Delicate Eloy-Realted Questions

[Gato 0]

Does anyone have an opinion on whether either of the recent incidents at Eloy would have been survivable if a Skyhook had been employed? Did either of them have one, and were unable to cut away anyway?

I don't mean to offend anyone, but after seeing the Skyhook 100ft cutaway video, it seems a relevant issue. In considering a new container for myself, and taking into account traffic avoidance/collision factors, a rig equipped with this device sounds like a good idea.

My apologies if I'm being inappropriate. I realize that no piece of gear is a substitute for high-level awareness and keeping one's head on a swivel, and that sometimes, shit happens regardless of how we've prepared for it.

Gato

T.I.N.S.

[monkycndo 0]

Both pilots fired their reserve without cutting away the main. The skyhook only works if the main is cut away. It would not have helped.

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[sraja 0]

Just a note - the 100ft cutaway was with a base rig for reserve - slider down. The normal skydiving reserve is different.

[sundevil777 102]

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Both pilots fired their reserve without cutting away the main. The skyhook only works if the main is cut away. It would not have helped.

I think the implication is that the response to the situation may be different if you have a skyhook.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Remster 30]

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Both pilots fired their reserve without cutting away the main. The skyhook only works if the main is cut away. It would not have helped.

I think the implication is that the response to the situation may be different if you have a skyhook.

Someonbe I was talking to the dat after the 2nd fatality mentioned the skyhook too.

Considering both collisions/misses happened in the 200 foot range, you'd have to realize whats going on, analyse the situation, and make the decision to cutaway extremely fast.

Its a scary idea to cutaway a canopy at 50-150 feet in order to save your life... I really dont think it should be answer or even an alternative to the situation.

Remster

[LouDiamond 1]

No. In both of those accidents a skyhook would not have helped as the main canopies were not cut away by either of the 2 jumpers in the first accident as the altitude of both jumpers after the entanglement was +/-100 feet. The 2nd fatality did not involve a reserve deployment nor would have one prevented what happened. The skyhook would not have benefited anyone in those 2 fatalities.

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[klafollette 0]

I have a Vector with Skyhook, and had one spinning mal cutaway with it. Can't for sure say how fast it opened, but it felt like a couple hundred feet at most.

Having the Skyhook has changed my thinking under canopy a bit. While in the pattern and somebody is uncomfortably close, I find myself thinking that I could cutaway below 2-300 feet and at least have a chance if something ugly happened. But as it was said, if you were on final, that would require an instant decision, figuring out what happened, that it's not recoverable, and decide to cutaway. If I was below 500 ft, in the heat of the moment, I might just decide to go with the reserve and get as much nylon as I could out there. Even with the skyhook, to go for the cutaway below 500 ft, I'd have to look up and find a absolute streaming ball of shit. Then I'd say a quick prayer to Bill Booth, and pull the red.

As I write this, I guess one thing to consider is the effectiveness of the Skyhook to accelerate the deployment if the main is not exerting a significant amount of drag. That's part of the principle, that the Main acts as a drogue to pull out the reserve. If the main is so much of a mess after a collision, it may not have enough drag to speed up the reserve deploy at such a low altitude.

[bch7773 0]

short version... No

long version
I'd guess that at 200 feet, having to make a decision, then having to execute the decision, by the time you even reach down and pull the cutaway, you'd be below the survivable altitude even with a skyhook.

and like someone else brought up, you need a reserve packed for an extremely fast opening anyways, i.e. packed slider down
and the main had to have enough drag too.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[wildcard451 0]

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Then I'd say a quick prayer to Bill Booth, and pull the red...

I do hope for your sake that you have another handle in your EPs that you plan on using.

[billvon 2,998]

>I do hope for your sake that you have another handle in your EPs that you plan on using.

If the RSL fails at 500 feet, the skyhook fails too, and he's probably dead anyway.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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If the main is so much of a mess after a collision, it may not have enough drag to speed up the reserve deploy at such a low altitude.

Naw, it'd still have plenty of drag. If it can spin you, you got a lot of force working over your head.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Does anyone have an opinion on whether either of the recent incidents at Eloy would have been survivable if a Skyhook had been employed?

Not likely. Larger canopies improve your chances, though.

[klafollette 0]

I'd have to go back and read the details on the Eloy incidents, but thought that I read that at least one had attempted to deploy their reserve, with no mention of cutting away. So at what altitude (skyhook or not) does it make sense to attempt a cutaway, vs. just deploying the reserve to get as much nylon and drag out there, even if the reserve doesn't completely open. Does the Skyhook change that altitude at all?

If you get clipped on final, only a few hundred feet up, and the main is still there, but lines are broken, panels blown, etc. it may still give you some drag. If you're too low for the reserve to fully open, should you pop it anyway without cutting away your main? Sure, theres a high risk of entanglement, but if your main is a mess, wouldn't at least getting reserve out there in any fashion help slow you down enough to at least give you a shot at surviving?

Can't remember off the top of my head, but aren't reserves TSO'd for a maximum distance to open, I tried looking up the TSO C23c regs, but couldn't find anything related to opening distance. For some reason 400ft sticks in my head. If that is a standard, is that from terminal speeds or from a slow decent of a functioning main?

[Pulse 0]

It's nice to always think there's a way out. But every piece of equipment has it's 'envelope'. From everything I'm hearing, it sounds like these accidents happened outside the envelope for ANY emergency parachutes.

"Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled."

[JohnMitchell 16]

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It's nice to always think there's a way out. But every piece of equipment has it's 'envelope'. From everything I'm hearing, it sounds like these accidents happened outside the envelope for ANY emergency parachutes.

I should clarify . . . I meant larger main canopy. In just about any life and death situation, having more fabric over your head can make a difference as to how bad it will be. Larger, slower canopies tend to recover faster from collisions, reinflate better, instead of just spinning in. IMHO.

[Pulse 0]

It could also be theorized the slower speeds would allow more time to avoid such collisions in the first place.

"Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled."

[JohnMitchell 16]

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It could also be theorized the slower speeds would allow more time to avoid such collisions in the first place.

Yes, that too. I kind of miss the peace and quiet of the canopy ride back when.