Would you plead for your life?

[LouDiamond 1]

Most of what you speak of is based on religious violations within a family in order to maintain family honor or within their society norms. The situation in the past and recent past dealing with female westerners has always resulted in their being returned and usually well taken care of, if not just left alone entirely for the duration of their captivity and segregated from the males in their group.

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the code of conduct isnt exactly fair game here Lou. I would try to follow it but they arent using the geneva convention in this war; we are

JT, I think your confused here. The CoC is legal guideance for military members and has nothing to do with the GC specifically as it applies to all forms of captivity. The CoC is followed regardless of wheather the captors adhere to the GC or not. In this instance , Article III is what would be relevant to this thread in how a military member should handle this situation. I know you have SERE specialists available to you and they can explain it in detail that I will not cover here.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Tonto 1]

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sitting here all safe in the USA

You gotta see that comment from the outside!

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[jumpinjackflash 0]

Bingo

Not saying I wouldn't freak and plead.

My preference though would be to antagonize them into a fight.

Sounds like macho bullshit, and it probably is, but I'd want to at least get a shot at em.

So, I'd tell them they were sleazeball wuss's that are too frightened to fight fair, and see if any of them wanted to take a poke before the debowled me.


lol


Seriously though, my thought at that point, or dream if you will, would be to take a couple of the rotten bastards with me.



jjf

It's a gas, gas, gas...

[cyric77 0]

It's hard to say what I would do in that situation, but it would certainly take a lot of "takes" or sedative medication to get me to cooperate in a video. I'd much rather piss someone off and be excuted by bullets, than be beheaded by a buck knife. Pretty easy choice actrually, especially if they dressed me in an orange jumpsuit. I'm not willing to take my chances and cooperate in the hope that I might be one of the lucky ones who have been released. I think we also have to consider that fact that most of us have not experienced that kind of fear and terror, which leads to more questions as to how we would react in that particular situation.

[pajarito 0]

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I'm reading the lastest hostage story. The have a photo of this woman crying and saying how she's pleading for her life on this video tape. Most likely the damands won't be met and something tragic may happen to her as it has happened in the recent past.

Knowing that your country has a no negotiation policy as far as hostages would you still plead for your life on video?

I'm not sure what I would do. I think I may just plead like everyone else. I can pull the macho ego stuff and say I wouldn't give them the satisfaction but I think with nothing to lose I would be begging.

You get tortured enough and you'll plead for your life. If tortured enough, you'll eventually tell them everything you know. Your machismo will go right out the window pretty quick. Or it should, if you're smart. Every person has their breaking point. It's how you control yourself to that point that's important. However, I wouldn't look down upon that person because they did break down and plead for their life. You don't know until you're in that situation how you’ll react so it’s pointless to speculate and say you’ll be tough. Making a video may be what keeps them from torturing you more. It may also be what extends your life for whatever time you have left. You never know what could happen. Despite what we’ve seen so far with most, they might let you go free. You may hold out long enough for a hostage rescue attempt to take place. You may be able to mislead them with false information and eventually make an escape. What shows up in the video may aid in locating your position for a rescue attempt.

[rickjump1 0]

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sitting here all safe in the USA

You gotta see that comment from the outside!

t

My company has employed two helicopter pilots from South Africa. Both said they left home because they felt unsafe because of the lack of law and order. One did return home to SA after his American wife took him to the cleaners; the other remains.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Tonto 1]

Yeah, but that's just it.. "Felt unsafe." Where ever you go, there you are! I'm constantly being told how dangerous it is where I am, but the broken bodies I see, I see mostly on the road to work, or rolling about on the DZ. When I watch movies, or TV, the US looks dangerous. When I see sports fans being killed with pepper spray shot into their eyeball - it seems risky. 75 year old women Tazered by cops and you guys think it's ok.. and that was just off this site, yesterday. We're mostly familiar with the risk around us and are accustomed to "other places" being dangerous. I've been threatened with death by US police more than my any other element in the world, simply through protocol differences. In SA, when stopped by police, you get out of the car and walk to their drivers window. Try that in the US and see what happens to you. It really is quite scary to see someone who's pointing a gun at you and who's obviously scared shitless.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I'm reading the lastest hostage story. The have a photo of this woman crying and saying how she's pleading for her life on this video tape. Most likely the damands won't be met and something tragic may happen to her as it has happened in the recent past.

Knowing that your country has a no negotiation policy as far as hostages would you still plead for your life on video?

I'm not sure what I would do. I think I may just plead like everyone else. I can pull the macho ego stuff and say I wouldn't give them the satisfaction but I think with nothing to lose I would be begging.

Like you, these brutal murders have got me thinking as well -- on just this topic, too.

If, as you say, I had no possible reason to expect that my government or anyone else would negotiate with the terrorists to secure my safe release (as I feel they should not), I would like to think I would not give these pieces of shit the satisfaction of having me plead in vain for my life.

I would like to think I would spit on them as my last act before finding peace within myself and dying.

And like you, I have no idea if I would be able to remain so calm and resolute in the face of my own impending murder.

It's a sad, sick thing all the way around.

I can't help but feel it is worth mentioning, though, that in the case of this CARE lady, the first t.v. news story I saw about her said that she was known for declining armed protection -- and that may have ended up costing her ... well, whatever it ends up costing her. I feel she made a silly, futile "gesture" by declining armed protection. What, did she think that the nobility of doing so would impress terrorists into not kidnaping her? I also note that not a single newspaper story I have read since then has mentioned the lack of weaponry of her escorts. (But the papers in this area are notoriously liberal, and do not like pointing out that guns can save lives.)

-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I would bet a dollar to a dime that she is not harmed due to the fact that she is a woman. Having an understanding of their culture, how they percieve woman and past events all point to an safe return. Killing a woman would be a very frowned apon thing in their culture.One can only hope I am right.

Waitaminute... aren't we talking about a culture that subjugates women; that considers them chattel; that sentences them to death by stoning for adultery; that regards them as inferior to men; that engages in "honor killings" of their own women for being victims of rape because it "dishonors" the family??

This is the culture that you think will spare a woman's life? Why on earth would you reach that conclusion? I come to the exact opposite conclusion based on what we know of the extremist muslim culture's views of women.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I dont think I would let them get me to beg. I would try my damndest to escape( or not to get caught at all).

Would "not get caught at all" possibly include having your escorts be armed, especially if you were a particularly high-profile target like the head of CARE?

I sympathize with the woman's plight, but damned if the fact that she had some sort of stated conscientious objection to having armed protection did not contribute to the ease with which she was taken...

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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You get tortured enough and you'll plead for your life. If tortured enough, you'll eventually tell them everything you know. Your machismo will go right out the window pretty quick.

I would like to think that once I realized that my body was ruined (by torture, amputations, whatever) and also that I was certainly going to be killed, I would be able to steel myself to the understanding that I would soon die, and accept it, and be able to will myself to resist and confound them until my death. I don't know if I could do that, but I hope that I would if I had the need.

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Or it should, if you're smart. Every person has their breaking point. It's how you control yourself to that point that's important. However, I wouldn't look down upon that person because they did break down and plead for their life. You don't know until you're in that situation how you’ll react so it’s pointless to speculate and say you’ll be tough.

I agree, which is why I certainly can't fault those who have pleaded in the past.

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Making a video may be what keeps them from torturing you more. It may also be what extends your life for whatever time you have left.

Again, I wonder if you can resign yourself to disassociate the pain of torture if you have mentally made peace with losing your body for all time. I think it's possible.

I also question the notion of "extending your life" in this situation -- why would you want to? To live a few days more among stinking filthy degenerate religious extremist murderers? "Oooh! Oooh! Extend my life, please!" No, thank you. I would fight with every fiber of my being to do everything against what they wish me to do, as long as I was still sane and rational.

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You never know what could happen. Despite what we’ve seen so far with most, they might let you go free.

Cooperate with this scum on the preposterously remote chance that you'll be like, the one dude they decide not to kill? I don't think Mr. Bigley didn't cooperate. They killed him anyway.

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You may hold out long enough for a hostage rescue attempt to take place. You may be able to mislead them with false information and eventually make an escape. What shows up in the video may aid in locating your position for a rescue attempt.

WHAT?! What hostage rescue attempt? In all the killings they have done so far, has there been ANY indication that we are gradually finding out where they are doing these murders?!

And let's say you do escape. Why would "what shows up in the video aid in locating your position for a rescue attempt"?! Like they're gonna RELEASE a video that shows a street sign at an intersection, or a particular identifiable building?! They have control over the release of their own videos -- it's not like it's on live television without a delay, dude. If they saw something in their own video that gave away their location, they'd shoot another video, but they wouldn't release that one!!

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Skyrad 0]

Death comes in many ways and can be long and drawn out or pretty quick. I'm not sure if it would take a brave person or a bloody idiot not to do as they are told. First rule of survival in a hostage stiuation is don't piss off your captors. As this woman is not millitary (That would be a whole different matter) then talking seems the sensible thing to do. As it goes there seems to be some hope that she hasn't been taken by Islamic extreamists. Her hair remains uncovered (female hostages taken previously have been made to cover it) and shes not wearing a red jumpsuit. So the chances are good that she has been taken for financial gain.
I've gone through a mock execution, I didn't know at the time that I would live through it. I didn't plead for my life, I just waited for the bang. However if I were threatened with having my head hacked off in a prolonged hostage situation then for the same reasons previously mentioned by Pajarito I proberbly would.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

don't worry Wendy you're petite, I'm sure you wouldn't take more than one refil

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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If I'm certain that I'm going to die, I'll do whatever in order to piss those mofo off, they'll kill me faster, and deny them the satisfaction of "advertising" their "power"

Here Here!
My sentiments EXACTLY
I will not plead for my life in a death death situation. There is absolutely NO reason to give my captors the satisfaction. F&@*ck you hostage takers!

[LouDiamond 1]

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Waitaminute... aren't we talking about a culture that subjugates women;

Obviously you didn't take the time to read this thread all the way through otherwise you would have seen where I addressed this in response to Quade's post.

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WHAT?! What hostage rescue attempt? In all the killings they have done so far, has there been ANY indication that we are gradually finding out where they are doing these murders?!

And let's say you do escape. Why would "what shows up in the video aid in locating your position for a rescue attempt"?! Like they're gonna RELEASE a video that shows a street sign at an intersection, or a particular identifiable building?! They have control over the release of their own videos -- it's not like it's on live television without a delay, dude. If they saw something in their own video that gave away their location, they'd shoot another video, but they wouldn't release that one!!

-Jeffrey

Well lets just say that every clue is useful and that there are people devoting a lot of time and energy trying to get people in these situations back safely. You would not believe some of the resources that are tapped when trying to get people back.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[billvon 2,991]

Previous post deleted. From the forum rules:

Posts that contain material that we deem to be blatantly or unnecessarily racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, pornographic, or otherwise offensive, will be removed.

[Milo 0]

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They definitely do not abide by the Geneva convention agreement

And they do not believe any US troops abide by the Geneva Convention, because their press has been saturated with the Abu Ghraib and Gitmo abuses of the Geneva Convention practiced by US troops and the US administration.

If it were me... I hope I wouldn't beg, But I'd probably do whatever it would take to stay alive as long as possible in the hope I'd find a way to escape, like Thomas Hamill did.

[gordy 0]

Absolutely.....would rather face the lighter than give them the satisfaction!

[peregrinerose 0]

Intellectually, I would hope that I would have the dignity and stubborness to not plead. Realistically, I've never been tortured, threatened with death, beaten to that extent, etc. Real life and imagining things are not the same. So I'd have to go with an adamant 'I don't know what I'd do.' And I hope that I never need to find out either.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[happythoughts 0]

Torture? I'd give in. There is no point in suffering and you can't win.

Pleading? The purpose is to extend your life until an event occurs that will free you. I would always try to position myself for an agressive move.

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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I'd make them shoot me while trying to escape and/or kill them myself. I might not have a hope of succeeding, but I think I'd rather be shot than beheaded with a knife.

Yep, I agree......I think I would do my best to turn into an animal and try as hard as I can to kill as many of them as I could......I want them to say to themselves afterwards.....Damn that guy was not worth the trouble!

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[Zoter 0]

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I wouldn't be so sure that the kidnappers were never approached by the UK government regarding some kind of negociation.

Thats kinda an unfair statement......GB policy on this no different in its enforcement finality from US policy.....can you be just as confident that the US Gov. did not have any 'backdoor' talks to secure the US hostage/victims release?.....
I dont think you can be......but I am sure most Americans 'accept' its the policy so thats the way they play it........its no different for the Brits or any other country that enforce that policy

In fact I believe iin Mr Bigleys unfortunate case it was the Irish Government only who attempted to make 'first contact' with the Terror cell.

If a country is going to enter into talks to free these hostages...I'm pretty sure its going to be reasonably apparant in the outcome of the situation.......eg The 'Italian Job' with the two young women

[funks 1]

bottom line is nobody knows how they would react in this situation until they were actually in it...i bet we would all be surprised how many of us would turn into blubbering cry babies if we were actually in this type of situation

[bch7773 0]

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bottom line is nobody knows how they would react in this situation until they were actually in it...i bet we would all be surprised how many of us would turn into blubbering cry babies if we were actually in this type of situation

I totally agree. Its easy to say "I wouldn't give them the satisfaction, I would fight back, etc". But until you are there, you don't know.
Hell, i don't know if I would beg for my life or attack them or just pass out from fear.
And I damn well hope that I am never in that situation to find out.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Deuce 1]

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I'd almost be tempted to provoke them and get it over quickly.

I don't think you could pull that off, Q. The whole provocative thing.