pressure was average, heavier than a Crossfire.

That being said, the landings were zippier than I had expected with a front riser 180ish turn. Didn't try rear risers on any of those landings. On one of them I rolled out too high and lost all of my speed. It wasn't a pretty landing but it set me down just fine.

The openings have been brisk! I've never been slammed Saber 1 style but they have been a lot harder than my beloved Crossfire. I may get a smaller pilot chute to see if that helps. I'm also wondering if this will mellow out after a few dozen jumps. The openings were all reasonably on heading.

Overall, it seems like it is a super stable canopy that can go fast for what it is or slow and steady. I didn't get into any ugly turbulence but it feels like it would be pretty stable when things get squirrelly.

[Joellercoaster 6]

ctrph8

The openings have been brisk! I've never been slammed Saber 1 style but they have been a lot harder than my beloved Crossfire.

This actually sounds good to me. I loved the Crossfires I've borrowed from people at different times, but I did keep wishing they opened a little quicker

Will be watching for the arrival of the Crossfire3 closely!

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[adam.abitbol 0]

So I just replaced my Safire2 149 with a downsize to a Saf3 129. I also had the chance to try Michael's (hackish) Safire2 129 on a back to back jump.
I am loaded at 1.51 on the 129.

Full disclosure: I am a dealer for all 3 of the major brands and have been for several years. Everyone I've sold Safire3's to so far them to loves them.

What I noticed about the 3 vs the 2 after jumping it several times in a row:

The openings are fairly consistent. They are on heading, the snivel is long enough to be comfortable, but shorter than the Safire2.

The Safire2 has a steeper glide path than the 3, what I mean by this is that the 2 tends to lose altitude more quickly then the 3.

Front risers: the 3 is more responsive than the 2, (I'd say about 15-20% more)

Back risers: The 3 is much more responsive to rear riser pressure than the 2. You can easily control the canopy with them, but putting medium strength on them will get you to the stall point. I was surprised at how little effort it took, but am actually pleasantly surprised.

Brake lines: I prefer to have shorter brake lines, I had shortened the lines on my Safire2 by about 4 inches. I feel that the Safire3 would need about 2-3 as well to be where I like them.

Toggle imput: The Safire2 and 3 have similar reactions, I really didn't notice much of a difference between the two in the sky.

Recovery arc: I find that the arc is longer on the Saf3 then the 2. The most common complaint I have received from people was that the Saf2's arc was too short, this has improved that.

Flare: I can hold a flare going for days on the safire3, it flies quite well even when at nearly a full stop.

Line twists: The 3 flies quite straight while twisted (See below)

I posted a few test openings on youtube, 2 of which were in line twists. All 4 openings were while wearing a wingsuit.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Wd7fVwGIzHiKVlnfxkgiQ

Overall opinion so far: I love my Safire3. I've had a lot of fun flying it. I'm happy I replaced my safire2 for the 3.

Should you sell your Safire2 to buy the 3? It depends on what you want to get out of your canopy.
But in my opinion, it is an all around better canopy than the 2.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.skydiveaddiction.com
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[starky4011 0]

Thanks for the review! Looks like it has flare for days looking at your landing video. I should have mine by the end of the month, can't wait to fly it even more now!

[LucaD 0]

Hey Adam,
just wondering about your thoughts on how the recovery arc compares to the sabre2?

I have the saf3, and flies really well, but I have a feeling it recovers way too quickly from a dive, while on the other hand I heard a lot of experienced people say that the sabre2 is the canopy you want to slowly start the long process towards swooping.

Do you think I should swap the saf3 for a sabre2, given that I do want to start working on high(ish) performance landings?

[achikin 0]

Does anyone know exactly what that "powerband" is for?

[jumpwally 0]

How is this canopy diff from the S Fire ?

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Blis 1]

jumpwally

How is this canopy diff from the S Fire ?

Sfire and safire 3 are different canopies made by different manufacturers...

NZ aerosports -> safire 3, Icarus canopies -> S fire

[jumpwally 0]

cool..thx much, but still how diff are they ?

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[LucaD 0]

I have never flown a Safire, but I have flown a Safire 2 and the Safire 3 has better harness response, better toggle response and front / rear riser response as well. The powerband seems to keep the pressure better even in situations of slight turbulence (I find the Safire 3 a bit more stable overall). The glide is similar - not steep at all, so they are in the same range (sort of beginner to intermediate pilot, depending on the wingload), but the Safire3 performs better overall.